Can UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer survive after these election results? | BBC Question Time

0:00 Can Kier star survive these election results?

0:06 Robert genre.

0:09 Well, let's take a second to step back and remind ourselves that most

0:13 of these elections wouldn't have even

0:16 happened if Nigel Farage hadn't taken Karma,

0:19 the Labor government to court and the Conservative Party that was

0:23 uh in cahoots with them and forced them to happen.

0:26 So, those people would not have had their vote in the first place.

0:30 And we can now see why why people tried to deny you your vote

0:36 because the results that have come through over the course of the day

0:40 have shown that this is I believe the beginning of the end

0:44 of the two old parties that have run this country for so long.

0:50 And millions of people have turned away because they feel

0:55 that both of those parties have let the country down.

0:58 not just in the last two years

1:00 but over many years that living standards are stagnating,

1:04 that immigration is out of control, that our high streets uh are hollowed out,

1:09 that crime in cities like London are too great and

1:13 a lot of this under the Conservatives when you were

1:15 in power and when you were in the part of the government.

1:17 This is a reflection on politics.

1:19 That is true, is it not?

1:20 It is absolutely Fiona.

1:21 This is a reflection on the way we've been governed for a very long time.

1:25 I don't think our country has been well

1:27 governed for most of my adult lifetime and I I take my share of responsibility

1:31 for that and people are voting for something different now.

1:35 They want to see real change and that is one of the reasons why millions

1:40 of people have voted reform and they voted

1:43 reform from the Welsh valleys to the highlands

1:45 of Scotland from England's industrial towns and cities

1:49 to the Shire and the counties of East

1:51 Anglia because reform offers something different from the old

1:55 politics which is seen to have failed people.

1:58 And to answer your question directly, where are we left tonight?

2:01 Well, I believe we're left with a lame duck government

2:05 run by a lame duck prime minister who doesn't have

2:08 any ideas how to fix the challenges that you and millions

2:11 of other people are facing right now in the country.

2:14 And whether Labour backbenches or indeed cabinet ministers like

2:17 Peter choose to get rid of him or not, it's not going to make a difference.

2:21 We need a general election.

2:23 I think a general election is inevitable.

2:26 And when it comes, what we've learned

2:28 in the last 48 hours is you can get change.

2:32 You just have to vote for it.

2:34 And party-like reform is waiting to take

2:37 the country in a better direction and to ensure

2:40 that we can finally fix the challenges that we've faced for far too long.

2:48 Pier silence.

2:48 Wow.

2:50 Not so fast.

2:51 Reform.

2:52 Um, yeah, of course he should go.

2:55 I mean, let's be honest.

2:56 This has been an absolute shambles.

2:59 A shambles.

3:00 Let's do a quick test.

3:02 Who here feels better off under Labor?

3:06 Nobody.

3:07 Not one of you.

3:09 Not one of you.

3:10 They came into power two years ago, under two years ago,

3:13 with a thumping majority and all this talk of change and hope.

3:18 They'd had 14 years to think about what they would do if they came into power.

3:23 this Labor government 14 years and what did they do

3:27 day one Karma says things are going to get worse

3:31 before they get better well he wasn't kidding he wasn't

3:34 kidding we should have taken him at his word then

3:36 so is Nigel Farah the answer as Robert well the point I'm going to make is

3:39 since then we've had a series of broken promises

3:43 and U-turns on an unprecedented scale it's almost like

3:48 every policy initiative Labour came up with they've immediately done

3:51 a screeching U-turn when the public and has

3:54 gone what is this nonsense and so it's been

3:56 in my lengthy period in the media 40 years

4:00 or so this has been the most shambolic government I have

4:04 ever seen and that is why you have now

4:08 reform surging around the country I don't think it's

4:12 partic I give them credit it's in a few

4:15 years that they've done this it's an amazing achievement

4:17 I give them due credit um but the difficult

4:20 part for them will come now because I don't

4:22 I think people are voting for reform's plethora of beautifully

4:27 thoughtout policies because we don't know most of them.

4:29 We know what they think about immigration

4:31 and people can have their view about that.

4:34 Uh but we also know that they are a product

4:36 of persistently failing governments now going back nearly two decades.

4:41 And you're seeing the same with the emergence of the Greens.

4:44 And you're seeing all sorts of parties getting some

4:47 traction away from the main parties because we all think,

4:50 don't we really a stain on both their houses, a stain on both their houses.

4:55 And I think that if reform do end up with the keys to number 10,

5:00 as you said, and I think Starmer, if he if he's watching,

5:03 he should do the decent thing now and just resign and admit his culpability.

5:07 But if you do, the really difficult questions

5:10 are going to start coming thick and fast.

5:11 And I would start with this one.

5:13 Only last week, reform, who we're told are going to be this breath of fresh air,

5:18 a change, a new hope for the country.

5:21 We discovered their leader Nigel Farage gets a 5 million pound

5:26 bung from some bloke in Thailand who has a crypto interest.

5:31 What is that about?

5:32 And why are we not talking about that more?

5:37 I will come and ask you about that.

5:40 We'll get to that and I'll come to you Peter in a minute.

5:43 Let's just hear a bit before.

5:44 We will definitely get to that man in the stripy t-shirt.

5:46 Um so if we're hoping for improvement,

5:50 what how are we going to get that with reform

5:52 if all the majority of their MPs are former

5:55 Conservative MPs and every single MP that they've got

5:58 is a former member at least of the Conservative party.

6:01 Okay.

6:02 Man in the green shirt.

6:04 from the history that we've had,

6:06 we've we were in a conservative government for a long time

6:09 where the leadership changed and changed

6:11 and changed and nothing actually changed.

6:14 So why don't we not just stick with one term with one prime minister to allow

6:18 us to see if we can actually make a difference in less than two years.

6:22 Peter, that is presumably your view.

6:26 I can see I mean there's something like nine labor

6:28 MPs now have come out and said Kama needs to go.

6:31 a number of candidate members are now rowing in behind him.

6:35 I think it is the point.

6:36 But let let me just let me just be upfront with people about the scale

6:40 of what's happened and how we are responding to it and just acknowledge in every

6:44 election political parties and those of us

6:47 who are in leadership positions within political parties

6:49 get a tap on the shoulder

6:50 from the electorate and it's either positive or negative.

6:53 We have just had the rug pulled from underneath us.

6:56 I mean, it's been an absolute catastrophe, hasn't it?

6:58 It's just what I just said.

6:59 Yes.

6:59 a total catastrophic.

7:00 I'm not I'm not I've just I'm not denying that.

7:02 I'm I'm actually just you know I want to preface

7:05 uh the start by acknowledging that uh we were voted

7:09 on on a land on landslide uh just a couple

7:12 of years ago because we had had a period of decline

7:15 in our country as a result of the financial crash

7:18 as a result of Brexit as a result of COVID a result

7:20 of Listrust's mini budget and the Tories and the way they

7:22 ran the country and people wanted us to halt the decline.

7:26 Now I accept that we have not managed to halt

7:30 the decline in a way that people feel in their p

7:32 pockets that they see in their communities and yes

7:36 in the opportunities that they have and they feel are before them.

7:41 That is what we have to change.

7:43 Uh I also accept the point that when we came in we did

7:46 a lot of tough stuff and we the things that we have been investing

7:50 in for the long term is

7:51 the investment in our infrastructure from northern powerhouse

7:54 rail to new runways to new reservoirs to a million and a half homes.

7:57 You also changed your mind on a lot of we will hang we will get there

8:01 but the benefits of the things we brought

8:02 in at the beginning are not being felt yet

8:05 but the tough stuff we did at the beginning and yes some of those U-turns we've

8:09 already accepted we should not have done and we

8:11 shouldn't have made mistakes in the first place.

8:13 Given the question is should Kama stay or should he go in your heart

8:17 do you seriously believe that Karma can win the next election for Labour?

8:22 Uh I don't think there is anything inevitable

8:24 about success or failure of anyone around this table.

8:27 We have seen the speed of which politics moves on.

8:31 No no it absolutely I do there.

8:36 Of course I do.

8:38 Of course I do.

8:38 There are lots of circumstances.

8:40 Anyone believe it?

8:43 uh there are lots of there are lots of potential outcomes.

8:46 Politics is coming at us very fast.

8:47 There are big challenges on the international uh front at the moment.

8:51 There are huge opportunities for our country and we are straining it a bit.

8:54 Now I accept we have to do better at grabbing the opportunities,

8:58 talking about the future,

9:00 making sure particularly when it comes to young people that those million

9:04 young people that we inherited that were out of work,

9:06 training uh and education, we get them into it and productive,

9:09 but those those key barriers to them succeeding

9:12 in life and feeling optimistic about the future,

9:15 we absolutely have to turn.

9:17 Let's hear from some of these people.

9:17 There's lots of hands up.

9:19 Um the woman at the front here you talk about young people I'm a second well

9:29 first year but I've done it twice in that time

9:35 the debt that I have accured from doing my degree

9:42 which people might find useless people might find whatever ever.

9:49 I do film and I have a disability and I've always been told you have

9:59 to get a degree to get anywhere because your start line is so much further back.

10:09 I can't really work a consistent parttime job.

10:17 I occasionally do.

10:20 I have, you know, that by the end of it, it's so burnt out.

10:27 And who is going to put that bill in 10 20 years time?

10:34 Me.

10:35 So why are we doing this where it's just compounding pressure and pressure

10:46 on everyone and I don't see a solve in Labor in conservatives in reform

10:56 in in any of the parties.

10:58 Okay.

10:58 No.

10:58 And that student debt is something that comes up a lot on this program.

11:01 There's a woman further back.

11:02 Let's hear from you.

11:04 Just going back to the question about whether or not K star can survive.

11:08 I think we've all seen in the public at this point that he's very

11:11 comfortable with other people to lose their jobs and for him to keep his.

11:14 Um so I think he he probably will be able to survive and also

11:18 the fact that there isn't a viable

11:19 alternative in the government at the moment either.

11:22 Just something from what Pierers also mentioned,

11:25 you guys had 14 years in opposition.

11:29 It's just not good enough.

11:31 Maybe you've been held to higher account than other governments

11:33 because we were all used to Tory malaise for so long,

11:36 but it's it's just not okay.

11:39 And whether or not this tap in the shoulder will shake the government up

11:43 into actually committing to something and not you turning on it in a week,

11:46 I think all of us can appreciate if there's a policy that isn't popular.

11:51 I'd rather a politician have an opinion and stick to it than U-turn.

11:55 It doesn't help any of us in the end.

11:57 We don't know if we're coming or going.

11:58 Dave, can survive after these election results?

12:01 Absolutely not.

12:02 Um, and I'll tell you why that is.

12:04 It's not just about these election results today and yesterday.

12:09 It's not just about the unforgivable,

12:12 unfathomable appointment of Peter Manderson,

12:17 an associate of the world's most prolific pedophile,

12:20 which the prime minister knew when he appointed him to that role.

12:23 He just he claims now he just didn't know how much

12:27 of a sympathizer with the world's most

12:29 prolific pedophile and he thinks that washes.

12:33 He has zero understanding of how ordinary

12:37 people think and what ordinary people's values are.

12:41 But over and above the election and over and above the Mandlesson scandal,

12:46 it's about what's happened over the last two years to ordinary people.

12:51 Large swaves of England have demonstrated in these local elections

12:54 what we've known in Scotland for some time and that is

12:58 that Westminster isn't working or in so far as it

13:01 is working it's working in the interests of Westminster.

13:06 It's not working in the interests of communities

13:08 across London or more widely in England.

13:12 And that's because it's this cozy duopoly between

13:15 the Tories and the Labor Party which is actually no

13:19 more sophisticated than it's our turn now

13:21 and in a while it will be your turn and backing

13:24 forward it's gone for the last 100 years and look

13:27 at the state of the fundamentals in the economy

13:29 where the UK spends more on debt interest than

13:33 it spends on defense and education in England combined.

13:37 It's utterly appalling.

13:38 And while that's all happening under Angela Rener the chancellor that this weak

13:44 prime minister can't bring to heal much

13:47 less dismiss and replace with somebody else.

13:50 The economy is tanking, growth is flat, unemployment is up, investment is down,

13:57 it's worth pointing out it's not all rosy

13:59 in the Scotland garden when it comes to the S&P.

14:01 I mean, far be it for me to say, but I mean, you've got in Scotland,

14:04 for example, 9% of patients are waiting over a year for a treatment on the NHS.

14:09 In England, it's 2%.

14:12 So, and that's on your watch.

14:13 That is on our watch.

14:14 And in and waiting lists in Scotland under

14:16 the S&P have been coming down every month,

14:19 month on month for the last 10 years.

14:21 We have got the same problem that England had

14:23 and we've approached it in different ways and incidentally,

14:26 we measure it in different ways as well.

14:29 So these things are but do remember though to your point

14:33 that what happens in England is not contingent on the political

14:37 choices we make in Scotland but what happens in Scotland

14:40 is contingent on the political choices that are made in Westminster

14:44 and that's a fundamental difference that's a fundamental difference yes

14:48 but the budgets that allocated to the Scottish government by the Westminster

14:53 government is not devolved and we will always be working with one

14:56 arm tie behind one thing under those circum At the moment,

15:00 not all the results are in for Scotland.

15:01 We've had the constituency results.

15:03 We haven't had the list results.

15:05 Your leader John Sweeney said, "If there is an SNP majority,

15:08 we will call for another referendum." If you fall short of an outright majority,

15:15 are you not going to call for that or are you still going

15:17 to go for a referendum in 2028 should be you be able to get it?

15:23 So, you're quite right.

15:25 That was our that was our um our campaign plan.

15:28 Not all the seats have declared them.

15:29 We don't know what's going to happen with the list

15:31 votes that we have in Scotland as well.

15:34 So if you don't get an outright majority, are you going to abandon that?

15:37 So the reason we were pursuing an outright majority is because the UK

15:40 exists on the basis of pre precedence in the absence of a written constitution.

15:45 So we could use very clearly Dave,

15:48 if you don't get an outright majority in the moment we don't know,

15:51 will you still press for a referendum, an independent referendum in 2028?

15:55 We will continue to pursue independence,

15:57 whether that's with a referendum in 2028 or some other mechanism.

16:00 And I'll tell you why that is.

16:02 It's fundamental.

16:03 This election that's been counted today will return a twothirds

16:07 majority in the Scottish Parliament of independent supporting parties.

16:11 The S&P have secured 40% of the vote of the vote in these elections

16:16 with independence as our priority on top of the cost of living crisis.

16:20 That is what we're delivering for the people of Scotland.

16:23 So Liz, we in Wales the results have been extraordinary.

16:28 I mean Labor has dominated politics in Wales for a century.

16:32 Tonight no longer and plighted is the biggest party

16:35 just short of a majority but nonetheless the biggest party.

16:40 Independence it's see you see Pi are kind

16:43 of back unlike the SNP going gang busters for it.

16:47 Ply are rowing back on that idea.

16:48 Presume that's because you think you're not going to take the voters with you.

16:51 for us now and of course I'm very aware that I am here in London.

16:54 I am here in London to talk about Wales.

16:57 The question was about Karma but Karma is part

17:01 of the symptom of what is wrong with the United

17:04 Kingdom as a political system and what we have

17:06 seen in Wales of course is a historic event today.

17:11 The Labor Party has lost its 100red years grasp on Wales and it has

17:16 done that to my party plery and plery wants to see devolution working in Wales.

17:21 I'm sure there are many places within within England as well where

17:25 we could see devolution working way

17:27 more effectively for their communities because what

17:30 we have seen for decades longer even is that Westminster works very

17:35 well for certain people and certain communities and it leaves the rest behind.

17:39 So what has won for ple in Wales is a hope for the future

17:45 that change can actually mean something besides

17:50 pedalling fear and hatred and division within communities

17:55 but not necessarily independence.

17:57 Is that right?

17:58 Again coming over to pleary with pleary

18:01 as the majority plery of course we want further devolution.

18:05 We want further powers.

18:07 We are the party that stands for independence.

18:10 That's further.

18:11 Hang on, Liz.

18:11 I just want to be really clear.

18:12 The people of Wales that that is their decision.

18:15 Sure.

18:15 But what what do you you're the party now?

18:18 You are the biggest party.

18:20 Are you are you saying to the people who voted for you,

18:22 we're going for independence?

18:24 The impression I'm getting is you're not.

18:25 You have told them that in the first instance because the deal

18:28 that they have been dealt with de devolution in Wales is so bad.

18:32 It has so ills served the people of Wales that our job

18:35 in the first instance is to make it work and then people when people can

18:39 see the confidence that we can do something better ourselves then there will

18:44 we'll be on a journey but that journey has to find its own way.

18:48 Okay.

18:49 So Kevin, can Kstarma survive?

18:52 Uh, not for long.

18:54 Um, and not because these election results,

18:56 these are a symptom of a much wider problem.

18:59 It's Karma's judgment.

19:01 Lindsay, you asked the question is judgment's the problem.

19:03 And whether it's Peter Mandlesson,

19:05 the appointment of Peter Mandlesson, whether it's

19:07 Can I just say actually just for legal reasons,

19:09 I have to point that Peter Mandlesson denies he acted criminally.

19:13 No, but you can't deny that Karma appointed him

19:16 as the ambassador for the U the UK to the US,

19:19 a man who'd had to resign twice in scandal.

19:22 So, it was a poor decision.

19:23 The Cheros Islands, a poor decision.

19:25 The Winterfuel Alliance,

19:26 the removing of that from from pensions, a poor decision.

19:30 The family farm tax, family business tax.

19:32 And this is why the government is falling apart under the leadership of Karma.

19:37 He's not up to job to the job.

19:39 I'm sorry to say that, but he's simply not.

19:41 And I think sooner or later enough Labor backbenches or cabinet ministers will

19:46 go to the prime minister and say it's time for you to go.

19:49 And I think I don't think that'll be days but I think it

19:51 may be weeks or months but he will not get to the next election.

19:55 One thing I'd say about this whole thing

19:57 and I've been a member of parliament for 11 years.

19:59 I was in business for 30 years before

20:00 that is governing is diffic more difficult than people think.

20:04 And what's one thing I'll give to Karma is it's tough and there's lots

20:08 of different economic pressures and anybody's trying

20:11 to run this country at the moment.

20:12 That's a reality and so we've got to look at governing

20:16 this country through the lens it's difficult and one of the parties

20:21 here and Rob has said you know we want we want

20:24 change well the game change in Kent whether you've got a council

20:28 there and it's not good change reform council there and it's

20:33 not good change you've seen a tenth of the reform counselors either

20:37 resign or defect since they're appointed last year since they elected last

20:40 year it is tough to do this to make the books balance.

20:43 That's the reality.

20:44 So saying they were going to cut taxes and they didn't mean council taxes now,

20:48 you know, it was just cutting other kind of taxes.

20:51 That's, you know, you make these kind of promises.

20:53 You've got to be able to deliver on them.

20:55 That's the reality.

20:57 We in opposition, we made our mistakes in government.

20:59 We did.

21:00 We did some good things, too.

21:01 We made our mistakes.

21:03 What were the What were the good things?

21:04 Well, we balanced the books after the financial crash.

21:07 Could you accept that the tries for a very

21:10 long period of time before Karma came into Downing Street,

21:13 do you accept that you too collect with collective

21:16 governments and prime minister were an abject failure to

21:19 I don't think an ability I get a bit fed upon ask the question I get fed

21:24 up with people people politicians saying it's tough

21:27 it's tough let me tell you I bet most you've never done it

21:30 no but I tell you I could do a better job than you lot

21:32 well that's easy to say from the sidelines but I would

21:34 say that's what you get from the I would I bet

21:37 we we we spoke earlier uh before the show started

21:40 to a gentleman at the top who works in a hospital in ICU.

21:43 I think he said I suspect he has

21:45 a tougher day shift than the average politician.

21:48 So when I hear politicians talking about it's tough it's tough.

21:52 I reckon we could go around this whole audience and find

21:55 a lot of people who have a tough tougher job.

21:59 Let's find a politician who thinks this is

22:01 an exciting challenge not a tough job.

22:04 Let's let let's sat there saying you could

22:07 do a better job having never done the job.

22:08 I was 30 years in my own business building it

22:10 from a small business to a national one over 30 years.

22:13 You can imagine how hard that work that was.

22:15 I worked more hours every week than I did back then.

22:18 It is a tough job.

22:20 There's no question.

22:21 What you need is a good leader.

22:23 I think we've got a good leader in chem.

22:25 I think we need a a good team.

22:26 We've got a good team and a plan and we

22:28 need to set out our plans and subject them to scrutiny.

22:31 Just a final point just being on the S

22:34 SNP because that's such an instructive point.

22:35 David, you were criticizing the economy of the UK.

22:39 The the Scotland has been the worst performing

22:41 part of the UK in terms of the economy.

22:44 That's absolutely true.

22:46 If if the Scotland had grown at the same pace as the rest of the UK,

22:50 the economy would be 11 billion pounds larger.

22:53 That's a reality.

22:54 So h the Scotland's economic output is is

22:58 habitually in the top quartile of the UK.

23:01 Foreign direct investment.

23:02 Scout Scotland outperforms every other element of the UK.

23:05 Your economy is growing more slowly.

23:06 David, we've got more people in work and fewer people out of work.

23:10 If that's a failing economy, no wonder you got voted out.

23:14 Right.

23:14 Well, we can all trade statistics.

23:16 Uh let's just I'm going to come back to you in a minute.

23:18 I just want to come back to one point because I knew it would come up.

23:21 So Robert, since you're here, I want to ask you about it.

23:23 this five million pound donation to Nigel Farage from Christopher Harbornne.

23:28 Um it was a a gift apparently Nigel Farah says with no strings attached.

23:34 Is it just coincidence then that Nigel Farage wants the Bank

23:38 of England to have a Bitcoin reserve and have tax on crypto deals?

23:44 Look, I think the real scandal here is that you've got one of the most senior

23:48 politicians in this country who is provided

23:51 with absolutely no security for him and his family.

23:55 He's someone who is in danger, whose home has been firebombed,

23:58 who has had many, many threats, and

24:01 sure, but that's no reason for him not to declare it.

24:04 Well, he had no need to declare it.

24:05 The the rules are very clear.

24:07 If you get a gift as a private

24:09 individual before you've been elected to parliament,

24:11 before you were even a candidate for parliament,

24:13 you're under no obligation to make a declaration.

24:15 It depends which Listen, Robert, you know as well as I do.

24:17 It depends which bit of the rule depends

24:20 which bits of the code of conduct you read.

24:21 It also says if there's any doubt as to whether

24:25 that could imply any sense of being beholden,

24:29 you should declare doesn't imply any sense because so it is the point I made.

24:32 It is just coincidence.

24:34 The time that Nigel accepted this gift,

24:36 he wasn't even standing to be a member of parliament.

24:38 That's irrelevant.

24:39 Let alone that's how the rules.

24:41 But if I may finish my point,

24:43 the government could resolve this issue tomorrow if they

24:46 provided Nigel Farage with security for him and his family.

24:49 And I can tell you this.

24:50 So he then give the five minute back.

24:52 Is that is that what you're saying?

24:53 He would have no I'm asking but he would have no need

24:56 to find private money to fund his own security.

25:00 Look, somebody laughed in the audience,

25:02 but I I've known two members of parliament who've been

25:05 killed in the time I've been in the House of Commons.

25:08 I myself have been a recipient of death threats.

25:10 My wife is Jewish.

25:11 We receive anti-semitic abuse all the time.

25:14 It is sometimes tough going into public life.

25:16 And I think those people who do,

25:18 particularly the most prominent politicians in this country,

25:21 which Nigel is arguably one or or the second

25:25 most prominent person in British politics today,

25:27 perhaps after the prime minister, I believe those people should be protecting.

25:31 Hang on.

25:32 Let me just complete the point.

25:34 If reform was in government and if any

25:36 of the politicians on this panel came to myself,

25:39 if I was chancellor of the exjecker or Zia

25:41 Ysef was home secretary and said there were credible

25:44 threats to them or their family in the blink

25:47 of an eye would provide them with the security.

25:49 So let me ask you again then I think that's what every should do.

25:53 If the government pledged to give Nigel far the security he desires,

25:57 would he give that 5 million back?

25:59 Well, he he doesn't need to do that because it was it was a gift.

26:02 That's Wow.

26:03 But that's Well, it was a gift for that person.

26:05 It was a gift for that person.

26:06 So, if he no longer needs it,

26:07 wouldn't why would the government do there's another way

26:10 the government and it's very easy for you to mock this.

26:13 But I'll tell you why.

26:15 I tell you why.

26:16 Imagine if you were telling Imagine if you were subject to severe.

26:20 Maybe you have been.

26:21 I've had death threats.

26:22 Well, I think the only public life to be properly supported.

26:25 Listen, here's the point.

26:27 If it was Kia Starmer and we discovered last week he'd

26:30 taken5 million pounds without declaring it

26:34 from some crypto millionaire in Thailand,

26:37 you'd have gone absolutely berserk and demanding.

26:42 That's the bottom line.

26:43 This is what you're saying.

26:45 It's total hypocrisy.

26:46 It's total hypocrisy.

26:47 It's not the difference here, Pier,

26:49 is we're talking about a gift before somebody was even a member of Yes.

26:52 But you know, you have to declare it within the 12 months before you become.

26:55 Not if it's a gift from the Rob.

26:56 There's a way of clearing this up.

26:57 There's a way of clearing this up which we

26:59 would all we would all accept and agree to.

27:01 Nigel Farage could refer himself to the parliamentary standards commissioner.

27:05 No, he could do that.

27:06 There is doubt.

27:08 Do you think someone like Niger should get security

27:10 from the government so that he can walk the streets in safety?

27:13 Well, I I think if there's a case

27:14 to do that, it should be answered on its merits.

27:16 I'm not against that.

27:17 Okay.

27:17 I tell you what, I've got two minutes and I want

27:19 to bring the audience in because I would say you've not got much.

27:22 who asked this question last week uh to Zia Ysef who was on the program.

27:26 He gave a similar answer to the one that I've given.

27:29 Smears essentially like this have been thrown at reform

27:32 politicians for weeks and weeks and they have failed.

27:35 I'm not sure I've made a smearionous billions

27:38 of people have gone out and voted for reform.

27:41 So these smears from establishment parties and parts of the media will come.

27:44 I'm certain in the months and the years to come.

27:46 Do you think it's to ask the question?

27:49 I I do think you you doing this to smear somebody.

27:51 Wow.

27:52 Because he has not broken any rules.

27:54 There's no evidence of that whatsoever.

27:56 He is a man who's purely motivated

27:58 with his own protection and that of his partner.

28:01 Let's hear from our audience.

28:02 Man there in the front.

28:04 Um I feel like every major party at some point has had a scandal about donors,

28:08 huge amounts of money being thrown around to buy influence.

28:12 I'm a student.

28:13 I'm staring down the barrel of near enough £50,000 in debt to go to university.

28:18 It really makes me feel like I can't trust any politicians with my vote.

28:24 Okay.

28:24 And let me hear one more point.

28:26 I mean, I mean, this woman there in the middle,

28:29 I think this is a classic example of you lot losing your moral compass.

28:34 I can't believe we're even discussing this.

28:36 In any other work environment, you would be out the door.

28:40 And if Kirstma goes at least three of you should have the integrity because

28:44 it's the combination of your policies that have resulted to where we are today.

28:49 And just by changing your party

28:50 color doesn't absolve you of collective responsibility.

28:55 And in any good board, the board takes collective responsibility.

28:59 And I'm fed up of making individuals the scapegoat.

29:02 Stand up, be counted, and have a moral compass.

29:07 Right.

29:07 Okay.