Health Officials Downplay Pandemic Risk From Cruise Hantavirus Outbreak

0:00 Doctor, first of all, I wanna ask a dumb question,

0:03 and that is, is it hantavirus or hantavirus?

0:05 All morning.

0:06 We we have differing opinions on this.

0:09 And then I also I grew up with this out west.

0:12 I know, David, you spent some time there as a kid.

0:14 I didn't think it spread like this.

0:15 So how do we say it, and how does it spread, and how dangerous is it?

0:19 Alright.

0:20 Three great questions.

0:20 Good morning, and thanks for having me here.

0:22 I've always called it hantavirus.

0:24 That's what I was taught when I was in medical school.

0:27 Let's go with hanta.

0:29 Okay.

0:29 Most strains of hantavirus are spread from rodents to humans,

0:33 and they don't spread from human to human.

0:35 There's one strain that is an exception to that, and that's the Andes strain.

0:39 And, unfortunately, that's what we have on the cruise ship so far.

0:43 It's a pretty dangerous virus.

0:44 And so if you grew up in the in the American Southwest,

0:47 New Mexico, Arizona, you've probably heard of hantavirus.

0:49 Usually, you get it from from rodent droppings,

0:52 getting aerosolized, and you breathe it in.

0:55 Thirty, forty percent mortality rate, maybe even higher.

0:57 So it's a pretty dangerous virus.

0:59 Thankfully, we have not seen large outbreaks in the past,

1:01 but this one is different,

1:03 partly because it's the wrong strain or it's the bad strain,

1:05 the one that spreads.

1:06 And then it's ended up being on a cruise ship,

1:08 which is a a pretty good petri dish for a lot of viruses spreading.

1:12 My turn now for a two part question.

1:15 The first is Nebraska.

1:16 Why Nebraska?

1:16 I remember this being a facility that was used during the Ebola outbreak,

1:19 I think maybe during the early days of COVID, as well.

1:21 So that's my first part.

1:23 The second is, what will happen to these patients when they get there?

1:26 What does this quarantine look like in in practice?

1:28 Yeah.

1:28 Two good questions.

1:29 So Nebraska, we have these special pathogen units in across The US.

1:34 University of Nebraska Medical Center has got

1:35 one of the best ones in the country.

1:37 I'd argue one of the best in the world.

1:40 The most dangerous pathogens,

1:41 people it might be who might be infected with them can go there.

1:44 They've got fantastic safety protocols,

1:46 some of the best clinicians in the world on these topics.

1:49 So that's why Nebraska.

1:50 That's why our Ebola patients went there,

1:52 and that's why it's a good place for these folks to go.

1:55 Look.

1:56 I I don't think do I think they need that?

1:58 I don't.

1:58 I think they're doing it out of an abundance of caution.

2:01 I think that's totally reasonable.

2:02 What's gonna happen is they're gonna be monitored very closely.

2:05 What we know about hantavirus in the in the one strain that spreads from people,

2:09 the people is usually only spreads when people have symptoms.

2:13 So you could make the case that if they're feeling great,

2:15 they don't have to be in a in a place like this.

2:17 But, again, I think out of caution, they're gonna watch them very closely.

2:20 Obviously, if any of them develop symptoms,

2:21 they're gonna need to get tested and treated, but that's gonna be the plan.

2:25 I'm surprised how quickly this has gotten into people's minds possibly because,

2:30 you know, we're all still a little scarred from COVID.

2:33 Actually, New York Times writes about COVID PTSD,

2:35 and how this is a lingering legacy.

2:37 I was walking down the street in New York,

2:39 and some woman on the phone, young woman said,

2:40 you know, I really just wanna go meet

2:42 my friends before the hantavirus takes us all.

2:44 This this was yesterday here.

2:46 But it is it is serious.

2:48 It sounds like it's unlikely to cause a huge up outbreak at least immediately.

2:53 But if you are getting symptoms,

2:55 what do those look like, and how quickly do they progress?

2:57 What should you be on the lookout for?

2:59 Yeah.

3:00 And I wanna just reiterate.

3:01 I think the chances that this is somehow

3:03 gonna become a big global outbreak is exceedingly low.

3:05 It's just I don't think it's gonna happen.

3:08 Now let's talk about symptoms.

3:09 The problem with with this virus, like, most viruses,

3:12 they all start off about the same way.

3:15 A fever, a headache, you know, just feeling lousy.

3:18 By the way, that's like you know,

3:20 we all have symptoms like that when we get viral syndromes.

3:23 It then progresses pretty rapidly.

3:25 There are two forms.

3:26 There's a pulmonary form where you get very severely short of breath.

3:29 It really affects your lungs, and you can get very sick that way.

3:33 There's another form where you get much more in the abdominal pain,

3:36 infects your vessels, and you can get very sick and die, in that other way.

3:40 So starts off pretty much like most viral syndromes,

3:43 then it can progress pretty quickly after that.

3:45 Ask about the vaccine for this.

3:47 So Bloomberg reporting Moderna has done some early stage work

3:49 on on the vaccine for hunterviruses in the in The US.

3:52 It's working with vaccine information center at Korea

3:55 University College of Medicine on a potential immunization.

3:58 What's the status of the development of immunization for this?

4:00 That something we should be looking for in your estimation here in short order?

4:05 Yeah.

4:05 So look.

4:06 The mRNA platform is awesome, and, obviously, we use it in during COVID to get

4:10 vaccines out to the American people very, very rapidly.

4:13 As you probably know, secretary Kennedy has is not a fan, and therefore,

4:17 he's really blocked the the the development

4:19 of mRNA vaccines here in The United States.

4:21 I think, by the way, completely irrational.

4:23 There's no logic for that.

4:25 So now companies like Moderna and European

4:27 companies are working with other countries.

4:29 In terms of the hantavirus vaccine, it's still pretty pretty early stage.

4:34 Eventually, we need to go through, you know, kind of large clinical trials.

4:37 There aren't that many people getting infected

4:39 with this, so you're not gonna see those trials.

4:41 So it's not anywhere near prime time,

4:42 but the good news is I don't think we need it right now.

4:44 I mean, we should develop it.

4:46 Obviously, if it becomes a bigger outbreak,

4:47 we should study it much more closely.

4:48 But for most people, this is not gonna be an issue,

4:51 but we're not gonna be getting hantavirus vaccines anytime soon.

4:55 Since we have you, I do wanna ask you.

4:57 There's some reporting from the Wall Street Journal that president Trump

4:59 has signed off on a plan to fire the FDA commissioner,

5:02 after policy fights about vaping, the abortion pills, and others.

5:05 He was actually asked about it last night.

5:07 We've got some sound for you.

5:08 What's going on with Biden and terrorists?

5:11 Nothing much.

5:11 You're doing Biden?

5:12 You're just saying that?

5:13 Are you gonna fire him?

5:14 I've been reading about it, but I know nothing about it.

5:20 So Trump's saying, asked what he knows.

5:21 He says he doesn't you know, is he gonna do it?

5:23 He says he's he just knows nothing about it.

5:25 What is your take on this and the state of play at the FDA right now?

5:29 How well it's functioning, and morale inside that agency?

5:33 Yeah.

5:33 It's a great question.

5:34 Obviously, I don't know exactly what's

5:35 happening in terms of doctor McRae's status.

5:37 There's all this confusion.

5:39 I've been reading the same stuff that everybody else has.

5:43 In terms of the FDA, I mean,

5:44 I think what I would say is I actually was a pretty big fan of of Marty.

5:47 I have been for a long time of him getting nominated.

5:49 I think he has tried to do a good job.

5:52 I think he's made a few some missteps, and it's been complicated because there's

5:57 a lot of political pressure from his boss, the secretary of HHS,

6:00 to do certain things that I think a typical FDA

6:04 commissioner would not face from a typical secretary of HHS.

6:06 So I think Marty's had a hard job.

6:08 And, you know, and I as I said,

6:11 I think he's been he's very qualified to do this.

6:14 How this plays out, I don't know.

6:16 But the FDA is struggling because they've lost a ton of staff.

6:19 They've been dodged, and that has meant some of their best scientists have left.

6:23 Marty's been managing a pretty, pretty difficult agency that's under a lot

6:28 of stress because of some of those moves.