AOC and MTG Go To War Over Israel
Breaking Points
0:00 Let's talk about a much more fun subject.
0:02 I'm sure uh this will cause no controversy whatsoever.
0:06 Oh yeah, people love when I talk about AOC.
0:09 Yeah, let's do it.
0:09 Let's do it.
0:10 Crystal, uh what what should we what should we be thinking about
0:13 right now when it comes to Marjorie Taylor Green, AOC, and Israel?
0:19 So AOC did do a few podcast appearances last week.
0:23 Um friendly spaces, but still, you know,
0:25 she's getting out there a little bit more.
0:26 and she did this talk at a university
0:28 with David Axelrod and got asked a question
0:31 about how she thinks about working in a bipartisan
0:35 manner with figures like Marjorie Taylor Green.
0:38 Let's go ahead and take a listen to how AOC responded to that.
0:41 I care about results.
0:44 I care about results.
0:45 Now there are certain places where certain areas where I don't think
0:50 that that we should ignore some folks record on some of these issues, right?
0:58 It's about where we we trust intent,
1:01 where we trust where those outcomes are going.
1:04 I personally do not trust someone like Marjorie Taylor Green,
1:09 a proven bigot and anti-semite on the issues
1:12 of what is good for Gazins and Israelis.
1:16 I don't I don't think that it benefits our movement
1:21 in that instance to align the left with white nationalists.
1:27 I don't think it serves us.
1:29 And so I think it's about looking at the context, the place,
1:34 the results, the outcomes, intentions, and where we think that train would go.
1:39 But as far as what someone says about me, I could care less.
1:43 And um you know, I think it's really about what our outcomes are.
1:47 And to be honest, there are some areas where things
1:50 will not get done if they're partisan because they are anti-establishment.
1:56 um the there is bipartisan consensus on keeping
2:00 and protecting stock trading in Congress and so it's going
2:05 to require massive bipartisan consensus of people willing
2:08 to come together across those differences to get it done.
2:12 So we got a response from Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green.
2:15 We can put this up on the screen.
2:17 She says AOC refused to vote for my amendment to strip funding for Israel.
2:21 She can run her mouth all she wants, but votes are the only thing that matters.
2:24 not a bunch of words and nasty name calling.
2:28 And that is true.
2:29 Um and in fact I recall if I recall
2:32 correctly the reason AOC said she did not vote
2:34 for that amendment is because she run into protect
2:37 funding for Iron Dome quote unquote defensive funding which
2:40 of course is not a position that I um
2:42 agree with or really find acceptable is something that I
2:45 pushed Alyssa Slotkin on when we had her on um
2:47 last year to to talk about this as well.
2:50 I have so many thoughts on this Emily.
2:52 So, I think first of all,
2:53 one of the ways that this conversation has kind of fallen apart online is
2:58 when people talk about Marjorie Taylor Green
3:01 or talk about Tucker Carlson and, you know,
3:03 what the left's relationship to them should be,
3:06 I feel like there's a lot of there's a gulf between
3:11 expectations of what that sort of quote unquote allyship would look like.
3:16 You know, it's one thing I I agree with AOC.
3:19 Like I think there's a lot of reasons
3:20 to continue to be skeptical of Marjorie Taylor Green.
3:23 I'll get into some of the things she's said
3:25 and done that there has not been an explanation for it.
3:28 Hey, how did you completely change your views 180 degrees?
3:30 Have you changed your views 180 degrees or do you still
3:33 hold these incredibly bigoted Islamophobic views that you espoused in the past?
3:38 Like I think there is a lot of explaining to do still.
3:42 I think there are a lot of amends to be made
3:45 still from Marjorie Taylor Green before people are just going to go,
3:48 "Oh yeah, welcome to the cause.
3:49 You're our ally." But do I think it's incredibly useful
3:53 to be able to show someone like her, someone like Tucker Carlson,
3:57 someone like Thomas Massie, others who are on the right who have been strident
4:00 Trump supporters who now have this very aggressive criticism of Trump
4:05 and specifically on the issue of Israel and specifically
4:08 on the issue of Israel and the US committing a genocide.
4:11 Do I think it's important to say, "Thank you for agreeing with us on this.
4:15 This is very important and uplifting those voices
4:18 in the context of opposing Trump." Yeah, I think that's very useful.
4:21 I think it's something the right does all the time, by the way.
4:23 I mean, if you look at the last election, Emily,
4:26 part of how Trump was able to succeed was by taking
4:30 people who were former Democrats or former liberals or seen as being,
4:36 you know, in the center, independent or whatever,
4:38 and finding the places where they agreed with him or supported him and really
4:43 uplifting that and that was part of how he built a coalition together.
4:46 Now again, do I think that means
4:48 you should like trust Marjorie Taylor Green even
4:51 from the perspective of how do you change
4:52 your views so whole and completely in one year?
4:55 Is there just like a petty motivation here?
4:57 And what would keep you from then switching
4:59 your views again completely to the other side?
5:01 That's a really good question.
5:03 But the other thing I would say is, you know,
5:06 a mcg has more sort of explaining and amends to make,
5:10 but um AOC also has some amends to make here.
5:13 And in particular, this is something Jasper Nathaniel pointed
5:15 out and it's not an original thought, but look, she went on the stage at the DNC
5:19 and said comma was working tirelessly for a ceasefire.
5:23 That was really, it was not true.
5:26 First of all, I think that's important that that was just a lie.
5:29 Uh and second of all,
5:30 it came at a time where they were trying
5:33 very hard to maintain a position of support for genocide,
5:38 but yet progressives and leftists and people of good conscience who were
5:42 worried about being complicit in that genocide to get them on board.
5:45 Mhm.
5:45 AOC being a person who has a lot of credibility with the left,
5:50 going out there and carrying water and propagating that lie at the very
5:54 DNC where they would not even allow a Palestinian American on stage to speak.
5:58 Yeah, that was very harmful.
6:00 People aren't just going to let that go, nor should they.
6:04 So, I would like to also see her, that's not to say she's, you know,
6:08 like she can never be forgiven for that or any,
6:10 but I would like to hear from her why she said that.
6:14 I would like to hear from her that that was a mistake.
6:16 I would like to hear from her that that was damaging.
6:20 And so I think that she also has some amends to make.
6:24 I think she also has some, you know, explaining to do on how her position
6:28 has shifted and if her position has completely
6:31 shifted because you do have recent votes where
6:34 she still was she still was doing this.
6:36 Oh, defensive weapon, offensive weapons, etc.
6:40 Right.
6:40 And we have that thought, right, of her at the DNC.
6:42 We should roll it because it's I I had actually forgotten how uh
6:47 I don't even know what the right how aggressively pro Harris that speech was.
6:51 So, we should just roll this here.
6:53 It's going to be E3.
6:55 She understands the urgency of rent checks and groceries and prescriptions.
7:01 She is as committed to our reproductive and civil
7:05 rights as she is to taking on corporate greed.
7:12 and she is working tirelessly to secure
7:16 a ceasefire in Gaza and bringing hostages home.
7:22 Aggressive.
7:23 I mean, that is Yeah, that is an eager message in support of Kla Harris.
7:28 Yeah.
7:28 And I'm not sure I bought by that uh
7:30 corporate greed aspect either given the way she walked
7:33 back from some of the originally very powerful proposals
7:35 she had with regard to corporate greed as she
7:37 moved more into the arms of of Mark
7:39 Cuban and some of the other advisers who pushed
7:41 her in a more corporate direction and and to deemphasize
7:44 some of those um positions she had had held originally.
7:48 But yeah, I mean the the other piece here that you know just to to back
7:51 up AOC and also we should keep in mind here these are human beings and Marjorie
7:55 Taylor Green has been viciously nasty and harassing
7:58 of AOC and those are very hard things to get past because you look at someone
8:04 you're like oh this this is your true character.
8:06 Whatever you're doing now to try to position yourself as some moral actor
8:10 is is an act because I've seen your own vindictiveness to my face.
8:15 But in any case, by the way, that's the argument MTG makes about Trump.
8:19 Just to keep those two things uh in the same space for a moment.
8:22 Like that's true.
8:23 It's exactly the argument she's made.
8:24 Like her break with Trump at one point is
8:26 she texted him saying her son was getting threats um
8:28 and if you she could he could dial down some
8:31 of his attacks on her and he basically went and said,
8:34 "No, it's your fault." Blah blah.
8:36 And she tells that story a lot about how
8:38 it uh kind of showed his character in a moment
8:41 of of test after she had gone on the line
8:43 for him for so many years, which is all true.
8:46 And so that character argument does of course
8:48 go both ways to your point, Crystal.
8:50 Yeah.
8:50 Yeah.
8:51 Well, and so we could put E4 up on the screen.
8:54 Marjorie Taylor Green really pushed this condemnation of um Rashida Talib.
9:00 She said that this one proud to stand with Israel along
9:04 my Republican colleagues AOC Ilhan Omar Rashida Ayanna Presley and Corey Bush.
9:08 The jihad squad openly support Hamas terrorists get attacking Israel.
9:14 Okay, that's what she said.
9:15 Again, there should no apology for this.
9:19 And if you see the the press conference, she's behind a giant Israeli flag.
9:23 Yes.
9:24 So this pre-occtober 7th.
9:25 Yep.
9:26 Right.
9:26 So you know when MTG says, "Well, votes are all that matter." Well,
9:29 if you stack up the voting record between her and AOC
9:32 over any length of period of time outside of that one vote,
9:36 AOC comes out on top head and shoulders.
9:38 It's not even close, right?
9:39 It's not even close.
9:40 And then we could put E5 up on the screen.
9:43 This is after Zoran mom Donnie is elected mayor of New York and she posts this.
9:48 I guess this is on Instagram.
9:50 It's the Statue of Liberty cloaked in a burka.
9:54 Uh so you know this is the the sort
9:56 of Islamophobic content that she was posting.
9:59 This was quite recent right Zoran was not
10:02 that was June of last year.
10:03 Yeah it was that was not that long ago.
10:05 I guess this was after the primary victory
10:07 but still yeah this was not like ancient
10:09 history and again we haven't we have seen
10:13 Marjorie Taylor Green grapple with some of her positions.
10:16 Talk about for example how she got sucked into QAnon.
10:18 I have not personally heard,
10:19 maybe she said it and I haven't followed all of her content,
10:22 but I have not personally heard her grapple
10:24 with her own hateful bigotry when it comes to Muslims.
10:29 And I think that would be very important.
10:31 And that doesn't mean either that that would
10:33 be sufficient to completely trust this individual.
10:37 But, you know, I I do think that would be an important thing to hear
10:41 if you want to be someone that's
10:42 taken seriously as actually defending human rights
10:46 at this point in a universal way and not just put picking a new racial scapegoat
10:53 that you find to be more evil than
10:56 the previous racial scapegoat that you were pushing.
10:59 So, you know, from that perspective, I I understand where AOC is coming from.
11:03 I would just say I think this is all if you're
11:05 just looking at like my ideological lens and trying to elect
11:11 progressives and trying to have a better place with regard
11:15 to a relationship to Israel and opposing genocide and supporting human rights.
11:19 I think Marjgery Taylor Green is very useful.
11:22 I think that um you know, the things she said have been important.
11:25 I have appreciated the things that she
11:27 has said with regard to genocide in particular.
11:29 You know, I feel very similarly about Tucker Carlson, who I also do not trust,
11:32 who I also think has um a Christian nationalist view overall.
11:37 Um, so it's not like I'm going to make common cause with him,
11:40 but do I find him use politically useful in this moment when I
11:44 think we need to rethink our approach
11:46 to the world and certainly our relationship
11:48 with Israel and need to get back to a place where universal human
11:52 rights are something that we can talk about and something we can aspire to.
11:55 Yes, I find them useful in that regard.
11:57 Well, yeah, this is a really interesting like
11:59 the just the quandry that the left has found itself
12:02 in over MTG is I think really useful
12:04 in the way that it blends the personal and the political.
12:07 And that's kind of what you're getting
12:08 at is like there's so many people who have
12:10 personal skepticism of AOCC's character as opposed to like
12:14 her utility as a uh leftist in Congress.
12:18 And that's where you saw them kind of comparing AOC's votes on Israel.
12:23 Uh some people comparing AOC's votes on Israel
12:25 to MTG's and the way that MTG like actually as soon as she changed her mind
12:30 went out and started voting on this stuff.
12:32 Uh and I actually think there are a lot
12:35 of people on the right who changed their minds about this.
12:37 It's quickly in the scope of kind of the history
12:39 of the conservative movement and positions on Israel,
12:42 but it it happened over the course of a couple years.
12:44 Um and it was a buildup.
12:46 You know, for me it started before October 7th and you guys
12:49 uh gave me a lot of a lot of grace on that.
12:51 We've talked about it extensively,
12:53 but for a lot of people it started in the last couple years of that war.
12:57 And it was because people on the right became really skeptical,
13:01 obviously even more skeptical,
13:03 had they as they had already been um of what was coming out of the media.
13:08 And when people started to see the rug
13:11 get pulled out from under them with these narratives,
13:13 it people started questioning everything basically.
13:16 And so I don't necessar like I think she's had
13:18 a pretty normal transition from point A to point B,
13:22 um that a lot of conservatives,
13:24 especially conservatives who are like kind of America first,
13:27 people who were motivated by MAGA um to get involved
13:31 in politics exactly like her to start paying attention to politics.
13:34 Uh, I think it's it's pretty it's pretty normal
13:36 and consistent with what a lot of people experienced.
13:38 And I do think she she put herself on the line and like
13:42 has been fairly brave uh in pushing back against some of this stuff.
13:46 But just as she was brave, you know,
13:48 to be as proTrump as she was in Washington uh even when I disagreed
13:52 with her and many people disagreed with her was
13:54 uncommon uh to be like that, you know,
13:57 pro just as like the the sort of like rally going MAGA voter.
14:01 Uh it takes some bravery to do that in Congress because even the ones
14:05 who act like it for the cameras don't do that behind the scenes.
14:08 They don't believe any of it behind the scenes, many of them.
14:10 So uh I I have some respect for her.
14:13 I wish she hadn't quit.
14:14 I genuinely wish that she hadn't quit because then we would get to see uh where
14:18 some of these votes and and pieces of legislation
14:20 that she was introducing would go going forward.
14:22 But Crystal, this actually makes me think we should perhaps invite
14:25 her to talk about what she thinks on some of these questions now.
14:28 It would be interesting.
14:29 I would be down for that.
14:30 I would absolutely be down for that.
14:32 She had a really interesting interview on The View where she actually
14:35 apologized for her rhetoric and for her actions and she stepped back
14:39 from some of it and said she felt like she contributed
14:43 to a lot of the tensions uh that had uh escalated uh in Washington.
14:48 I I do think it would be interesting to hear some of that from her because
14:52 her tactics and rhetoric actually is kind
14:54 of an interesting part of uh the picture here.
14:57 So, we'll see.
14:58 I mean, but it's it's it's a very it is a quandry
15:01 for the left and I think I don't blame anybody for for being skeptical,
15:05 but the political utility is I think it is fairly obvious.
15:08 It's just the personal questions that remain unresolved.
15:11 Absolutely.
15:11 And the point you raised about I wish she hadn't quit is
15:14 a really important one because if she was in Congress right now,
15:18 there are there's a lot she could be doing.
15:20 She could be, you know, an ally for Thomas Massie.
15:23 She could be an ally for Roana.
15:25 she could be taking votes that actually matter and in a very
15:29 closely divided house um that could be making a difference.
15:33 So, you know, one place where I uh
15:35 I slightly disagree with our beloved Ryan Grim is,
15:39 you know, he said she p she paid a political price.
15:42 Well, there's no doubt that it was going
15:43 to make it more difficult for her in her district,
15:45 but she also quit before she really paid a political price.
15:47 You know, she didn't she didn't find out
15:49 if she could withstand the um the onslaught.
15:53 Whereas Thomas Massie is still in there in his seat.
15:55 He's up against a very well-funded primary opponent.
15:59 He has got Trump backing uh you know,
16:01 strongly backing his primary opponent and attacking him all the time and he's
16:05 in there fighting the good fight and taking it and doing his best.
16:08 So I I do think that that is uh very unfortunate that she decided to quit rather
16:14 than try to hold on to these newfound principles
16:18 in a body where it really makes a difference.
16:21 Um, the other thing that I would say is,
16:24 you know, AOC called her an anti-semite.
16:27 And I think at this point because of the way that term
16:29 has been so used and abused that you really need to offer concrete
16:34 examples of what you mean by that, you know,
16:37 when you say that, why, how did you come to that conclusion?
16:41 But I also will say that some significant
16:44 chunk of the Republican newfound Republican antipathy towards
16:49 Israel is about anti-semitism is about groperism
16:53 and Nick Fuentes and noticing and just direct anti-.
16:58 It doesn't come from a place of we believe in universal human rights.
17:03 It comes from a place of oh we
17:04 decided the Jews are actually worse than the Muslims.
17:07 We decided that the Jews are the real problem in this country.
17:10 not Israel, not our policy towards a foreign country,
17:12 but quote unquote the Jews.
17:15 And Marjorie Taylor Green,
17:16 who trafficked in some anti-semitic conspiracies in the past,
17:18 the Jewish space laser thing or whatever that was.
17:21 It's it's a reasonable question to say, is this where you're coming from?
17:25 Are you coming from a place of we are
17:27 all God's children and participating in this barbarism is horrifying,
17:31 or are you coming from a place of I have a new
17:34 ranking of racial superiority and I have a new racial scapegoat?
17:37 I don't think it's out of the question given her previously stated views,
17:41 her previous her very clear Islamophobia from the past.
17:45 I don't think that it is out of the question
17:47 to push with her where this these views come from.
17:52 And uh you know so I think that skepticism is fair
17:55 and is warranted with regards to her, with regards to Tucker Carlson,
17:58 with regards to others on the right who have made a very quick
18:01 pivot towards being anti-Israel and who
18:04 have flirted or overtly embraced bigoted narratives,
18:08 racially charged um narratives in the past.
18:12 It I wouldn't say it's out of the question.
18:13 I do think her Tucker I mean Tucker has sort of started to his uh
18:18 I mean to he he is getting slammed by the right for this now
18:21 to for even saying that he thinks he was suckered in by some propaganda
18:26 campaigns on Islam and uh I don't know where MTJ would actually be interesting
18:31 to see MTG get on the record about some of this stuff but uh
18:34 from him from MTG from like Carrie Pjan some of them are are leading very
18:40 heavily with uh this exactly this religious
18:43 argument um saying that you nobody like nobody
18:47 should be treated like the people of Gaza
18:49 were treated for the last several years.
18:51 And Tucker said uh last week he thinks that actually Israelis are less safe.
18:55 Jewish Israelis are less safe now than ever before.
18:57 I feel like they've definitely led in with that aspect
19:02 of this that it's just you destruction of human life that's really enraged them.
19:07 Um and so I feel like I I feel pretty comfortable.
19:10 Uh I don't again I don't think it's I don't
19:11 think you're wrong that it's out out of the question.
19:13 Uh but I feel pretty comfortable at least personally that they're
19:15 coming from uh a a place of horror and disgust at what
19:20 transpired um over the last several years and not you know
19:23 attributing that to anybody for purposes
19:25 of immutable characteristics and the like.
19:27 But it's I mean we'll see where this goes from here.
19:31 I mean obviously Netanyahu was on Netanyahu.
19:34 I I don't feel comfortable just simply because again
19:37 to stick with the the case of Marjorie Taylor Green,
19:40 it would mean that she's not only broken with Trump
19:42 and she's not only changed her view on Israel,
19:44 but truly some of her foundational views of the world have changed, right?
19:48 Because she was obviously in the past not coming from a place
19:51 of we are all equal and everyone deserves equal rights.
19:55 So is she in a different place on that?
19:58 I'm open to that.
19:59 I'm open to it, but I don't know.
20:01 And so, you know, that's that's where I am.
20:03 Again, do I find her politically useful?
20:05 Absolutely.
20:05 Do I think we should do I think we should embrace and encourage
20:09 the things that she said in opposition to genocide and in favor and, you know,
20:14 in opposition to this horrible barbarism?
20:17 Yes, 100%.
20:19 Do I think we should also embrace,
20:20 you know, the genuine outreach that she has made?
20:23 For sure.
20:24 But um you know do I h still have some deep concerns about what
20:28 her underlying ideology is and what sort
20:31 of things she could easily push in the future.
20:33 Yes, those concerns certainly remain.
20:35 Totally fair.
20:35 I actually think that's one of the big fault lines
20:37 in the like leftright foreign policy
20:40 um coalition right now or emergent coalition.
20:43 I think one of the fault lines is uh even some
20:46 probably some things that like you and I would disagree on um
20:48 or Sag and Ryan all of us would potentially disagree on about
20:52 like things down the line that might come up on foreign policy questions.
20:56 It might not be that much.
20:57 Uh it might probably it'll probably be more between Marjorie
21:00 Taylor Green and all four of us to be honest.
21:02 But uh it I think it is actually one of the fault lines.
21:05 So we'll have to see.
21:06 But uh Netanyahu was just talking about on 60 Minutes.
21:09 We'll probably play the clip tomorrow.
21:10 uh how support for Israel he says
21:13 is directly declining in corres or in correlation
21:17 to I don't know if he uses that exact word but to the rise of
21:20 geometric relation to which I don't know if that's really
21:23 the the right language I don't know imagine triangles and
21:27 but the point he's really making is that uh
21:31 people have more access to information and the more
21:34 access to information people have is making them less
21:37 favorable towards Israel and so uh I I feel like,
21:41 you know, there's for a lot of people it's very real.
21:43 I don't know.
21:44 I I don't personally know MTG, so I can't speak for her.
21:46 But I think some of the good news is
21:49 uh that there has been a very real and sincere
21:52 uh questioning of some of these first principles that conservatives
21:55 always bought into and believed by people on the right,
21:58 certainly young people on the right, uh who are saying, you know,
22:01 we we can't support we we can't just
22:04 automatically support a country that is going to be
22:06 willing to engage in uh some of what we saw in Gaza over the last few years.
22:10 And uh Crystal, at least that is uh something to be
22:14 optimistic about in the future when it comes to Yeah.
22:17 hopefully hopefully uh the the rupture and this unquestioned
22:23 and reflexive alliance uh for between the United States and Israel.
22:28 Yep.
22:29 All right.
22:29 Well, we've got Colonel Larry Wilkerson standing
22:32 by to talk to us more about the Iran war.
22:33 So, let's get to that.
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