Why Am I Still Doing This? (with BBNO$)
Hank Green
0:00 I'm coming up on 20 years of doing stuff on the internet,
0:02 which is uh not something I ever really expected would be a thing.
0:06 And not maybe for the reasons you think.
0:07 Partly it is because it's it's a long time to be an internet person.
0:10 Like it's it's longer than I feel like
0:12 the internet has existed in the other direction.
0:15 Like I got on the internet as a a creator more than 20 years ago, honestly.
0:19 Like in the '9s, I was making stuff on the internet
0:21 to be consumed with the goal of it being consumed.
0:23 And that was, you know, for the average person in terms of the worldwide web,
0:28 like 10 years after you could even use it.
0:31 When when did the web launch?
0:33 When did Netscape launch?
0:35 94.
0:35 So yeah, I've been on the internet pretty much the whole time.
0:38 But that's not the only reason why I feel like this is weird.
0:40 So I've looked into this into my own brain.
0:42 And part of it is that I feel like the internet is
0:44 a thing that somebody like kind of threw up into the world.
0:47 Threw up into the world.
0:48 Yuck.
0:48 Just like a scaffolding almost.
0:49 And then we like looked up 20 years
0:51 later and everybody lived inside of the scaffolding.
0:53 It felt in a way like a temporary
0:55 structure and now we all live in this temporary
0:58 structure but it still in a weird way
1:00 feels temporary like we're all sort of waiting
1:02 for it to arrive at its final form
1:04 which I don't think that that that has happened
1:06 and indeed it may never happen but yeah we
1:08 just looked up and now we like live there.
1:10 I don't think that we think that we live on the internet but I
1:12 think that we do like I know that I do but of course I'm
1:14 like peak on on the internet kind of guy but I think a lot
1:18 of us do like we live a lot of our lives in the real world.
1:21 Obviously, I still have like a body and errands that I have
1:25 to run in like a real town that I really care about, that I really live in.
1:29 But the internet is a very recent thing
1:30 that did not exist for almost all of human history.
1:32 And now suddenly it's where like almost all
1:34 of culture happens and where a lot of careers
1:37 are made and politics is made and it's where
1:39 a lot of our brains go to get smoothed.
1:41 But that's not really what I want to talk about.
1:43 What I want to talk about is why I'm still doing it because I do not have to be.
1:47 I could definitely stop.
1:48 This is not a fake retirement video.
1:50 I'm not stepping away.
1:52 I'm not stopping.
1:53 Part of me sometimes wants to.
1:54 Right now, I'm dealing with shingles pain.
1:56 I am not at peak capacity.
1:58 I'm going slow.
1:59 But there are like lots of bad parts of being an internet person.
2:02 Like if I decided I did not want to live
2:04 in this strange state of partial publicness where some nonzero
2:09 and possibly fairly substantial number of strangers are always at any
2:12 given moment having some opinion about me that I cannot control.
2:16 I could stop.
2:17 I could go away and that would fade away.
2:19 it would just stop after a while.
2:21 I've seen people do it.
2:22 I have other work.
2:23 I have other interests.
2:24 I could do other things.
2:25 Lots of people would hire me for all
2:26 kinds of cool jobs that are not public ones.
2:28 So, there's a question here that needs an answer,
2:30 which is if I don't have to do this, but I am still doing it, then why?
2:33 Why am I doing it?
2:34 And today, you're going to be my therapist,
2:36 and then Baby No Money is going to be my therapist.
2:38 Yes, this video is half an interview with Baby No Money.
2:42 So, the most obvious answer to me is that this is just what I know.
2:45 I've spent a long time figuring out how this works,
2:47 or at least learning how it has worked in the past
2:49 and learning over and over again how it is changing
2:52 in frustrating ways where I step in it and then I
2:55 find different ways to clean the dog poop off of my shoe.
2:57 I know how to go from like having
2:58 a bunch of thoughts to figuring out which thoughts
3:00 are most interesting to turning those into actual
3:02 videos and then turning those into titles and thumbnails.
3:05 I know how to do the framing.
3:06 This isn't a very good example of that.
3:08 This video is not well constructed, but that's okay.
3:10 There's comfort in doing a job you know how to do.
3:12 Even if I didn't have the part [clears
3:14 throat] where people were like publicly appreciating it,
3:16 but I do have that part, but that's a separate part.
3:18 But just knowing how to do something and doing it well feels good.
3:23 Human beings return to familiar places.
3:26 In fact, we'll return to familiar harms rather than unfamiliar freedom.
3:29 So even I think if I didn't like it,
3:31 I might still do it because I know how to do it and it's comfortable.
3:35 I don't think I don't like it though.
3:36 I also think that I enjoy it, but there are many components to the enjoyment.
3:41 And I'm not sure which ones are strongest.
3:43 Like, it's amazing how hard it is to get the truth out of your own body.
3:47 There's a part of it that is almost certainly that I uh like the attention.
3:54 Um, I like getting emails from cool people who want to talk to me.
3:58 I like getting feedback from people who say that I'm doing a good job.
4:02 I like attention in the normal human way.
4:03 I like making something and having people look at it.
4:06 I like saying something and feeling it like arrive
4:09 at its destination and be interpreted and thought about.
4:13 I like being understood.
4:14 But if the answer was just attention,
4:16 I feel like I would have burned out on this much sooner.
4:18 Like it's too thin of a thing.
4:20 I see this happen all the time where people, especially on these new platforms,
4:24 they'll start creating, it'll be really, really rewarding,
4:27 and then eventually it's like actually there's all kinds of bad
4:30 stuff that comes along with this and the attention isn't enough.
4:33 And that's a hard thing.
4:34 And a lot of times the thing that keeps people going
4:35 after that is trying to figure out how to make money.
4:37 But that is also not a thing for me.
4:38 Like money is of course still important,
4:41 but like it's not I don't need it anymore.
4:43 Of course I believe this.
4:45 Of course I think this.
4:47 But really what I want to be true and what I
4:50 actually do think is true is that sure I like the attention.
4:53 Sure, I like getting the numbers to go up.
4:55 Sure, I like the clicks.
4:56 But really that's all surrogate for impact.
4:59 I like to take ideas that are and not just in my head but in the world.
5:05 Sometimes I feel like I'll make a video that's like a fairly, you know,
5:09 there's an area of public discourse that is talking
5:12 about an issue but it hasn't like gone wider
5:15 yet and I'm like part of how it goes
5:17 wider and then the world is better for that.
5:19 And I really do like the confluence of of all
5:21 my skills coming together and thinking like, okay,
5:23 I'd like to make a video about virtual power plants
5:27 as a topic that I'm working on a video for.
5:30 And that's boring, you know,
5:31 like you might be a little confused by that, but like yeah,
5:35 there's every potential that like virtual powerpoints will
5:38 be enormously impactful and important in the future.
5:41 And I have to figure out what the best frame for that is.
5:44 The best way to tell that story that is most salient, that gets people to click,
5:48 that gets keeps people watching, that helps them understand what is
5:51 a fairly complicated idea without too much struggle.
5:54 People often think that my job is to teach them about science.
5:57 That is totally not true.
5:59 That's part of it.
6:01 That's part of it.
6:01 But like the biggest part is my job is to get you to care about science,
6:06 which a lot of people do just sort of at a baseline level,
6:09 but like you got to get more people interested in it.
6:12 And so you have to find the story to tell that's the most interesting one.
6:15 And I feel like I'm good at that.
6:16 I think people care about stuff.
6:17 I think that they're curious,
6:18 but like my job is to figure out how to tap into that.
6:21 And I feel like I I want other people to learn this skill.
6:24 I want to help other people learn how to do this well.
6:27 But I also want to do it because I think it's good.
6:29 I want people to be a little more curious than they were 30 seconds ago.
6:33 I feel like the stuff that I do makes people understand
6:35 their world a little bit better than they did 10 minutes ago.
6:39 Makes them a little more curious than they were 10 minutes ago.
6:42 I feel like that's good,
6:43 especially in a world where there's so much content that's like not that.
6:46 You know, there are of course many people who know
6:48 much more than I do about basically everything I talk about.
6:51 That is obviously true.
6:53 Like there are better experts.
6:55 You're not coming to me for expertise.
6:57 I think I'm good at that.
6:58 And so that's one of the reasons why I'm still doing this.
6:59 But and it's not just like that thing.
7:01 It's not just the science communication thing or the education thing.
7:05 It's like the whole thing.
7:06 Like I am not interested in science for the sake of science.
7:10 I am interested in science as an aspect
7:12 of humanity because I am very interested in humanity.
7:15 Humans are the thing that I am most
7:16 interested in because they are the most interesting thing.
7:19 I'm sorry.
7:19 Both like biologically I think we're constructed to care more about humans.
7:22 But also, if you just remove yourself from this situation and look real hard,
7:26 obviously the biosphere as a whole, very interesting.
7:28 But the most interesting individual piece of it is humans.
7:32 I could get into why I think that, but I think that it's true.
7:34 And I think that that's like objectively true.
7:36 I I'm using interesting as like complex,
7:39 multifaceted, bizarre, like unusual, probably very rare.
7:43 There are people who disagree with me about this, but I've
7:46 interfaced with those disagreements and come out still believing what I believe.
7:49 Now, I am also aware that the internet is probably one
7:53 of the worst possible places to do this in like a really careful,
7:57 healthy way cuz the internet does not really reward care.
8:01 It rewards whatever will grab attention and care
8:03 is like a possible route to attention.
8:06 But there are lots of other ones like hatred and certainty and fear
8:10 of the other and outrage and disgust
8:12 and of course superiority and status anxiety.
8:16 All of these things are fantastically efficient ways of moving attention around.
8:21 And I like part of it.
8:23 It's weird because like I'm here on the internet and I
8:25 know there's like not a good way to do the work,
8:29 but it's like the way that I've learned
8:31 to do the work and it's where the people are.
8:35 Not the people, not all the people, but a lot of the people.
8:37 I definitely feel this strange tension between like
8:39 there's a piece of it that's like, "Okay, Hank,
8:42 like this is not the place to be doing
8:44 the work." And there's a piece of it that's like,
8:45 well, I can't abandon this place to the people doing the opposite of the work.
8:50 And I've spent enough time doing this that to feel
8:52 that sometimes I like the versions of myself
8:54 that like would be the most successful on these platforms
8:57 if I let them loose, I know about them.
8:59 But the fact that I know how I would be like a bigger deal on these platforms,
9:04 I know exactly how I would do that and I would be quite good at it.
9:09 The fact that I know that makes me think, well,
9:12 at any given moment, I'm not that version of myself.
9:16 So, I'm not comparing myself to like some on the internet.
9:20 I'm comparing myself to the version of me who
9:22 I would be if I only cared about the numbers.
9:24 And I know that I'm not that guy.
9:26 And that makes me feel good.
9:28 It makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing and I
9:30 should be doing this because I know that a little bit these algorithms,
9:34 they don't make you evil, but they do make you optimize.
9:37 And I think a lot of people who make content don't
9:40 really know what they are being turned into by the sort
9:43 of repeated exposure to the create and watch and see if
9:47 it succeeds cycle because mostly I think you know not all
9:51 but a lot of probably not even the majority but a lot
9:54 of the most successful people really are doing it just
9:58 to do what makes the numbers go up and that that feels
10:01 like it's that's the whole thing and I get that.
10:03 I get that.
10:04 I felt that way when I was younger.
10:06 There are so many people who like think that it's just a way to make
10:08 money or a way to gain status and thus it would seem like as long
10:12 as that is happening then you are doing it right which is not true
10:17 but I get the last thing I want to say here is that and I've
10:19 said this before but historically speaking we
10:21 are absolute babies at all of this we
10:23 do not know what we're doing the machinery of this system is very complex
10:28 and it's being piloted by billions of people at the same time and we're all
10:32 amateurs billions of amateurs all together piloting
10:36 the most impactful communications revolution of all time.
10:40 And so, yeah, we're going to be bad at it.
10:42 And I think that's one reason I keep not leaving.
10:44 I if nothing else, I feel like I have to be in here
10:47 so that I can understand it better because I think that it's so important.
10:52 So, I'm just in here staring at it from the inside.
10:56 And I don't think that I could understand it if I wasn't a part of it.
10:59 And that's not the whole thing.
11:00 There's attention, there's like the feelings of good,
11:03 there's the money, there's all this stuff.
11:05 And part of it is literally just fascination.
11:08 I think it's so interesting and being able to witness it
11:10 from the inside just gives me much more insight into how it actually functions.
11:15 If I was not a creator,
11:16 I would not be able to understand all of the forces at play.
11:20 Not that I understand all the forces at play,
11:21 but I wouldn't understand as many of the forces at play
11:24 as I do because I know that I'm not above all of this.
11:27 I know that I'm not.
11:28 I am influenced tremendously by how the algorithms work,
11:30 by how the different platforms work.
11:32 I create differently based on what
11:34 is rewarded by algorithms on different platforms.
11:36 Absolutely.
11:37 No doubt in my mind the internet has shaped who
11:39 I am as a creator obviously but also as a person.
11:43 I think that it's also damaged me in ways.
11:45 It is of course rewarded me in in many ways.
11:49 I feel as if I have gotten a very good deal out of it.
11:53 But of course it's very frustrating sometimes.
11:55 It it is a frustrating place to practice a craft.
11:57 But it is also really wonderful.
12:00 the piece of it where I am like get that immediate feedback from real people.
12:05 It's really amazing.
12:07 There's nothing like it, man.
12:08 And I think that I am just well suited to it.
12:10 Both because I've been doing it for so long,
12:12 but also I just feel like I was I was like born to it.
12:15 Like I was I am well suited to this world for now.
12:18 I guess eventually I probably will get chewed up and spit out by it,
12:21 but like so far so good.
12:23 20 years, you know, not that it's all been smooth sailing, but good lord.
12:27 And so I'm still here.
12:28 Those are some of the thoughts about why I'm still
12:30 here and and why it all still feels very worth doing,
12:34 which it really does.
12:35 Um, and now, weirdly, because when I was writing this script, I was like,
12:40 who do I know who's been through the ringer in weird ways?
12:44 And who [snorts] do I know who like obviously wants it?
12:46 Who doesn't just want to be a musician,
12:48 but also wants to be an internet thing, like an object of internet.
12:54 And when I was working on this, Baby No Money had just said like,
12:57 "I'm not going to make stuff on the internet for a while." He's back now.
13:00 Uh, and I was like, "Maybe we should talk about this." So,
13:02 I DM'd him and I was like, "Baby No Money,
13:04 come and talk with me about being a person on the internet." So,
13:07 that's a weird direction for this to go.
13:09 I realize that this channel has a strange variety of guests, but let's do this.
13:15 Everybody, here's my chat with Baby No Money.
13:17 He is a musician if you don't know.
13:19 Also, when it comes to being online,
13:21 what I have noticed is that I am happier when I am more in control of it.
13:24 And it's almost as if the older the technology is,
13:26 the more control it gives you.
13:28 The newer the technology is,
13:30 the more control it would like you to give up to it, which is seductive.
13:33 And one technology that is pretty old and still gives me quite a lot of agency,
13:37 though there have been some algorithms introduced
13:40 into it for various reasons and in various ways,
13:41 which aren't necessarily bad reasons, is email.
13:44 I know I'm talking about email right now.
13:46 I'm talking about email as a medium for content.
13:49 Now, a lot of times email is a medium for content
13:52 is annoying because email is also a medium for communication,
13:56 which is a different thing, but my brother and I do have a newsletter.
13:59 It's called we're here.
14:00 We send it out once a week on Friday.
14:02 Usually, sometimes not.
14:04 Usually Friday, you get a little message about what we've been thinking about,
14:08 a little human curated list of cool things from the internet,
14:11 and then like some other stuff, too.
14:13 Keep scrolling, find other delightful little things.
14:15 I don't talk about it that much,
14:16 but there are like 300,000 people signed up for it.
14:20 And our open rates, which are very high for the industry that people
14:24 they make me think that people like it and that it's a good product.
14:26 So, check it out.
14:27 There's a link in the description.
14:28 The video that that I'm doing right now,
14:30 I'm trying to figure out why I'm still on the internet.
14:32 So, I'm about to hit 20 years of being a YouTuber,
14:36 and I don't entirely know why.
14:38 I don't have to for sure.
14:39 I could stop that.
14:40 I have lots of even cool careers that I could have
14:44 and also I already have enough money.
14:46 You also I feel like could have a career just as a musician and you
14:50 could not be super online and we both
14:52 have suffered some consequences of being super online.
14:55 So I thought you would be a good person
14:57 to ask this question to and to talk about this with.
15:01 But why do why do you think I'm still on the internet?
15:03 Maybe deep down within you you're like
15:06 not many people are offered this position.
15:07 Like why why would I stop being a positive wrecking force
15:11 in an environment that most of the time just breeds negativity?
15:14 I think about this all the time, too.
15:16 Yeah, I'm asking you this question in part because
15:17 I think it probably is going to say a lot
15:19 about what you think about your role and like
15:22 you're definitely hitting things that are on my list.
15:25 We are humans.
15:26 Humans love attention.
15:27 Sometimes people are like, you know, you're an attention seeker.
15:30 And I'm like, yeah, but we all are.
15:33 Like it's we're we're just human in the end of the day.
15:36 There's a lot of science communicators in the world.
15:38 There's a lot of musicians in the world.
15:39 We don't have to be as online as we are.
15:41 And yet we are.
15:42 I'm very compelled by it.
15:43 I feel like you're very compelled by it.
15:45 Is that track?
15:46 Yeah, I'm addicted to it.
15:47 When I grew up, I was I was homeschooled until high school.
15:49 I didn't have very many friends.
15:51 And I met a lot of my friends on World of Warcraft or Diablo.
15:55 And just having that
15:57 sanctuary, I guess, to be online and be that person, be someone else,
16:02 just gave me comfort.
16:03 I don't know why I enjoy doing what I do.
16:07 I I think I'm really good at it, you know?
16:09 Like I That could be a big part of it.
16:12 That could be a big part of it.
16:13 Like just being good at it.
16:14 Like I see a lot of people who aren't good at it and I'm like
16:17 I think maybe I like this because I'm not bad at it.
16:19 Like I actually can surf this wave or at least I feel like I can.
16:22 At least in the m musician world majority of the time
16:25 when people are like I hate posting Tik Toks.
16:28 I'm like, "Yeah, but you wouldn't if they did." Well,
16:30 it's a musician, [laughter] you know, like sometimes sometimes I get,
16:36 you know, when I put a song out,
16:37 obviously the most important thing is for people to listen to my music.
16:40 I am a musician.
16:41 I get it.
16:42 But I know that there are mediums to get people to listen to my music.
16:45 I put a song out and a Tik Tok does terrible.
16:47 I'm like, that sucks.
16:49 PE, not as many people are going to be
16:50 able to hear that I've just released a new song.
16:52 I've spent thousands of dollars,
16:55 thousands of dollars to get 20 Tik Toks that did,
16:59 let's say, 20 million views in total.
17:01 Or, you know, I posted a video of me putting a filter on my ex-girlfriend's
17:05 face and it did 21 million views and I was like, "Wow, I put
17:09 6 seconds of effort onto this puppy."
17:11 So, LA didn't I mean like was a a internet effect.
17:17 This is your first big hit.
17:18 Big internet effect, but not really one that you in any way I don't know.
17:22 I I'm guessing like felt like you had any control
17:25 of like you you weren't trying to do something there.
17:28 You didn't know what was up
17:30 there.
17:30 Yes and no.
17:31 I remember when I made this song like the day I made it, uh Y2K,
17:35 the producer was like,
17:36 "We need to leave the house because this is an incredible song."
17:40 And we only we only wrote the pre-hook, like the the the part where it's like,
17:44 "Oh, did I really just forget that melody?" Uh and that's that's a natural take.
17:48 Did I really just forget that melody?
17:50 No.
17:55 when we made this, you know, we finished the hook and he was just like,
17:58 "We need to leave the house now because I think we just made something." Yeah.
18:02 You had that feeling that you sometimes get as a creator where you're like,
18:07 I need to I need to spend time with this one because this is good.
18:10 This has And it was the first like departure of semi
18:13 singrap singingesque that I had done at the time.
18:18 Do I think I gave it the absolute best
18:20 shot my career has like ever had at that point?
18:24 Yes.
18:24 I posted La La L June 7th every single day like 90 times until it came out.
18:32 Yeah.
18:31 So, statistically when the song came out on average I would be doing about
18:35 24,000 streams a day and then this song did like 90,000 and I was like,
18:42 "Yeah,
18:41 wow." And at that time, like my catalog was doing like 400,000 plays a day.
18:44 So I was like, "Holy[ __] I think we might have something here." Yeah.
18:48 Yeah.
18:48 So you had you had like a base that you were launching from.
18:51 This wasn't like completely out of nowhere.
18:53 Somebody just picked it off.
18:54 Yeah.
18:54 Yeah.
18:54 Yeah.
18:54 I was like making money.
18:56 I was doing good.
18:57 I had a song earlier go viral on TikTok
18:59 called Nursery when these diamonds [music] look like respect.
19:03 A little bit of sauce, but no, there's no way anyone can ever have a song
19:08 that popular by default unless you're a triple triple AAA artist.
19:12 I was fascinated.
19:13 And I was listening to an interview with you.
19:14 We were you talking about this line that everybody hates.
19:17 This is a silly line of I am Henz M&
19:22 which is like very much like when I heard it I was like I
19:25 know that this guy is does not think that he's the Gen Z M&M.
19:28 I know that this guy is sort of like like the most generous
19:31 uh version of it is he's like doing social commentary on his own persona.
19:35 He's like saying like here's my here's my ridiculous persona.
19:38 I'm owning this ridiculousness of this persona and the ridiculousness of all,
19:42 you know, big talk ego in music.
19:45 But then you in this interview,
19:47 you're talking about h how you you like decided to keep it in in part,
19:50 maybe not in whole, but in part because you knew it was
19:53 going to gather attention like people I think you used the word pressed.
19:57 People were going to be pressed and they were going
19:59 to be not be able to not have discourse about it without question.
20:04 I mean I'm you are an educated individual.
20:07 Um, [laughter] so if someone actually taps into what
20:11 I talk about and how I hold myself online,
20:14 like I am very much so myself.
20:15 Yes, I do ridiculous fun[ __] but that's because I can.
20:19 And it's like, [laughter] you know,
20:20 it's I'm I make enough money to be like, you know what?
20:24 I'm going to go spend $14,000 and put myself in a toilet for a red carpet.
20:29 Why not?
20:29 I want to get people to feel something.
20:32 If it makes them feel uncomfortable, I'm like, "Wow,
20:36 why is he doing that?" Or if it makes them feel like, "That's funny."
20:40 That's all that matters to me because I'm an entertainer, right?
20:43 Like entertainment is what pushes the narrative forward, specifically mine.
20:47 But at the same time, it's like I don't know if I'm doing anything right.
20:50 And I also don't know if I'm doing anything wrong.
20:52 It's easy to look around in the world of of media and be like,
20:56 "Well, I'm not as bad as that guy, you know?" Yeah, totally.
20:59 But I but I I try to not fall into that trap and to be thinking about,
21:03 okay, not not like I'm better than,
21:05 but like am I doing the the best thing I can with the the powers
21:10 that I have gathered around myself and been given by other people,
21:13 which is tricky because it's paralyzing.
21:16 And I think that that's one thing that you really don't want
21:18 as an artist is to feel that pressure all of the time.
21:22 um to to feel to feel like I can't create because I'm locked inside
21:26 of the box of trying to have everything I do be positive and you know
21:30 knowing that that's that's impossible like some
21:32 group of people are going to be affected
21:34 in a negative way by what you do if you're doing anything interesting at all.
21:37 One of the things that I like like about your work is it seems like one
21:40 one thing you're trying to do it feels like to me is just have a good time.
21:46 Yeah, that's the ethos.
21:47 Like no matter what, like the baseline is like, we're all going to die,
21:52 right?
21:53 Like I'm at the rate I'm pushing myself to, you know, I just had a mamogram.
21:57 You're going to be fine.
21:58 I had a mammogram.
21:59 Yeah, I had a mamogram last week and I have a cyst
22:01 in in my right under my right areola and it's benign,
22:05 but like my doc is like, you should probably remove it.
22:07 Things are starting to hit the fan.
22:09 You know,
22:10 you're of the age where I'm Yeah, I'm of the age.
22:12 I'm of the age.
22:13 So I will say as a cancer survivor, guys get breast cancer.
22:16 If you find a lump, get it checked out.
22:18 That's not a thing that doesn't happen.
22:19 And in fact, it men have much worse outcomes with breast
22:22 cancer because they tend to not get it checked out.
22:23 That makes actually a ton of sense.
22:25 Cuz I was like, breast cancer?
22:26 Huh?
22:27 Okay.
22:28 It's It's very unusual, but it happens.
22:30 Yeah, it's very unusual.
22:31 Yeah.
22:31 I was looking into it.
22:32 I was like, "Oh, okay, cool." I mean,
22:33 it's pretty funny that like, see, this is how my brain works.
22:36 Baby, no money, breast cancer.
22:39 It's like, you know what I mean?
22:42 I don't know.
22:42 I mean, every day I think I'm like, why am I still doing this?
22:45 I have a platform now.
22:47 I won't have a platform later because I will want to get on with my life.
22:52 Um, everyone will be done with us, you know.
22:54 Yeah.
22:54 Yeah.
22:55 Exactly.
22:55 In what capacity?
22:56 I'm not sure.
22:57 Right now, I have a platform that in a world
23:00 of absolute defeat and hatred and animosity with everything going on.
23:06 Why not just be a humanitarian?
23:08 That's the last like the literally the only
23:11 single thing is uplift other human beings.
23:14 And it's like, why wouldn't I do that?
23:16 The most visible part of what you do uh is probably for me
23:20 just being on my feed and you're doing silly stuff and you're
23:23 collaborating with people who I know like friends of mine or like
23:26 people who I don't know and who are doing weird cosplay stuff.
23:29 So that's like a visible part looks pretty fun.
23:31 There's the part I know is super fun because I've
23:33 done a little bit of it which is performing on stage.
23:36 So, like there's nothing really like more fun than that for me
23:40 in the world than like being like feeling like that control
23:43 over an audience and and sort of having like that appreciation
23:47 sort of shown back upon me in this very physical way.
23:50 And then there's like the part that nobody sees,
23:53 which is the part where you're actually making the things, not the videos,
23:57 but the the music, the actual like working with a producer or or writing lyrics,
24:03 which I've done a little bit of in my life.
24:04 And like it's very rewarding and weird and and like
24:07 fun in a totally different way where you're kind of locked
24:10 into this in the in the best moments like flowing
24:14 through this experience of turning an idea into a thing.
24:18 I mean how I've always looked at it is like if I
24:20 didn't start making music I don't know if I would be happy.
24:23 So I broke my back in grade 12
24:24 and I went through like a very tumultuous relationship.
24:27 my first like love
24:29 and then was cheated on horrendously and I was like in my feelings
24:33 and uh I started writing poetry and and through that like the only thing
24:37 that really keeps me emotionally sane is like making music whether or not it'd
24:42 be good obviously you know it's like I make a good song I'm like I
24:46 really like this is cool I would listen to this I want to put
24:49 this out I want the world to see this I think most artists
24:52 and and creatives kind of feel the exact same way I I don't know
24:56 what type of a feeling it is or like how to like effectively describe it.
24:59 You make something that you're proud of.
25:01 It's a it's like a figment of your personality.
25:04 It's a figment of your creativity.
25:05 It's like you put love into it.
25:07 You put every type of emotion.
25:09 You could hate it for all I know.
25:10 And you put it out and you see
25:12 the appreciation of like specifically my fan base.
25:15 Like I I know what my fan base is.
25:17 When I hang out with my fans, they're like they might be starruck sometimes,
25:21 but I can tell deep down that I'm like you guys are just like me.
25:26 everybody and they're they're just we're just weirdos, you know?
25:29 It's like and and it's like I'm offering
25:31 them a space to be themselves and experience like
25:35 freedom at my shows at least and being a good role
25:37 model in that sense where I'm like I'm just being myself online.
25:41 And it's never too late to just be you.
25:43 And when I make music, I really feel like all of those emotions
25:47 like all like every single thing I've listed all
25:50 in one because sometimes I get behind the mic
25:52 and I just like I'm like, "All right, guys.
25:53 I walk in and I just say a bunch of gibberish and sometimes you
25:56 hit like this like this flow state and you're like I know that was good.
26:00 That sounds amazing.
26:01 You hit the pocket right.
26:02 Albeit at the same time I've made like probably 10,000 songs at this point.
26:05 So I'm I'm a professional with knowing what would sound good and I
26:10 have like I think I genuinely have pretty good taste in music.
26:13 So that helps a lot too.
26:14 I like genuinely wholeheartedly believe making a cool good song,
26:18 making a song that I enjoy is the greatest
26:21 feeling I've ever felt in my entire life.
26:22 And that is
26:24 the the [snorts] reason why I do this is because I love making music.
26:28 I understand I, you know,
26:30 I have a business now and I have people that rely on me financially.
26:33 I like the business side of things, too.
26:36 But every single time I'm like, why am I doing this?
26:38 And I'm like, think about 17-year-old or or 16-year-old
26:42 Alex being like, I was so depressed
26:45 and I had nothing.
26:46 I I know I was going to school to help people
26:49 because I understand so much about my psycholog like so much psychologically
26:54 about my pain that I was like I can be empathetic because
26:57 I know how much it sucks to be I'm in chronic pain.
27:01 So I was like I know how much it I know like I know how to deal with that
27:05 and I know that a lot of like
27:07 health practitioners don't really have that in them
27:10 because they're like textbook you know it's like
27:12 hey I'm going to go read a textbook.
27:13 I'm gonna get pacifying colors and then you have no pe people skills
27:18 and it's like most of the time people just want to be heard when
27:21 they're te talking to you about their pain and stuff like that but without
27:25 all of this without music man I like I don't know if I would
27:30 still be on the planet to be honest it kind it really saved my life.
27:33 Do you feel like that the business is just is marketing the music?
27:37 Is that part of is that like just to lead into enabling
27:41 the music or is or do you enjoy that part too?
27:43 I like it.
27:44 It's addicting.
27:45 Full stop.
27:45 It's a lot more addicting when it hits.
27:48 And when it hits,
27:50 I am really good at recognizing the appeal of things and then I lean into it.
27:55 The moment I saw you make that Tik Tok.
27:58 My name is Joseph and I'm in the best shape of my life.
28:00 Hi Joseph, I'm Hank.
28:01 I am not in the best shape of my life, but I can do this.
28:04 Balls hanging low while I pop a bottle off a yacht.
28:06 Chain swanging.
28:07 Cling clang.
28:07 And it cost a lot.
28:09 __] I'm always after gua yacht.
28:09 And you are not bad ass beat.
28:11 Keep on going till it hit the spot.
28:12 Whoa.
28:13 I was like, [laughter][ __] I have to lean into this.
28:18 Yeah.
28:18 Yeah.
28:19 Yeah.
28:19 Yeah.
28:19 Yeah.
28:20 When things occur, it's inspiring.
28:22 And also like
28:24 you you want to do like your third idea
28:25 because you want to do something people don't expect.
28:28 I I mean I didn't do a TikTok to edamame, by the way.
28:31 I just did Edamame.
28:33 Yeah.
28:34 Yeah.
28:34 True.
28:34 You what what was the thought process behind that?
28:37 Like I'm so curious.
28:39 I know.
28:39 I think that what happened uh was was
28:42 that I had been listening to the song a lot
28:44 and I I I I knew it and I knew people wouldn't expect that I would know it.
28:49 Usually if somebody asked a question, I'll answer the question.
28:51 Sometimes I will start start as if I'm going to answer
28:54 the question and then I will make some kind of joke.
28:56 And that was what this was, I think, if I remember correctly.
28:59 No, that makes sense.
29:00 I mean, my thought process was like, what?
29:04 [laughter] I bet.
29:04 I bet.
29:05 It's very weird.
29:06 Uh, music is especially weird.
29:07 And I I you know, I was once in a uh, you know,
29:10 nerdy punky rock band and and had great times playing small rooms and just,
29:16 you know, a couple hundred people was all you need to have an amazing time.
29:19 Yeah.
29:20 And and so I I I know that a little bit,
29:22 but but it it definitely feels very different from uh
29:27 what you do in that the reach means that you
29:32 know I might say I'm going to be interviewing Baby
29:34 No Money and people are going to be like who's that?
29:35 And then I'm like sing a bar of La La Lame and people are like oh yeah that guy.
29:40 The reach of the content it music has fingers man.
29:44 It just like it goes and it stays and it
29:46 it reaches once it hits a certain level big time.
29:49 I'm going to finally get into this.
29:50 Uh, you you posted a not not too long ago a Tik Tok that was like,
29:54 uh, everybody's mad at me.
29:56 Everybody doesn't like me.
29:56 I'm apparently I'm[ __] cringe now.
29:58 So, if you don't want me to make music anymore,
30:01 if this video gets a a million likes, I'll stop.
30:04 How many likes did it get?
30:06 Like five.
30:07 [laughter] Why did you make that knowing?
30:13 So
30:14 that there was a chance that you're just gonna kind
30:16 of get sort of like gleefully taken to the cleaners.
30:19 I get hated on a lot for having I
30:23 would say ethical slash morally correct opinions about things.
30:27 Well, or having opinions at all.
30:29 This I mean I I get the same kind of thing where it's like hey I
30:32 I don't just stick to science science man
30:34 or uh also like stop trying to be good.
30:38 You know people don't like it when you're trying to be good.
30:41 It's like the vegan problem where like the real reason people
30:44 don't like vegans is because they're like kind of right, you know?
30:47 It's like you you're right.
30:48 Like you are ethically superior to me.
30:51 Like no doubt.
30:52 Correct.
30:53 So people are like vegans can't shut up about being vegan.
30:55 I'm like no your brain can't shut up about
30:57 how you're living an unethical lifestyle and you know it.
31:01 No.
31:01 No.
31:01 I mean without question I mean in theory people can look at it as virtue
31:04 signaling but at the same time it's like
31:06 most people are like oh he's so performative.
31:08 Oh a musician performing.
31:10 Oh yeah.
31:10 Crazy.
31:10 And then some people are like, "Yo,
31:12 he's a left leftwing grifter." And I was like, "You cannot grift for humanity.
31:17 I [laughter] am sorry.
31:18 Like you you you just can't do that.
31:20 I'm sorry.
31:20 I grew up in a very very I was very fortunate to grow
31:23 up in a very loving household and my mom like really like
31:27 honed it in with my brother, sister, and I and like
31:30 we have a very loving relationship.
31:31 I go home for Christmas,
31:32 the greatest time of year." This break was in theory a break.
31:37 I I I knew what I was doing.
31:40 You know, it's like me saying this, I know that there's people
31:42 that like just wake up and they're seething of hate and they're like,
31:46 "I hate baby no money."
31:47 And not very many.
31:48 I'll say it was not five million of them.
31:50 What like my experience is that there's like there's
31:53 a group of haters and they pour gasoline and like that's,
31:57 you know, and then they burn stuff that wouldn't otherwise burn,
32:00 but boy, they could they could pour some gasoline.
32:02 But I I think that there are a lot of people who are like, "Ah,
32:04 that guy's kind of cringe." And that's all
32:06 that it takes to click like on that video.
32:08 So cringe is a is a is is an interesting concept because sure is
32:12 everything is fundamentally cringe.
32:14 I could turn around and be like hey green cringe
32:17 and I didn't like it when you said it.
32:18 You [laughter] know even that.
32:21 Exactly.
32:20 But the thing is is if I am living my life to try to be
32:24 something that isn't quote cringe then I'm not
32:28 being myself and that in itself is cringe.
32:31 You know do you know you must know play by Cardi right?
32:35 Yeah.
32:33 This is my hot take.
32:35 He is so cool that it's cringe.
32:38 There is no way like a normal human being.
32:41 Yeah.
32:42 There's no way he's that cool.
32:43 There's no way that like everyone is like, "Oh,
32:46 I got to be like him." Like, you know,
32:49 I am music.
32:51 Right.
32:51 Well, what are we talking about?
32:53 It's playing the game like like one like it's it's a performance
32:56 that doesn't the trick to performance is have it not look like a performance.
33:00 And I'm not saying that this specifically about played by Cardi.
33:03 I'm saying it about every every musician and and it used to be easier.
33:07 It's it's way easier if you're not if you don't put yourself out there as much.
33:11 You know, I feel like it's much more controlled and you know,
33:13 you and I are not playing the game of not putting ourselves out there as much.
33:17 I think of like uh Bo Burnham that I'm like
33:20 the anti-bo Burnham where Bo Burnham goes away for three years,
33:22 he comes back with something genius and then he disappears again.
33:25 And I'm like, "Yeah, I could not do that." instead uh
33:28 of being G like really genius every three years,
33:32 I'm going to be pretty stupid every day.
33:34 That's how you get Hank, you know, that's that's how I'm playing the game.
33:38 And I think that of like of course you're going to see seem
33:40 more cringe in that world because you're
33:41 actually displaying more of who you are.
33:44 And that means not being everything to everyone,
33:47 but being like one thing to the people who like that thing.
33:50 I think there's so many subsects of the internet.
33:52 Like hypothetical world,
33:53 let's say I turned around and made
33:56 um psychedelic sex doll orgasm music next week.
34:03 There is some world that people will be like,
34:05 "That's what I got to listen to." And then they will fall in.
34:09 And it's like everybody is different
34:11 and everyone has different opinions on things,
34:14 but there are so many people like I I am an ant still
34:19 in this world of like social media and everything and this and that.
34:22 I will like and I will keep growing every day.
34:25 Every day there's someone else that's oh
34:27 I just started listening to your music today.
34:28 I'm like that's insane.
34:30 Like I can't believe that you found my music
34:32 today after I've been doing this for 10 years.
34:34 So it's a it's an interesting concept for sure.
34:37 Do you still feel like the pressure to capitalize
34:39 on everything that's happening at every every moment?
34:42 To answer honestly, yes.
34:45 Why would not?
34:46 Because it's fun.
34:47 It's entertainment for me.
34:48 It it gives me purpose.
34:52 Yes.
34:52 Do I think I'm a workaholic?
34:54 For sure.
34:55 Do I think that's, you know,
34:57 speaking as modestly as I can, my greatest downfall?
34:59 Honestly, yeah.
35:00 I've had two girlfriends break up with me because I work too much.
35:04 And I get it.
35:05 like I don't I don't prioritize uh intimacy as much as I should.
35:09 And I'm empathetic for them for that.
35:11 But it's like it's not in my time.
35:13 This is not my time to settle down and have a kid uh
35:16 and and to develop a significant relationship
35:19 because it's my time to be a spokesperson,
35:22 be a role model for people online and stuff like that.
35:25 Well, yeah.
35:25 Or like Yeah.
35:26 I I mean it's also like I don't know how much you feel like this is okay,
35:31 but like just playing the game.
35:33 attention is the right frame.
35:34 We're well suited to the attention world and I
35:39 think both because like we're good at making the content
35:42 and because we care about that, like we want
35:44 to make something that's going to get that, you know,
35:47 not just because we like like the feeling,
35:49 but because we think what we're doing is good, you know?
35:51 I don't know.
35:51 I feel like I have this conversation with so many people.
35:53 It never really gets to the point where I have
35:55 an answer because I don't know if I ever will.
35:58 Sure.
35:58 You know, something I was talking uh with a friend of mine years ago was like,
36:05 we could all be like incredibly damaged inside.
36:10 We still don't know the the long-term effects
36:14 of our brain being fried by brain rot.
36:17 Like, you know what I mean?
36:17 Like, we really don't know yet because it's
36:20 like it's like all this new peptide craze.
36:22 It's like nobody really knows where it's at.
36:25 You know, there's been like two or three years of decent clinical studies.
36:30 I in 10 years could be like a class one brain rot dead person,
36:39 you know, and my mind could be actually fried.
36:42 And yeah, I mean, I don't think that your mind's going to be fried,
36:44 but I do think that our minds are different than they otherwise would be.
36:47 Like, there's no doubt about that.
36:49 Yeah.
36:49 Yeah.
36:49 There's no there's no doubt about that.
36:50 But it's interesting because it's like there's just
36:52 still not enough study on any of this.
36:54 Yeah.
36:54 It's also new.
36:55 Like I the thing that I I keep trying to tell people is like the we're babies.
36:59 Like the people running these platforms have no idea
37:02 how to run the platforms because they've never existed before.
37:04 The people using them have no idea how
37:05 to use them because they've never existed before.
37:07 This is all brand new.
37:08 There's never been anything like this in the history of humans.
37:11 And it is being tuned so precisely
37:14 to hack right into our most powerful reward centers.
37:17 considering the directions that you can go consider
37:20 like and one of those one of the big
37:21 directions that I think is super destructive is
37:24 like hate and outrage like trying to get people's
37:27 attention by being like oh that thing you
37:29 like it's actually really bad you know vaccines actually
37:32 they're really bad oh baby no money he's
37:35 actually really bad I can't tell you why exactly
37:37 it is easier to relate in hate than it is in positivity um
37:42 yeah that's totally true like in terms
37:44 of like creating social connection Like all cults are
37:48 kind of based on them being the good
37:50 people and everybody else being the bad people.
37:52 Yeah.
37:52 It's like let's say we didn't wake we
37:53 woke up today and we both didn't have coffee.
37:56 We would probably be complaining.
37:57 I don't know if you drink coffee,
37:58 but we both probably be complaining that we didn't have coffee.
38:01 And complaints and frustrations.
38:04 Yeah.
38:03 Uh are definitely an easier way to like relate to someone.
38:07 If it's something that we have in common, it's just like it's less vulnerable
38:10 at the very least to hate something together.
38:12 and and in social spaces where it's dangerous to be vulnerable,
38:16 which a lot of internet spaces are, you know, being vulnerable is cringe.
38:19 And so like in cringe policed places and I think that this happens
38:24 to social platforms like they start off like not that policed like you start off
38:29 with it kind of being okay to be cringe and it's very collaborative and then
38:32 as time goes on it becomes more socially valuable to succeed in these spaces.
38:35 it becomes much more dangerous to fail in them
38:39 and so it becomes more cringe policed and suddenly
38:42 you are looking for safe ways to connect
38:44 and a safer way to connect is hate rather than appreciation.
38:47 Every single day I wake up now it's like something else
38:51 on on you specifically or No no no not not me just like the linearity
38:56 of frustration online is just specifically on Twitter is bad.
39:01 Twitter.
39:02 I think that it is it is the the worst of them,
39:04 but I think that they all have their their consequences on on me for sure.
39:09 I mean, for instance, like my TikTok algorithm, it's baked.
39:13 Like I sometimes I'll just see a bunch
39:15 of frogs doing back flips and I'm like, dope.
39:17 That's Well, that's what I that's what I miss.
39:20 They're used [clears throat] They used to be like that.
39:21 And now mine is like full of like uh 10-minute videos on cultural commentary.
39:26 And I'm like, what?
39:27 How did I [laughter] how did I end up with this like dork ass Tik Tok?
39:31 I feel like there's gonna be some better thing that's gonna come along.
39:34 Like it's been too long.
39:35 I mean, the most recent like stick of hope was Manny.
39:40 Yeah.
39:40 Yeah.
39:41 I was like just like a happy looking guy who seems like he wants to lead.
39:45 Yeah.
39:45 I was like, "Wow, this is good." You know,
39:47 it's like also I met I was at some Spotify party
39:50 last night and I and I met an actor from Heated Rivalry.
39:53 He came up to me.
39:54 He's like, "Dude, Alex, what's good?" And I'm like,
39:56 "Oh my god, you came up to me." [laughter]
40:00 And um because I held a sign up at a hockey game.
40:03 I was saying like, "Yo, heated I love heated rivalry." Cuz like
40:06 I remember the moment it started popping,
40:08 I was like, "Oh, this is the greatest thing
40:10 that the NHL has probably had." And I'm like, I'm kidding.
40:13 I'm a hockey fan by default, but I like I don't like I'm not like
40:17 slamming my head across the board when the Knucks lose.
40:21 But yeah, they're they're not doing too hot.
40:23 But regardless, it's like things like that where it's like culturally moving.
40:28 Yeah.
40:29 Something I realized when I did take this break,
40:31 I'd be like, hm, you know, go on TikTok and I like why?
40:38 You know, like why
40:40 do you feel like that's because you're you're you like one of the reasons
40:43 that I go on TikTok is to check and see how my Tik Toks have done.
40:47 Like if if I'm posting a lot, I'm also scrolling a lot.
40:50 And if I'm not posting a lot,
40:51 I'm not scrolling as much because a big part of it for me is checking on things.
40:57 And that's partially like is it succeeding?
40:59 It's partially like did I say something that people are mad about?
41:02 Cuz that also happens.
41:03 Which gives me a question that I I want to ask you.
41:08 How much do you pay attention to the haters?
41:11 So there's like there there's haters that are like obviously full of[ __]
41:16 but then there's people who've got who
41:17 are like doing hopefully somewhat if assholy,
41:22 you know, you're still like can learn something from their take maybe.
41:28 Do you at all?
41:29 I think that they are more beneficial than people who like you.
41:33 You're looking at it as like information.
41:35 Yeah.
41:36 I I basically, you know, I will read a comment that gets if someone is
41:42 like hating on me and the top comment is like massive,
41:44 then I'm like, "Okay, let's play into it."
41:46 I had a conversation with my therapist once and I was like,
41:48 "I'm about to tell you something and you're going
41:49 to think that this the story I'm telling you is about
41:52 how this hurt my feelings and I need you to understand
41:55 that it did not at all." This was the comment.
41:58 I've got a bottle of wine ready for when your cancer comes back.
42:01 And like in in no way did that make me feel any amount of anything except like,
42:08 oh that's that's interesting that that there
42:10 are people sort of like that are there.
42:12 That's really a signal to like I would like
42:14 I would now like Hank's fans to attack me,
42:17 you know, like it didn't even feel like it was directed at me.
42:19 It felt like it was directed at like I want to stir a pot.
42:22 she has a hard time like accepting that I'm
42:26 seeing that as like data rather than as like
42:29 a really to sort of terrible thing that's like can weigh on me and I'm just like
42:35 I there was a time when it would have but like I don't know if if
42:38 if like that kind of stuff still cut deep I'd just be bleeding on the floor.
42:44 Yeah.
42:45 I feel something that I realized early is like keyboard turners.
42:50 They'll they'll say anything online and sometimes like
42:53 if they see me in real life, oh yo, you'll pay me no money.
42:55 I love your music.
42:56 And it's like I get it.
42:58 Like talk[ __] online all you want.
43:00 You know, I took a political stance against
43:02 Asmin because I kind of disagree with what
43:05 he has been doing and how he's been like navigating that world a little bit.
43:10 Yeah.
43:09 And I genuinely used to be a fan.
43:11 like I used to play tons of World of Warcraft and big fan of him and for only
43:16 there was only like a week where I went to war with him on Twitter and
43:21 let me tell you I lost for sure.
43:23 Um but in that moment I told my team I was like
43:28 I don't know how crazy these individuals are
43:32 right I mean how like so first of all before you
43:35 get to the what I I think is really important how much
43:38 did it like hurt to lose in that moment like when you
43:40 felt like I like you saw the ratios going the other way?
43:43 I didn't really give a[ __] Um I was
43:45 in the Philippines so I was having a good time.
43:47 Uh [clears throat] I was just like wow people are like viscerally mad at me.
43:52 Yeah.
43:52 Um, but okay.
43:54 The thing is is like, so you went to your team?
43:58 Yeah.
43:58 So I went to my team and I was like,
43:59 when I do a next show in Austin, should we get security?
44:02 I don't know if these people Yeah.
44:05 go outside.
44:06 I don't know what type of energy they they hold.
44:09 It really only t it only takes one of them, you know.
44:11 Yeah.
44:11 Exactly.
44:12 And it's like I am not threatened.
44:14 I don't think I am threatened.
44:15 I I also think that like I'm very if you know, you know, um about my career.
44:21 It's like people have been recognizing me more on the street and stuff like
44:25 that, but at the same time it's like whether or not you hate me or like me,
44:29 it's like I feel people can look at me and be you know what,
44:35 I'm going to let him be and I'm I'mma let go of my hatred kind of thing
44:40 cuz what's the point?
44:41 Like he's just going to keep doing exactly what he's doing.
44:44 He's not going to change.
44:45 like and the the the the reason why I wanted to post
44:50 the retirement thing is cuz I I noticed a severe uptick of hate and I was like,
44:56 "Yeah, I I think that it was just like it was starting
44:58 to be cool to hate you." It was just like a thing.
45:03 It still is.
45:03 It's awesome.
45:05 Um[ __] I'd hate myself.
45:07 But the thing is is I like playing things.
45:10 But do you feel a little bit of the the remorse
45:14 that like there's great music out there that people are
45:16 just are not going to be able to like look
45:18 as good as you use the tools as good as you?
45:21 They don't want to be Tik Tockers.
45:22 They just want to be musicians.
45:26 Yeah.
45:26 But it's what it is.
45:27 It is what it is.
45:28 I used to be like I don't want to post.
45:32 I just want to kind of live my life and make music.
45:35 But I had a really bad year in 2024.
45:39 uh emotionally and I was like I'm gonna give it my all
45:44 in 2025 and I want to see where it takes me.
45:48 And the thing I really love the most about my business is
45:51 it's like the more you put in the more you get out
45:55 whether it be financial or whether it be just rewarding.
46:00 Yeah.
45:59 And the greatest reward for me is yes I'm an analytic guy.
46:02 I I come from a mathematic background.
46:04 My dad is like he used to do all his taxes and accounting on paper.
46:08 He's a psychopath.
46:10 Um, but I really love analytics.
46:15 Uh, whether it be healthier or not,
46:17 but I used to I used to have people on the left side being like,
46:20 "Don't look at analytics.
46:21 It doesn't matter." I used to have people on the right side be like,
46:23 "This is all that matters." And I would be torn because I would be like,
46:27 "I'm unsure what I should care about." But
46:31 something I kind of gave into was just like being okay with what I like
46:36 and and and finding the joys and the things
46:38 that I like because that's what matters more importantly, right?
46:42 So in in theory, do I think looking at analytics is great for the business?
46:48 Yes.
46:48 Do I think it's bad for my mental health?
46:50 Probably.
46:50 Someone told me recently it's like if you're going to scroll,
46:54 scroll with all your heart.
46:56 [laughter] And and no, but but like seriously,
46:59 it's like if you're going to go on a walk and not touch your phone,
47:02 don't touch your phone.
47:05 Yeah.
47:03 If you're going to do anything, do it amazingly.
47:08 Do it perfectly.
47:08 It's just it's just a it's an amazing sentence because it
47:11 doesn't sound like something you can do with all your heart,
47:13 but it absolutely is.
47:15 Yeah.
47:16 Exactly.
47:16 You can do it with intention and with attention.
47:18 When you're a creator, you could be like,
47:20 "What am I learning right now?" What surprises me about this is because I know
47:24 how awesome it is to be on a stage performing a song that you wrote,
47:29 having people perform it back at you,
47:30 that that's not what you're listing as like the top what
47:34 you're listing as the top is is like the internet feelings.
47:40 I don't don't get me wrong.
47:41 I love touring.
47:42 I love seeing my fans.
47:43 I love seeing the reaction.
47:45 It's a top three, but it's like touring is shaving years off my life.
47:51 It is hard.
47:52 It is hard.
47:53 No, it is hard.
47:54 Yeah, I have a tour bus.
47:55 I'm taking two semis out on the road.
47:57 I love that.
47:59 It is difficult.
48:00 Like the hour and a half to two hours I am on stage.
48:04 Bliss.
48:04 Pure bliss.
48:05 Like I don't know if anything will ever give me that feeling.
48:09 I used to be a competitive swimmer and you know I used to do like 100 200 fly.
48:13 That is the most painful thing I have ever experienced.
48:18 Like physically demanding.
48:20 Like by the end of it, you're every single muscle is completely exhausted.
48:24 Like all your ATP is just chowed away.
48:28 Yeah.
48:27 And it's like that.
48:28 It's like something that you know you're giving it your all.
48:32 And you know that in that moment that's all you have.
48:36 And it's like it's like the heat of the moment.
48:38 It's it's so it's so invigorating.
48:40 It's it's very very very beautiful.
48:42 But when I look at touring, oh my god, it's going to be a long one.
48:47 It's going to be painful.
48:48 And I have enough physical like injuries and this and that.
48:52 And like you get sick probably three times in about two months
48:56 and it's like, okay,
48:57 we got to take 700 billion milligrams of zinc and elderberry today.
49:01 [laughter] Um for for me, like doing comedy,
49:03 the worst part is always right after the show
49:06 where you're so high and there's nowhere to put it.
49:09 Yeah.
49:09 And you just have to like go to your lonely hotel room by yourself.
49:12 And I'm like, I get why people do drugs now.
49:15 Uh and I just like to sleep because I'm so amped up.
49:19 My heart rate doesn't come down for like four hours.
49:23 Uh but man, it's it's for those two hours, man.
49:28 They're Yeah, it's bliss.
49:29 They're worth it.
49:30 And yeah, I really I don't really partake in many drug activities.
49:33 I am a health nut, so it does help me like the longevity of touring.
49:38 Uh, but yeah, you know, you do a show,
49:42 you get off stage, you have like a you roll up a cigarette,
49:45 there's there's just like all the nerves are coming down.
49:49 Maybe I should be getting some Zins.
49:52 Hey, man.
49:54 [laughter] Zins are not endorsed by Hank Green, Science Guy.
50:00 Just for clarity.
50:02 I got too addicted to them.
50:03 I did a tour in Scandinavia and my lord do those ones hit.
50:08 So I'm [laughter] I'm I'm weaning off of them.
50:11 Those Scandinavian Zins.
50:13 Okay.
50:14 Yeah.
50:14 It's crazy.
50:15 Not like those Saskatchewan zins back home.
50:17 I'm uh I'm I'm weaning off of them right now.
50:19 I got I definitely got addicted.
50:20 I remember I was talking to my therapist.
50:21 I was like, uh I think I'm addicted to nicotine.
50:25 And she was like probably it's really addictive.
50:29 I don't know.
50:29 Maybe I should make a video about this.
50:30 But I I feel I I get the impression from people a lot
50:32 that they think that like vaping is just as bad as cigarettes.
50:34 And I'm like, look, if you're addicted to cigarettes, you need to start vaping.
50:37 Like cigarettes are a one-way ticket to death.
50:41 Yeah.
50:41 They're not good.
50:42 They're not good.
50:43 And like all of the ways that you die
50:44 when you have cigarette damaged lungs are very, very unpleasant.
50:49 Being a grown-up sucks sometimes.
50:50 I hate it.
50:51 Um it does.
50:53 But honestly, Hank, thank you so much for this conversation.
50:55 And whenever you want to talk about anything, I'm I'm all here.
50:58 like
51:00 it's very rare to have a nice conversation sometimes, you know, like you do it
51:07 way more than I, but um
51:10 I'll say I'll say there there's just not a lot of people who who do what we do.
51:13 So, it can be hard to uh commiserate
51:18 and and and share share understandings and learnings.
51:22 It's it was also a total honor.
51:24 Oh, like when when this came in, I was like, "Really?
51:28 Awesome." [laughter] Um, and uh, yeah, it's cool.
51:32 And I hope you have a wonderful day and thank you for your