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6:47 Welcome to Wednesday's edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live
6:49 here on Giants.com YouTube as well as the mobile app.
6:52 He's Matt Scitec.
6:53 I'm Lance Medal with you for the next 60 minutes.
6:55 It is presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Giants.
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7:16 And we appreciate you joining us here
7:18 on the Giants podcast studio presented by Hackinack Meridian Health.
7:22 Keep getting better.
7:23 So, we've got some news on the defensive
7:25 line front that we're going to address first.
7:27 Then ESPN just laid out their latest power rankings in the wake of the draft.
7:32 And it's interesting where they have all the NFC East teams
7:36 and where they think they improve the most from a specific position.
7:40 So Matt, let's delve into the newsworthy items off the top.
7:44 And this was just announced maybe an hour
7:47 or two after yesterday's edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live,
7:50 but the Giants have agreed to terms with veteran defensive tackle DJ Reer.
7:56 His name had been floated around for several weeks,
7:58 and there were even reports that the Giants had him in for a visit.
8:02 So, this is not necessarily a name that came out of nowhere,
8:05 but here is now another addition to the group of veterans that they are
8:11 compiling to try to make up and fill the void left behind by Dexter Lawrence.
8:16 Whether it's a Shelby Harris or a Lucky Fu, and now you've got DJ Reer.
8:21 Reader was a name, Matt,
8:22 that I threw out going back to the beginning of free agency.
8:25 I thought he'd be an ideal fit to compliment Dexter Lawrence because
8:29 at that point we didn't know Dex was going to be traded.
8:32 But 63 330 entering his 11th season,
8:37 but I would argue still playing at a high level.
8:39 He actually had a career-high three sacks two years ago.
8:42 Not that they're bringing him in to get to the quarterback.
8:44 It's about stuffing the run and plugging the holes,
8:46 but this is going to be a bullpen by committee to me philosophy.
8:52 And they're going to have these guys compete in camp.
8:54 But I look at Reer as the front runner to help
8:57 solidify at least more snaps than anybody else to replace Dexter Lawrence.
9:03 Yeah.
9:03 Well, for starters, just want to clarify, it's still according to reports.
9:07 Correct.
9:08 That's why agreed to turning a physical.
9:10 So, official want to throw that out there.
9:12 But assuming all goes well with the physical and it does become official, yeah,
9:15 I think he is going DJ Reer is going to be the most likely guy to no one's going
9:19 to replace Dexter Lawrence obviously and that production.
9:22 But he's going to take the most snaps at the nose tackle
9:25 position of all these guys that the Giants have now brought in.
9:28 He is a nose tackle.
9:29 He's going to fill that role.
9:31 As you mentioned, he's not quite the pass rusher as Dexter Lawrence.
9:35 He's able to get to the quarterback to some degree.
9:37 It's not like that's a he's a zero in that department.
9:40 I mean, each of the last two years he had 20 total pressures
9:44 and that was coming off of the year before where he had 34 pressures.
9:47 Like, he can get after the quarterback,
9:49 but the biggest thing that you mentioned,
9:50 the biggest thing he's going to do is he's going to clog the running lanes.
9:54 He's a big big guy.
9:56 He's going to clog the lanes.
9:57 You know, he's going to get the double teams like Dexter Lawrence did.
10:01 Obviously Dexter Lawrence again in the pass rushing department the last
10:05 couple of years shown a lot more than DJ Reer has.
10:08 But DJ Reer has gotten double teamed I think
10:11 last year almost just as much as Dexter Lawrence.
10:14 So he's going to be that guy,
10:16 the big guy in the middle that's going to get attention from those interior
10:20 offensive linemen and hopefully set the edge
10:22 rushers up for at least some one-on-one situations.
10:25 Now, again, I don't think DJ Reer in 2026 is going
10:29 to get quite as many double teams as Dexter Lawrence probably in 2026,
10:33 but he's still going to demand a lot of attention.
10:36 And, you know, considering the situation that played out
10:39 with Dexter Lawrence in the last couple of weeks,
10:41 I mean, obviously, a month, he got traded a month into free agency.
10:46 So, all the top guys that you maybe would
10:49 have been interested in in the second week of March,
10:51 they're all obviously gone, long gone.
10:53 Signed for a lot of money.
10:54 So, I think all things considered where the Giants stood, you know,
10:59 with Dexter Lawrence clearly just not wanting to be here
11:02 and not being willing to be a part of this team,
11:06 want to help build this thing up with this new regime
11:09 that I think the Giants did pretty well bringing in DJ Reer,
11:14 Shelby Harris, Leki Fu.
11:16 Not to mention they got the 10th pick which turned into Francis
11:19 Maui Noah which had helped Jackson Dart the protection, the whole offense.
11:23 And even with all of those additions,
11:26 that is still less money towards the salary cap than just
11:29 an unhappy Dexter Lawrence would have counted towards a salary cap.
11:32 So while it, you know, no doubt about it,
11:36 it wasn't the most ideal of circumstances to start, I think the Giants,
11:40 the front office did a great job pivoting and making the best out
11:45 of a not ideal situation in order to help this team both in 2026 and beyond.
11:50 And as you noted, one player in particular
11:52 was not going to replace Dexter Lawrence,
11:54 but I think they've made significant strides by bringing
11:58 in players that are known for stopping the run.
12:01 You want to talk about Madden identity and the Giants,
12:05 they didn't need a reminder.
12:06 All they had to do was look at the film and look at the stats
12:08 from last season and that's a big
12:10 reason why they addressed the linebacking position.
12:13 But they knew they wanted to improve immensely in the trenches,
12:18 which is what you were getting at.
12:20 And I think they did that because Harris and Reer are big guys.
12:25 They play physical.
12:26 But what you were just tapping into, this is
12:29 why the Reer move I think was important,
12:32 maybe more so than any other transaction they made.
12:35 And that is that Dexter was so good at drawing attention.
12:41 whether it was the fear of the opposition thinking he's going to plug
12:45 a hole or just collapsing the pocket and getting to the quarterback.
12:48 And prior to DJ Reer, I think they had a nice collection of players,
12:53 but I don't think they had somebody that when you put the personnel
12:57 on the board in the opposing rooms as they're preparing for the Giants,
13:02 they said, "You know what?
13:03 This guy's going to damage the game, Matt.
13:05 This is a guy we really have to worry about." And once again,
13:07 I am not comparing Reader to Dexter Lawrence because there is a huge
13:11 separation in terms of Dex's sack production over the course of his career,
13:15 but Reer does still have an MMO as I'm going to get inside.
13:21 I'm going to disrupt.
13:22 I'm going to stop the run.
13:24 And as you were hitting on, I'm going
13:26 to hopefully help the edge rushers get some favorable matchups.
13:29 That all he can accomplish.
13:31 And that's why I really think this move puts them further
13:36 ahead in the process of aiding the competition on the interior,
13:41 but also giving the opposition somebody to think about.
13:46 No doubt about it.
13:46 I mean, it was only a couple years ago
13:48 that DJ Reer was playing at a very, very high level with the Bengals.
13:52 Yeah.
13:52 Maybe not quite to the level that, you know,
13:54 we saw Dexter Lawrence in that three-year stretch where he was, you know,
13:58 second team all pro bowl every year,
14:00 but not too far below that is the level that DJ Rider was playing.
14:04 Now, he's a little bit older than Dexter Lawrence.
14:06 But yeah, look, the biggest thing that he can do
14:08 that to help this team in 2026 is help stop the run,
14:13 which is something he has done well his entire career, and draw the attention,
14:18 get those double teams to help clear things up for those edge rushers.
14:22 I mean, I've spoken many times on the show the last few months
14:25 about how I think Abdul Carter is set up to have a breakout campaign.
14:29 Well, when you got the Giants got rid of Dexter Lawrence,
14:32 I'm not saying that my confidence in that, you know, decreased,
14:35 but it took a little bit of a hit because I was like,
14:37 well, who's going to get the attention in the middle of the defense?
14:40 Now DJ Reer is here.
14:42 I think it's the best possible pivot the Giants
14:44 could have gone to after the Dexter Lawrence trade.
14:48 And I another aspect of this that I think not too many people are talking about
14:52 quite to the level that they should be is that this kind of paves the way
14:56 for Darius Alexander to get more playing time and to sort of take that next
15:03 step in his development because as I was
15:06 talking about earlier in the week with Paul,
15:08 he showed a lot of promise in that last chunk of the season.
15:11 you know, he was pretty quiet for most of the year,
15:13 but that last five or six game stretch,
15:16 it seemed like something clicked in his head and he was really
15:18 starting to get going and be a lot more productive than the first,
15:22 you know, twothirds of the season.
15:24 So, if he can build on that and really take a step in his growth,
15:28 he's going to get a lot more playing time,
15:29 it's going to help his growth and development,
15:32 and it's going to give a giant the Giants also more
15:35 confidence in the long-term solution
15:37 and answer at the defensive tackle position.
15:40 Obviously, DJ Reer reportedly agreed to a two-year deal,
15:43 but the other free agents that the Giants brought
15:46 in last week and Shelby Harris and Ley Fu,
15:48 they were both reportedly agreed signed to one-year deals.
15:51 So, right now, those guys obviously not on the roster in 2027.
15:55 It's just Darius Alexander and DJ Reer right now under contract for next year.
16:00 So, if he can take that big jump and big step,
16:04 it would just give the Giants so much
16:05 confidence going into next off seasonason that all right,
16:08 we don't have to scramble to fill out this defensive tackle position.
16:12 We're pretty good right now with DJ Reer
16:14 and Darius Alexander as our top two guys.
16:16 Well, and also it's good for him to learn
16:18 from Reer and Harris before, to your point,
16:21 maybe he takes on a more prominent role in a year when
16:25 they don't have some of these veteran free agents that they've just added.
16:29 Now, the reason why,
16:30 just to piggyback off your point, Alexander's production went up.
16:33 He played more towards the latter part of the season.
16:36 I mean, those are the facts.
16:37 If you look at it by game, defensive snaps went up.
16:40 I mean, even the percentage, for example,
16:42 and I know this was a game that didn't mean anything for either team,
16:45 but he played 80% of the snaps against the Dallas Cowboys in the finale.
16:49 So, that added up to 44 snaps, which was more than anything else he had played.
16:56 The highest prior to that was 37 that he
16:59 played against the Lions in that overtime affair.
17:02 And you started to see the tackles for loss.
17:05 You started to see just the combined tackles.
17:07 He had two quarterback hits against the Raiders.
17:10 He also happened to have two against the Lions.
17:13 So, I'm with you.
17:14 I don't think though the readers signing,
17:17 I'm not saying this is what you were hitting on.
17:18 I think this was more of the removal
17:20 of Dexter Lawrence opens up the door for Darius Alexander.
17:24 whether they bring in another veteran, whether Rita was here or not,
17:28 Alexander was going to get an opportunity to certainly prove himself,
17:32 but you can't rely on just Alexander
17:35 on an island because even though he showed some flashes,
17:38 Matt, still raw and young,
17:41 and I think you wanted a little bit more proven talent,
17:44 especially when you're talking about shoring up, stopping the run,
17:48 and aiding some of these young pass rushers.
17:50 I mean, Abdul Carter is only entering year number two in the NFL, too.
17:54 So, I think the Giants are taking
17:56 that all into consideration that yes, on the roster,
17:58 they have some guys who have upside and perhaps a high ceiling,
18:02 but you're not banking on that based on a sample size of five or six games.
18:07 Oh, no doubt about it.
18:08 I mean, that's why following the trade of Dexter Lawrence,
18:10 you went out and signed three veterans that have played in the NFL
18:14 for years now and shown that they can compete and succeed at this level.
18:17 It's because you don't want to go into week one having to, you know,
18:21 lean on Darius Alexander having to play, you know, 40, 50 snaps.
18:26 You don't want to have to have that happen.
18:28 Obviously, the hope is at some point during the season,
18:31 he proves that he has taken such a big step that you can't keep him off
18:35 the field and you need to put him on the field for a good number of snaps.
18:38 But that's something that he's definitely going
18:39 to have to earn as the, you know,
18:41 as training camp gets started and then preseason
18:44 and once the games actually start in September.
18:47 That's something he's he's gonna have to earn
18:49 that bigger role that he sort of had
18:50 towards the end of last season now that all these veterans are in the mix.
18:54 And I also don't think the Giants wanted to just
18:57 lay out the red carpet and hand it to him.
18:59 That's the benefit of bringing in the veterans.
19:01 Even if you like the potential of Alexander, you're still saying,
19:05 "Okay, go out and beat out Reer, beat out Harris,
19:08 beat out Fau and so forth." One other minor
19:11 addition that the Giants made to the defensive line,
19:13 they claimed Zack Pickkins off of waiverss from the Kansas City Chiefs.
19:17 He was mainly on their practice squad a year ago.
19:20 He was called up late in the season, wound up playing in three games.
19:23 A third round pick of the Bears in 2023.
19:26 So, he spent his first two years with Chicago last year with Kansas City.
19:30 Another individual, a little bit younger, of course, Matt, than Harris and Reer,
19:35 but this is what we're talking about at this point.
19:38 When you have a 90man roster, there's no limitation.
19:41 If you want to bring in 18 different defensive linemen, bring them in.
19:45 It doesn't hurt you.
19:46 Plus, you also have Bobby Jameson Travis who they drafted in the sixth round.
19:50 So, we just went through that's six players.
19:54 Not to mention, I know Sam Roberts may be more of a edge defensive end,
19:58 but they brought him in from the Atlanta Falcons.
20:00 So, there's going to be a lot of competition.
20:03 And remember, they also have, and this maybe gets lost in the weeds.
20:09 They have some edges that can move inside.
20:13 For example, Chanty Golston is a versatile player,
20:16 and he's another one to look out for this year.
20:19 Unfortunately, he dealt with injuries last season,
20:23 but he was one of the players that I pinpointed coming into the season
20:26 as a bit of an X- factor because if what he did with the Dallas Cowboys,
20:30 it didn't necessarily come together because
20:32 unfortunately couldn't stay on the field.
20:34 But you talked about Alexander having an opportunity.
20:37 Don't sleep on and don't overlook how they
20:40 may tap into and utilize Goston who you can
20:43 use on the outside and the inside as somebody
20:46 that is another proven veteran in the mix.
20:49 Yeah, Paul and I spoke about Chanty Goston
20:51 earlier in the week and that he's now healthy,
20:53 which obviously last year he was dealing with some injuries,
20:56 but it was just two seasons ago in Dallas.
20:58 He was coming off the best season of his career
21:00 where he was an actual force on that Cowboys defensive line.
21:03 last year, the injuries along with honestly just it seemed like
21:08 the coaching staff did not know where to prop like where was
21:11 the best place to put him on the defensive line and all
21:14 of that combined for him to just not have the best of seasons.
21:18 But I still think I mean going into last season I thought he was going
21:21 to be one of the most underrated
21:23 signings that the Giants had all last offseason.
21:25 Underrated additions overall.
21:27 So, I still think there's a lot of potential there
21:29 for him to grow into more of a role on this defense.
21:32 And just about Pickkins, obviously, you know,
21:35 when you claim someone off waiverss,
21:37 you shouldn't have the highest of expectations for anyone.
21:39 But again, he's getting thrown into this competition
21:42 in the defensive tackle group where there's, you know,
21:46 guys are going to have to earn their sp their spots,
21:49 earn their reps, earn their snaps.
21:50 He's got an opportunity here.
21:52 This is a guy that was just a third round pick a couple of years ago.
21:55 Incredibly athletic.
21:57 He is a very athletic defensive tackle.
22:00 So,
22:00 and he's got length 64303.
22:02 Yeah, he's a he's a big guy.
22:03 He can move.
22:04 Like he ran a 48940.
22:06 That's not easy for defensive tackle to do.
22:09 So, he's obviously got a lot to prove because he's been in the league for three
22:15 seasons and as you mentioned hasn't done a hasn't had a whole lot of production,
22:19 but he's going to get an opportunity here to show that he, you know,
22:22 deserves to play in the NFL and deserves to have a role on a defense.
22:27 So, let's see what he can do.
22:28 One other thing I wanted to hit on before we
22:30 open it up to the phone lines and social media,
22:33 ESPN just released rankings, and I have been on the record.
22:38 I'm not a huge fan of rankings,
22:39 but I do think it's sometimes effective to utilize them at least
22:43 as a talking point to bring a different perspective to the show.
22:46 So, these are their NFL power rankings for 2026 under the theme
22:50 of which teams improve this off season now that the draft is over.
22:55 So, we're only interested in the Giants
22:57 and the three other teams in the division.
22:59 So, just to give you an idea, they have the Eagles at five.
23:02 Then the next team in the NFC East is the Dallas Cowboys at 16.
23:08 Then they have the Commanders at 19 and they have the Giants at 23.
23:12 So Matt, let's start with the Giants.
23:14 They said the most improved position for this team
23:18 is linebacker based on what they did in the offseason.
23:21 I just want to read the blurb here.
23:23 The Giants spent $13 million this off
23:25 seasonason to sign linebacker Tummaine Edmonds and use
23:28 the number five pick on Ohio State's
23:30 Arville Ree who will play weakside linebacker.
23:32 So they're hoping the unit is
23:33 significantly improved from last seasons which began
23:37 with Bobby O' Carrick as the middle linebacker and Micah McFaten alongside him.
23:41 McFaten also resigned with the Giants after missing most of last
23:44 season because of a foot injury between Edmonds Reese and McFatin.
23:49 The inside linebacker group should be an asset
23:52 as New York tries to solve its run stuffing woes.
23:55 Giants allowed a league worse 5.3 yards per rush last season,
23:58 the worst mark in franchise history,
24:00 which we were hitting on earlier in the program.
24:03 And I would agree linebacker is certainly a position that they addressed.
24:09 They brought in some length.
24:11 They brought in veteran experience.
24:13 They brought in athleticism.
24:14 But here's the key.
24:16 Yes, that position has improved on paper,
24:20 but it's how that unit cooperates with the guys
24:23 we were just talking about, Matt, up front.
24:26 That is how you improve your run stopping.
24:30 I still think they need stops at the first layer.
24:35 They can't expect the linebackers and then
24:37 of course the safeties and the secondary
24:39 to clean it up because that was happening way too much last season.
24:44 100%.
24:44 I mean, these guys up front obviously are the first line of defense.
24:47 They need to, you know,
24:49 not every snap, but a lot of the time get into the back field,
24:52 push the offensive line back a little bit.
24:54 Yeah.
24:55 Um, but the biggest thing with, you know,
24:57 with this ESPN most improved position being the linebackers,
25:00 I don't think any of us would disagree with that.
25:01 I mean, between Tummaine Edmonds and Orville Ree,
25:05 the Giants have probably their most athletic pair of linebackers
25:08 and long linebackers in God knows how many years.
25:12 But the biggest thing about it is with this athleticism comes great speed.
25:16 And last year, the Giants obviously had a very bad run defense.
25:22 Of course, the yards per carry average was at the bottom of the NFL,
25:27 but if you look at the splits,
25:29 a lot of the damage was done on runs to the outside,
25:32 which as much as you know, you want your defensive line,
25:35 your defensive tackles to help with the run, if it's an outside run,
25:40 I don't know how much you can really expect those guys to really do.
25:43 Sure, you need the linebackers to go be able to run sideline to sideline.
25:47 And Tummaine Edmonds and Arville Ree have
25:49 shown they are very capable of doing that.
25:51 that is some of their strengths.
25:53 So even you know with this before the trade of Dex Lawrence
25:57 and even after did not matter those guys are going to be the biggest
26:01 reasons why the Giants run defense takes a step up this year because
26:05 of those two and even I'll throw Mike McFaten in because he obviously resigned.
26:10 He played about a quarter and a half last
26:12 year before suffering a season ending injury and this was
26:14 coming off two seasons where he looked like he
26:17 was on the incline and getting better each season.
26:20 we didn't really get to see at all what he could do.
26:22 So, I think the group of those three linebackers are going
26:25 to be the biggest reason why this Giants run defense improves in 2027.
26:29 And you also have Darius Muisowl too as insurance with McFaten.
26:33 So, you know, all of these guys are not going to play all 17 games.
26:37 So, you're going to need the McFatens,
26:39 you're going to need the Muisowl of the world.
26:41 But sideline to sideline,
26:44 that's the aspect probably where the linebacking core has improved the most.
26:48 It's the ability to go, okay, not north and south, east, west,
26:52 and the recovery to aid to what you were hitting
26:56 on the secondary players because when you're running to the outside,
27:01 you're also looking to attack or test and challenge
27:04 the cornerbacks to see whether or not they're interested in tackling.
27:08 And we know, and I'm not pinpointing anybody on this roster,
27:12 I'm just saying as a general sense,
27:13 in the NFL, there are quarters that are press guys.
27:17 They like to cover.
27:18 They like to tangle with the wide receivers.
27:21 And there are guys that want no business
27:24 of getting down and dirty and aiding the run.
27:27 So that's another reason why teams also look to run to the outside.
27:32 Yeah.
27:32 They want to get some favorable matchups,
27:34 open space for their skill position players,
27:37 but they also want to see is the corner willing to come up and be physical.
27:42 So how do you offset that?
27:44 How do you help that?
27:45 you have linebackers that could cover a lot
27:48 of territory and they could do that relatively quickly.
27:50 So, I'm with you.
27:51 That also is maybe a further layer of what
27:55 ESPN is talking about with respect to the linebacker position.
27:59 All right, let's just give a quick idea of where
28:02 they feel the rest of the NFC East improve cuz
28:05 this is going to be something the Giants are going
28:07 to have to tackle at least twice in the upcoming season.
28:10 So, I mentioned the Eagles number five.
28:14 They feel they improved at the tight end position.
28:18 They like what Philly did to complement Dallas Goddard,
28:23 who they wound up resigning.
28:25 They drafted Eli Sters out of Vanderbilt,
28:27 very athletic player in the second round.
28:30 And then they brought in two veteran players,
28:32 not guys that are going to put up monster numbers,
28:34 but could help in blocking and further the cause.
28:36 And Johnny Munt and Stone Smart.
28:39 and Smart was with the Jets last season.
28:41 Prior to that, he was with the Chargers.
28:43 The other element, it's interesting.
28:45 We were just talking, Matt, about the linebackers in length.
28:48 All of these tight ends are tall guys.
28:51 They're 6'3, 6'4 and bigger,
28:53 and they can pose a big challenge for the secondary.
28:57 So, that's another reason, and this ties in actually beautifully
29:00 to the Giants improving the linebacking position,
29:02 because who knows what type of matchups we're going to see,
29:07 especially when you get into the middle of the field in the secondary.
29:10 Well, the Giants are going to have to slow down.
29:13 At least Dallas Godden and Eli Sters, I could tell you,
29:16 are going to be running routes for the Eagles this upcoming season.
29:19 Yeah, I mean, viewers of the show that have heard me
29:22 on the show for the last few months know how much I love.
29:25 So I set this up beautifully for you is what you
29:27 know how devastated I was the fact that he ended up in Philly.
29:30 But the alma mater
29:31 in terms of the Philadelphia offense, I think that was a perfect match for them.
29:36 It gives them an incredibly incredibly athletic tight end and another big target
29:41 in the passing game because it obviously
29:43 looks like AJ Brown will eventually get traded.
29:46 It does not seem like he's going
29:47 to be playing for the Eagles this upcoming season.
29:49 So having Eli Sters there with Dallas Goddard just gives
29:53 Jaylen Herz in the whole passing game two very big
29:58 receiving options in the passing game because you look
30:01 at the other receivers that they have in the passing game.
30:03 I mean Devonte Smith is not big.
30:06 Hollywood Brown is not big.
30:08 Uh Elijah Moore
30:09 and Mai Lemon is not a big guy.
30:11 Mai Lemon who they drafted not big.
30:13 So you when you have receivers that obviously
30:16 are on the smaller end of the spectrum
30:19 under 6 feet I think all of them Devonte Smith maybe is 6 feet but obviously
30:24 borderline yeah he plays a lot bigger in fairness to he's great stature wise
30:30 they don't have any big guys so to have those two tight ends that are
30:34 very capable pass catchers and big targets obviously
30:37 is going to help that Eagles passing game Cowboys they have at 16 and they
30:42 think they most improved at the safety position.
30:45 And John and I did a show last week where we
30:47 were talking about teams that improved overall through the drafted free agency.
30:52 And I brought up of course the addition of Caleb DS.
30:55 That goes without saying, but they brought in Jaylen Thompson from the Arizona
30:58 Cardinals and PJ Lockach from the Denver Broncos.
31:01 And you look at it against they had Malik Hooker and Donovan Wilson last season.
31:06 Now Hooker is still on the team.
31:08 Wilson is unsigned, but you brought in, I think,
31:11 some better athleticism, better ability to stop the run and cover,
31:16 which were major headaches for them,
31:19 and also giving them a little bit more depth at that position.
31:23 And the Giants had the same philosophy in terms of coming in to this off season.
31:29 Matt, you're looking around at the rest of the division.
31:32 You just went through the Eagles receiving court.
31:33 Well, I mean, we didn't talk about Dallas's two
31:36 star wide receivers and CD Lamb and George Pickkins.
31:39 And then you look at what Washington has
31:41 to offer with Terry McLaren and plenty of other,
31:44 I would say, complimentary weapons.
31:46 And watch out for Luke McAffrey this season.
31:48 I think he is set up for a potential breakout campaign.
31:51 You need corners, but you also need safeties that are going to help.
31:55 And maybe you're going to bring one of your safeties down into the slot.
31:58 So Dallas knew they had to help their run,
32:02 but I think also they helped their cause
32:04 in terms of coverage on the back end to compete
32:07 against the rest of the NFC East and then
32:09 of course the other teams they're facing this season.
32:11 Yeah, for sure.
32:12 I mean these safeties a lot of the time
32:14 also get matched up in coverage against tight ends.
32:18 Yeah.
32:17 So we just we talked about the two Eagles tight ends.
32:20 Well, the Giants have Isaiah likely and Theo
32:22 Johnson and I don't even The Commanders, they lost
32:27 the Commanders, they made a number of changes.
32:29 Yeah.
32:29 Well, remember Zack Z got hurt at the tail end of the season.
32:33 He unfortunately had that gruesome foot injury.
32:36 So, they brought in they brought in Yeah.
32:40 from the Titans.
32:41 And then they have a few guys that they've
32:43 had as complimentary weapons too still in the mix,
32:46 but they'll mix and match in terms of their offense.
32:48 Those are five between the three opponents for the Cowboys in the NFC East,
32:52 five tight ends that you're going to have to match up in coverage against.
32:55 You know, the Giants, obviously,
32:56 we've spoken about Giants are going to play
32:58 a lot of two tight end sets this year.
33:00 And again, given the Eagles trade or soon to be trade of AJ Brown,
33:06 they're probably going to play a lot of two tight end sets as well.
33:08 Eli Stardd.
33:09 Yeah.
33:10 Eli St more than capable of lining up out wide as a wide receiver in the slot.
33:14 So yeah, these safeties on the Cowboys are going
33:16 to have a lot of big targets to cover up.
33:19 And you know, obviously that's why the drafting of Caleb DS made
33:25 the most sense for them because even with the signing of Jaylen Thompson,
33:28 they still needed more doubt in that secondary.
33:32 And obviously once you got out of the top 10 of the draft,
33:36 no doubt about it, Caleb DS was the best player still left.
33:38 They needed a Swiss Army knife in that safety position.
33:41 And that's what they get in Downs.
33:43 And it also relates to I can't recall which interview but John Harour did
33:48 an interview this off season and one of the things that he emphasized he
33:52 says the priority and I'm paraphrasing so don't hold me to every word
33:56 but the main point was you need
33:58 to bring in personnel to beat your division rivals.
34:03 Your whole team should not be framed around that.
34:06 But there needs to be at least an emphasis.
34:08 And I think the common theme for not just the Giants,
34:11 but for the other teams is, okay, what did our foes do and what
34:16 can we do to help offset and neutralize that?
34:19 Now, the last team, the Commanders come in at 19.
34:23 They believe they improved the most at the edge position.
34:26 Dorance Armstrong tore his ACL in week seven last season.
34:30 And then you could argue ever since that happened,
34:32 the pass rush was not the same.
34:33 So, they did sort of what the Giants are doing up
34:37 front on the defensive line to make up for Dexter Lawrence,
34:41 bringing a few guys, but Odaf Ooway had a massive season with the Chargers.
34:46 He's a former Raven.
34:47 And then Caleb Anonson actually had seven and a half sacks for the Patriots,
34:51 so he did a nice job.
34:52 They drafted Joshua Josephs in the fifth round.
34:54 And then Charles Omeahoo, who was with the Chiefs,
34:58 I think is a player that has not gotten enough credit over the course
35:02 of his career because they've had some bigger names up front for KC.
35:07 But between those three veterans that I mentioned,
35:10 I think the Commanders have a lot more firepower
35:13 to dangle out there and in much better position,
35:16 god forbid, if they suffer an injury.
35:19 Yeah, I mean, I was very high on Dorance Armstrong going into last season.
35:22 Well, he had another great season with the Cowboys,
35:24 similar to what we were talking about with some
35:27 of these other players like related to the Giants.
35:30 Yeah, for sure.
35:31 I just I think he just was one
35:33 of the more overlooked players going into last season.
35:37 Obviously, coming back from a torn ACL,
35:40 although it happened earlier in the season, so the way injuries work now,
35:44 I would think he has a decent chance
35:46 of being ready towards the start of the season.
35:47 But nonetheless, yeah, they now have not only do they have talent on the edge,
35:52 but as you mentioned, they have depth and it's not just pure depth pieces,
35:57 they have guys that would be starting,
35:59 the three top guys would be starting on a lot of teams around the NFL.
36:02 It's some somewhere on the defensive line.
36:04 So, yeah, they did a very good job of addressing one of their needs.
36:08 They don't have that, you know, superstar edge rusher,
36:11 but they have now three very solid to good guys that are going to man the edges.
36:18 And good thing that the Giants were able to resign
36:21 Germaine Aluminor and have a healthy Andrew Thomas coming back
36:24 because that's obviously going to be a tough group
36:26 to match up against the two times the Giants play him.
36:28 All right, a few reminders before we open up the phone lines.
36:33 You've got the 2026 Town Hall presented by Verizon.
36:37 It's live from the Beacon Theater in New York City Monday, May 18th.
36:41 You can get an exclusive preview of the season
36:42 with GM Joe Shane and head coach John Harbaugh.
36:45 Plus, you can hear from current players like Jackson Dart, Cam Scataboo,
36:48 and Brian Burns along with members of the newest draft class.
36:52 You can secure your seats now.
36:53 You go to giants.com/townall.
36:56 That's giants.com/townall.
36:59 As we are here on Wednesday's edition of BBKL, it's presented by Cadillac.
37:04 He's Matt Scitec.
37:05 I'm Lance Meadow.
37:06 Thanks so much for spending part of your afternoon with us as we
37:09 are broadcasting from the Giants podcast
37:10 studio presented by Hackitzac Meridian Health.
37:13 Keep getting better.
37:14 All right, let's open up the phone lines as we move forward.
37:17 Sure.
37:17 Just a non Giants or even football update because we are in the New York market.
37:24 The Knicks play tonight.
37:25 Joel Embi just got ruled out.
37:27 Really?
37:28 Wow.
37:28 Okay.
37:28 See, I've been so in the football mindset that I was not paying attention.
37:33 I just saw that Shams tweet pop up and a lot
37:36 of you listening are probably big Nick fans so had to quick mention.
37:39 Well, listen, I know you were not.
37:41 That was that was more for the viewers.
37:43 That's fine.
37:43 Well, I'm a basketball fan though.
37:44 I'm very much invested in every single series,
37:47 not just one in particular from uh my national work.
37:50 But Embiid, see, now you're going to get me into basketball mode.
37:53 So, you're guilty of this.
37:54 But real quick, there's always a wild card when
37:57 Joel Embiid is involved in a series because he comes
38:00 with the caveat of you never know if he's going
38:03 to hold up and he was banged up coming in.
38:06 He had the epidetomy and he got pretty beat up in game
38:09 one against the Knicks as New York ran away with things.
38:12 So, I can't say this is a surprising development,
38:14 but this is what happens when you're Philadelphia and you're relying
38:18 on a player that can't even be penciled into the lineup consistently.
38:23 Yeah.
38:23 Look, I'm I'm not a Knicks fan either.
38:25 You guys all know that.
38:25 I'm unfortunately a Nets fan,
38:27 but never pains me to see a Philly team take a shot.
38:30 So, the Jersey Philadelphia line and the geography
38:35 that comes into play with all of that.
38:37 All right.
38:38 So, we gave you a basketball update.
38:40 We updated you on the transactions for the Giants.
38:43 Anything else that you want to squeeze in, Matt,
38:45 before we open things up or smooth sailing?
38:48 Okay.
38:48 I just wanted to make sure we got the seal of approval.
38:51 Let's check in with Scott in New Mexico with us here on BBKO.
38:55 What's happening, Scott?
38:57 Hi, guys.
38:58 Um, one thing I just before I get to my main points,
39:00 one thing that wrankles me a little bit is we
39:03 always think about big receivers being better than smaller receivers,
39:07 and that's simply not the case.
39:08 And taking your example on Philadelphia with AJ Brown and Dante Smith,
39:14 a Devonte Smith had more yardage, not by much,
39:17 than AJ Brown did and only one less reception.
39:20 So, I don't think it matters.
39:22 Look at Rondell Robinson, uh, small receiver,
39:24 and look what he was able to accomplish.
39:26 So, I don't think size is really the issue.
39:29 And I kind of got the impression that maybe
39:30 sometimes we look at big receivers as being better,
39:33 and that's simply not the case.
39:35 So, I just Well, I mean, I would agree with you, Scott.
39:38 I think usage is a big part of it,
39:40 and every team is going to tap it to the potential of a player differently.
39:44 And as I mentioned earlier, I said, Dvonte Smith,
39:46 I think, plays much bigger than his size.
39:48 I don't think he gets credit for his toughness.
39:50 He's been actually very durable since he came into the NFL.
39:54 And I remember even having conversations with Paul
39:56 on the show in his draft class, the concern about him holding up.
40:00 And I think he's quieted his skeptics in that department very effectively.
40:05 But I I do think there is value in having
40:09 size if you're going to run certain plays up the sideline
40:13 where you're going to need to beat a taller corner
40:15 or you're going to want to have some leverage on a linebacker.
40:18 So, I'm with you.
40:19 I I think your overall premise is right that you shouldn't get too
40:23 caught up in bringing in a 6'4 guy for the sake of being 6'4.
40:27 He has to have the talent to back it up.
40:29 But you do need some mixture because of the length
40:32 you're going to see on the defensive side of the ball.
40:35 Yeah, I don't think you need to be a skyscraper
40:38 just to be a good receiver in the NFL.
40:40 Obviously, I mean, Malik Neighbors had a historic
40:41 rookie season and he's what listed at 6 feet.
40:44 Jamar Chase is one of the best receivers in the NFL listed at 6 feet.
40:47 So, you don't necessarily need to be the huge tall guy.
40:50 They just obviously when you're a defense
40:53 trying to match up against an opposing offense,
40:55 a lot of the time those bigger guys are just a little bit
40:58 of a tougher matchup just in terms on paper because if you're a, you know,
41:02 510 corner, it's going to be a little bit
41:04 harder to to match up against a 6'4 wide receiver.
41:08 Can't teach size as they say.
41:10 Well, in the Giants heyday was Odell Beckham Jr.
41:13 who wasn't that big.
41:14 There was nobody who could cover him.
41:15 So, for sure.
41:17 Uh, I just think it's just the way we look at things.
41:20 But that was the only thing that bothered
41:22 me a little bit about the conversation.
41:24 Uh, but I want to get to my main points.
41:26 Matt, I agree with you in regards
41:27 to the linebacking core and in regards to DJ Reer.
41:32 I think that was one of the wisest moves the Giants made.
41:34 I looked at his which surprised me.
41:38 Uh, I looked at his double team win rate win rate and he was
41:44 he led the NFL in that which means he's occupying two different uh linemen.
41:50 And to me, if that happens and they get some consistency with the line,
41:55 that'll open up channels for the linebackers to blitz.
41:58 And that was very impressive.
42:00 His his uh rate against the run wasn't as good, which I was surprised at.
42:06 But but if he can occupy two guys,
42:09 I think that's going to create some uh
42:11 havoc for opposition teams with the linebackers we have.
42:15 And I agree that the I agree that those were important issues.
42:23 The thing also I wanted to talk about was another player that could be
42:27 sort of a diamond in the rough and that's Jack Kelly from Brigham Young.
42:32 Uh if I know they have a mere mark to play special teams,
42:36 but if he works himself into the lineup
42:39 with McFaden and Al Ree and Jermaine Enbins,
42:44 does that mirror sort of the kind of team that they had back
42:47 in' 86 when they had reasons and Carlson and LT uh and Carl Banks.
42:55 It almost looks like a duplication of something like
42:57 that if they have like the playing a three- four defense.
43:00 And does that allow more u blitzing opportunities for the linebacks they have?
43:06 I know they're going to be geared against the run,
43:08 but even run stopping blitzes can help.
43:11 So, I was wanting to get your opinions on whether if Jack
43:14 Kelly can make it onto this team and they have four outstanding linebackers,
43:18 will the Giants mirror what they did in 86
43:21 so far as the way they play their defense,
43:23 understanding that they have to obviously uh take care of the outside
43:27 to make sure the runs don't go outside as you pointed out that.
43:31 So, I wanted to get your opinions on that and and I'll take your answer.
43:34 All right, Scott.
43:35 I appreciate the phone call.
43:37 Well, first of all, I don't think they're sacrificing and taking
43:40 any personnel off the field to get Jack Kelly in the mix.
43:43 Let me say that first.
43:44 I don't think it's a stretch for him to make the team.
43:47 I think he was very productive in college at a few programs,
43:50 but you also need to take into consideration
43:52 the caliber of the competition he was going up against.
43:55 And actually, he was somewhat similar to McFaten where
43:57 he was a pretty big sack guy in college.
43:59 But once again, that was who he went
44:02 up against and that was how he was utilized.
44:04 I think he is textbook specialtamer because I think he's a hustle guy.
44:09 I think he's scrappy and I think they'll love
44:11 him in that facet at least for year one.
44:14 But man, I'm not so sure that he's going to break through in terms of some
44:19 of these other linebackers or they're going to take
44:21 some of the other edge rushers off the field.
44:23 I think year one special teams is probably where he's
44:26 going to make the biggest name for himself if anything.
44:29 Yeah.
44:29 you know, I I don't remember if it was yesterday or Monday,
44:32 but I literally just said exactly what you just
44:34 said with Jack Kelly that as a rookie in 2026,
44:38 he's looking at primarily a special teams role.
44:40 But I did say it wouldn't surprise me if he
44:42 can work his way at some point during the season,
44:45 if he excels in special teams and shows like maybe during
44:48 the preseason and training camp that he's able to handle some defensive snaps,
44:53 then I wouldn't be surprised if he carves
44:55 out some sort of small role on the defense.
44:57 But look, it's not going to be a I
45:00 would be surprised I would should say if it is
45:02 a every down or even close to an every down
45:06 role because as we mentioned there's Tummaine Edmonds and Arville
45:09 Reese are are starting and barring injury they are
45:12 going to be on the field close to 100%
45:14 of the snaps and whenever they need to come off
45:16 the field Michael McFaten's going to be the next one up.
45:19 Yeah, Darius Muisau will be after McFaten.
45:22 Jack Kelly just has a lot of competition in front of him
45:25 in order to carve out an legitimate actual role on the defense.
45:29 I think that's something he could grow into over the course of his, let's say,
45:33 his rookie contract, those three, four years that he's here.
45:36 I think that's something he can grow into because again,
45:39 Michael McFaten was brought back on a one-year deal.
45:42 Darius Muisowl has either one or two years left, but you know,
45:46 was drafted not too far from where Jack Kelly was drafted.
45:50 If you told me going into next year after showing
45:53 a lot of promise and potential flashes throughout this year,
45:56 going into 2027 that Jack Kelly was sort of earmarked as the team's
46:00 third or fourth linebacker while also keeping that big special teams role,
46:04 I would say that is totally reasonable.
46:07 But in terms of this season, again, he could surprise us.
46:11 He could come out on summer with his hair on fire,
46:13 which obviously he's capable of doing,
46:15 and prove that he deserves to have some sort of role on defense.
46:18 But really, I think in 2026, we're going to see him primarily on special teams.
46:23 And just very quickly,
46:24 I don't think it's fair to compare any defense to the Giants
46:27 defense of 1986 with the legends that were on that squad.
46:31 Not saying you're putting those expectations on the 2026 Giants,
46:35 but that was just that group was on another level.
46:39 So, I don't think it's fair to compare anyone to th those group of guys.
46:43 Yeah.
46:43 I mean, you're talking about arguably the greatest
46:45 pass rusher of all time and Lawrence Taylor,
46:47 Carl Banks, Gary Rezinss, Harry Carson.
46:50 I mean, that's a legendary group.
46:52 I I don't think anybody on this current roster has entered that territory.
46:56 The only thing I will say is there is versatility.
46:59 There's the ability to play a number of guys
47:02 if you want to go there for comparison's sake.
47:05 But again, I don't see them, which to me was the center of the point,
47:11 taking one of their edge rushers,
47:14 cuz if you want to talk about four linebackers,
47:17 we're going to include the Brian Burnses of the world and the Abdul Carters
47:20 of the world off the field so you could get Jack Kelly some snaps.
47:24 So, I guess that's what I keep circling back to.
47:27 And I'm with you.
47:27 I think McFaten is the first man up if Reese or Edmonds get banged up.
47:32 And remember, Muisowl,
47:34 the only reason why he played a lot more was cuz McFaten got hurt.
47:37 Okay.
47:37 If McFaten doesn't get hurt,
47:39 I don't know whether or not Muisau even scratches the surface.
47:43 So, yes, I don't have a crystal ball.
47:45 Neither do you, Matt.
47:46 Can never predict injuries.
47:47 I always say this on the show.
47:49 So, if, god forbid, they get to the point
47:51 where they've got to play the third linebacker,
47:53 of course, Kelly, in all likelihood, could get opportunities.
47:56 But in a more reasonable world where everybody at least stays healthy,
48:02 it's going to be very hard for him to me to make an indent.
48:06 And I think any defensive coordinator and defensive coach will tell you unless
48:11 he once again is just blowing them
48:13 away in practice and outperforming the elites,
48:17 they're not removing Burns and Carter and company
48:21 in pass rushing situations for a Jack Kelly.
48:25 Unless they want to give him some more opportunities from the interior and see
48:30 whether or not he could get some penetration and maybe spell Reese or Edmonds.
48:34 Once again, that still would be a very small group of snaps,
48:38 I would argue, Matt, over the course of the season.
48:40 Yeah.
48:40 And look, I just add very small like we're talking about last year,
48:45 we went into the season saying,
48:46 "How are the Giants going to find snaps for Brian Burns,
48:50 Abdul Carter, and Kavon Cibido?" Well, guess what?
48:52 They have the same situation this year.
48:54 All three guys are back.
48:55 So, I don't think they're going to be looking
48:57 for find opportunities to get those guys off the field more.
49:01 I think it's going to be more about getting
49:02 those three guys on the field together more often.
49:05 So, even more of a way to say that it's going to look,
49:09 I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's going to be an uphill battle for Jack
49:12 Kelly to earn a big role on the defense in 2026.
49:15 It's not impossible, but it's for sure an uphill battle.
49:19 Just out of curiosity,
49:20 I wanted to glance at the snap count breakdown from a year
49:24 ago just to further emphasize what you were talking about.
49:27 And remember, it's a different coaching staff and different dynamics.
49:30 So you can't match everything, but Burns played 77% of the snaps.
49:36 Carter played 76% of the snaps and then Muisowl once again McFaten was hurt.
49:44 So he got 41% which to me I think was much higher than they had anticipated.
49:50 And Kavon Tibido, but remember he was banged up.
49:52 So I don't even know if that number is worth throwing out was at 44%.
49:56 So, I think the main takeaway from a year ago is Burns at 77, Carter at 76.
50:03 Minimum you want to get them both back to that number.
50:07 Yeah.
50:08 As the foundation 100%.
50:10 I do think some of that maybe at least towards
50:12 the end of the season was because Kavon was hurt.
50:16 Kavon missed what was it the last played 10 games.
50:19 I believe he missed the last seven games of the season.
50:22 Yep.
50:22 So that probably led to those other two
50:25 maybe playing a handful on a weekly basis.
50:28 But yeah, you want your two best edge rushers on the field
50:33 70 plus% of each and every week that they're healthy.
50:36 100% without a doubt.
50:38 All right, let's head back to the phone lines as we move forward here on BBKL.
50:42 We got John in Cape Cod.
50:44 Welcome aboard, John.
50:45 What do you got for us?
50:46 Hi, good afternoon Matt Lance.
50:50 you know, uh, one thing is consistent with your show.
50:53 No matter which pair of guys are on, it's always good.
50:57 Well, appreciate you tuning in.
50:58 Thank you.
50:59 Well, I I'm speaking the truth after being a Giant fan for over 60 years.
51:05 But I'll tell you something.
51:06 Uh, my view right now is that the media gets too caught up in the semantics.
51:13 By that, what I mean is the best players on defense
51:19 are the guys that fit into a situational football mold.
51:24 The thing that Bill Bich brought to the top of the crest with with defenses.
51:32 One thing that hasn't changed is over the years,
51:35 the linebacker has been the most versatile, athletic guy on the field.
51:41 very simply because he has to be a run stopper
51:44 and he has to be able to be a pass defender.
51:48 I think we get caught up in in whether we're playing a 43 or a 34 defense.
51:55 I think what they're playing today is
51:57 a combination of both depending on the situation.
52:01 Over the years, it's always been the defense evolving
52:06 based on the offense and what the offense is doing.
52:11 Tom Landry invented the 43 because he wanted big
52:16 linemen to keep offensive linemen off the giant linebackers.
52:22 You go to the 86 Giants who were the best Giants team I think I've ever seen
52:27 and they had four big fast linebackers that could
52:33 be run stoppers as well as pass defenders.
52:37 Everybody thinks of Lawrence Taylor as a pass rusher,
52:41 and he was certainly the best ever,
52:43 but you can see clips of him in single coverage against guys like uh Jerry Rice,
52:50 and you can watch what he did
52:51 on running plays where he made the most unbelievable
52:55 plays down the line that I've ever seen
52:58 in all the years I've been watching football.
53:00 Well, and he had that pick six against the Lions,
53:02 which is an extremely notable play, too.
53:05 Yeah.
53:05 Well, how about the one you want to see?
53:07 You want to see the play that I think is
53:09 the most athletic play I've ever seen by a linebacker.
53:13 Watch the clip of Taylor against I think it was Mazize with the New Orleans
53:19 Saints where Taylor goes down the line on the inside and he's playing at 245.
53:26 He catches 195 pound running back before he hits the line of scrimmage,
53:32 which means he's covering about seven
53:35 yards faster than that guy's covering four.
53:39 But it wasn't just him, you know, in addition to the four starters th
53:44 those Giants had had Andy Hedden and Byron Hunt, who were both in fact,
53:51 Byron Hunt was the fastest of all linebackers on the whole team.
53:54 And these guys were all 230 plus.
53:58 Uh John Madden called Brad Vanpelt one
54:03 of the best runs stopping linebackers he ever saw.
54:07 And Van Pelt was 235.
54:09 I mean, he was a converted safety from college.
54:12 Sure.
54:12 In fairness, it was a different game back in 1986, too.
54:16 So, that's the other thing you got to take into consideration.
54:19 Absolutely.
54:19 The the game the game evolves.
54:22 Sure.
54:22 the human beings evolve.
54:24 All these guys every decade in pro football,
54:28 you can watch the evolution of the athlete because they get bigger and faster.
54:36 Absolutely.
54:35 And the players have to match that.
54:37 I think the Giants have added tremendous depth
54:41 with especially what they've done the past
54:44 couple of weeks to filling Dexter Lawrence's place.
54:48 They're now going to be basically playing
54:50 defensive tackle or nose tackle by committee,
54:55 but they have guys that can play many different roles.
54:59 Whether you want to call them an ed rusher,
55:01 an outside linebacker, an inside linebacker, they're all fast.
55:07 The difference sometimes is a little bit of speed because of extra
55:12 size and being extra thick to be able to stop the run.
55:18 Well, and that's what you want with a roster, John.
55:21 And listen, we'll let you go on that note.
55:22 Appreciate the phone call.
55:24 You want to know that you're protected from injury in terms of if, god forbid,
55:30 you lose a pass rusher or you lose an interior linebacker,
55:34 you're not looking around and wondering, boy, who do we plug in?
55:39 So, it goes back to Matt what we were
55:40 talking about earlier when I brought up Chanty Goldston.
55:43 And don't forget the fact that he could be moved inside and outside.
55:47 And Ree, I'm sure when we finish talking about his career,
55:52 okay, he's not just going to be an inside guy.
55:54 They're going to find ways to tap into his various
55:57 skill sets and where he can line up.
56:00 And the versatility goes even well beyond that in terms of we
56:05 could sit here and talk about guys on offense and defense.
56:07 But when you talk about the linebacking position, the athleticism,
56:11 the length, the ability to line up on the edge,
56:14 the ability to help on the interior at least also maybe better
56:18 protects them from injury compared to what
56:22 they experienced over the previous seasons.
56:24 Yeah, I'm glad you actually brought up Arval Ree because
56:27 I don't think this has quite been talked about enough.
56:29 If you look at his career at Ohio State,
56:32 it really wasn't until this past season that he
56:36 truly broke out and became the star that he was, the all-American linebacker.
56:40 And that was because Matt Patricia came to Columbus.
56:44 And you know, obviously you can say all you want about his time in the NFL,
56:48 Matt Patricia, but he was great for Ohio State this past year.
56:51 And the biggest thing that I think that led,
56:53 and this is coming from Dan Salomon upstairs,
56:56 who eats, breathe, and sleeps Ohio State football.
56:58 Does he ever is that Matt Patricia figured out the best way to use Arval Reese
57:02 and that is by using him as like a chess piece all over the place.
57:06 And I'm not saying that in like a way that he doesn't
57:08 have a defined role because he did have a role for Aral Reese,
57:12 but I think the Giants and Dinard Wilson are
57:14 going to use Alvar Ree in a similar way.
57:17 Like yes, he will start next to Tmaine Edmonds at that middle linebacker spot,
57:21 but they're going to move him around all over the defense.
57:23 He showed that he's capable of rushing the quarterback.
57:26 He can line up at the edge if you need him to.
57:28 He can play all over.
57:29 So, that is going to be a great way for Dinard Wilson
57:32 to keep opposing offenses on their toes and not really know what to expect.
57:36 You know, I I think I spoke about this last
57:38 week that Dinard Wilson is going to be sending
57:41 blitzes from just all over the place and keeping
57:44 the opposing offensive lines guessing of where is that, you know,
57:47 extra blitzer going to be coming from.
57:49 Arval Reese is going to play a very big part in that because
57:51 he can line up just about anywhere in the front seven.
57:54 And I think we're gonna see that pretty early on.
57:57 Well, that's what everybody was talking about leading
58:00 into the draft that he is so athletic.
58:03 You have to have a specific game plan.
58:05 And I do think the Giants have that.
58:08 I think Harbaugh company goes back to what he was talking about when he
58:11 sat Malik Neighbors down and explained this is how we're going to utilize him.
58:14 So, I do see what you're talking about, Matt.
58:18 I just I'd be very interested how early though in the season
58:22 we see some of that stuff because I think you
58:24 also need to walk the fine line of are you overwhelming
58:28 the player as he's getting settled in to a new defense.
58:31 So I could see that down the road.
58:33 I just don't know how quickly we're going to get into that.
58:37 No, that's totally fair.
58:38 You don't want to put too much on a rookie plate week one.
58:41 So that's fair.
58:42 But I don't think it's going to be too long into the season
58:44 where we're going to see that versatility really put on the spotlight.
58:48 Let's head back to the phone lines.
58:49 Scott is in Portland joining us here on BBKL.
58:52 What's happening, Scott?
58:54 Hi.
58:55 Uh, thanks for taking my call.
58:56 Yeah, I'm I'm real happy about the reader uh situation.
58:59 I think now that uh that that's happened,
59:01 we have our our sort of our plan A established as far as the roster being
59:06 in good shape to produce our starters and I
59:08 think our our plan A is in good shape.
59:10 So, I want to talk about the contingency plans, the backup plans.
59:13 And I would say, I don't know if you agree
59:16 with this, but I would say that um on our offense,
59:19 our best player uh our best established player is uh is Andrew Thomas.
59:24 As far as when I say established player,
59:26 I mean somebody who's played a couple dozen
59:28 NFL games and established a level of play.
59:31 I would say Andrew Thomas is our our best offensive player.
59:34 and and so I'm thinking of, you know,
59:36 what's the contingency plan for if Andrew Thomas gets injured um
59:41 as probably our most important uh contingency plan that that we have.
59:45 And so if he were to go down in um in training camp or whatever,
59:49 um I would say I'm just spitballing here.
59:53 I would say that a a contingency plan to consider
59:57 would be to move Germaine Aluminar to left tackle, move CCO to right tackle,
1:00:03 and sign Greg Van Roden off the street um from free agency.
1:00:07 And so I wanted to throw that out there as a contingency plan.
1:00:10 Well, Scott, I don't mean to interrupt you.
1:00:12 Let me just clarify that.
1:00:13 Are you saying that in the event Andrew Thomas goes
1:00:16 down and Greg Van Rhoden is not on the team,
1:00:20 you would make those changes and bring Van Rhoden in off the street,
1:00:24 if I understood that correctly.
1:00:25 Is that the scenario?
1:00:26 I'm just saying.
1:00:27 Yeah, I'm saying what's the what's the backup plan?
1:00:30 What's the backup contingency plan?
1:00:31 If Andrew Thomas goes down, let's say in training camp, what would you do?
1:00:34 And that's what I'm saying.
1:00:35 That's what I would do.
1:00:36 Yeah.
1:00:36 Okay.
1:00:36 I mean, I disagree with you
1:00:39 that if you thought there was a better plan and why you thought it'd be better.
1:00:42 just wanted to see what your thoughts are because I think
1:00:44 that's our most important backup plan we need to figure out.
1:00:47 So, I want to hear your thoughts on that.
1:00:48 And I would agree with you 100% Scott and it's a very good question and I
1:00:52 I think it will further the dialogue here on the show.
1:00:54 So, we certainly appreciate it.
1:00:57 We've had in passing some different conversations because
1:01:00 Matt I've always brought up and I know John and I have maybe disagreed a little
1:01:04 bit in terms of the swing tackle being solidified.
1:01:07 Right now, I think Marcus Bose certainly has
1:01:10 a position to be in the driver's seat, but to say that it's locked down,
1:01:15 I don't know if I'd go so far because once again,
1:01:17 we are talking about an individual that was drafted in the fifth round in 2025
1:01:22 and also is now working with a new
1:01:23 offensive line coach and a new coaching staff.
1:01:26 And whenever those changes come in, I don't just assume that how
1:01:29 a player was utilized a year ago is going to roll over.
1:01:32 But at least based on common sense,
1:01:35 let me answer the last caller's question, the hypothetical first.
1:01:39 And I'm curious your perspective, too.
1:01:41 The reason why I disagree with what he threw
1:01:44 out is you're moving too many offensive linemen around.
1:01:49 You're actually hurting yourself more than
1:01:51 helping yourself because under his hypothetical,
1:01:54 first of all, you're signing a guy off the street.
1:01:56 And I know Van Rhoden was here last year,
1:01:58 but once again, he will have not known the offense.
1:02:01 he will have to learn a whole new regime in terms of coaching staff.
1:02:06 So, you can't take that for granted.
1:02:07 Then you're moving Illuminor, who yes,
1:02:10 has played different positions in his career,
1:02:12 but he's been on the right side recently.
1:02:14 Now, you're moving him to the complete opposite side,
1:02:16 which any veteran offensive lineman will tell
1:02:18 you the footwork is the complete opposite.
1:02:21 So, now you have to reprogram yourself to do that.
1:02:25 And you're then taking a rookie who you're trying to get comfortable at a new
1:02:29 position at guard after he played tackle
1:02:31 in college and now kicking him back out.
1:02:33 So you're changing three different positions, Matt.
1:02:36 To me, that's got nightmare written all over it.
1:02:40 I want to make it less of a game of musical chairs.
1:02:45 And the way to me that you do that is you see whether
1:02:48 or not you have a practical guy that could just slide in at left tackle.
1:02:52 And we've seen Bo has had experience at left tackle already.
1:02:55 Okay.
1:02:55 We at least have ample evidence of that.
1:02:58 I don't know once again what the new coaching staff thinks
1:03:00 of him because we haven't really seen much of anything at this stage.
1:03:04 So there's not a lot of tangible evidence.
1:03:06 But as it stands right now, May 6th, okay, 1:28 p.m.
1:03:10 Eastern.
1:03:11 I'm being specific here.
1:03:12 So I hope you got the pen and pads at home.
1:03:14 I would say the most sensible backup plan to answer your question if
1:03:19 god forbid Andrew Thomas goes down is simply to move Marcus Bow into left
1:03:24 tackle and that is one change you're making as opposed to three
1:03:28 or four which to me is way too overwhelming especially with a rookie involved.
1:03:33 Yeah, no doubt about it.
1:03:34 I mean I think that is by far and way
1:03:36 the easiest and most logical thing that you would do.
1:03:39 You just have Marcus Bow come in and obviously
1:03:42 from Andrew Thomas to Marcus Bow there's a step down.
1:03:45 There's no doubt about it.
1:03:46 Andrew Thomas and there's going to be a step down no matter how you
1:03:48 no matter unless you have another allp pro as your swing tackle then obviously
1:03:53 stepping down from Andrew Thomas it's going to be a downgrade no matter what.
1:03:56 But there are things that you can do to help Marcus Bo if
1:04:00 he were to have to step in for Andrew Thomas at left tackle.
1:04:03 Put you know have a a tight end lined up next to him more snaps than not.
1:04:08 Give him help.
1:04:09 have, you know, Pat Ricard in the back field giving him help on passing plays,
1:04:13 whatever it might be.
1:04:15 That is 100% what you would rather do than switch, as you mentioned, Lance,
1:04:20 switch Germaine Aluminar from right tackle to left tackle
1:04:23 because all of these offensive linemen would tell you,
1:04:26 it's one thing to move from, you know,
1:04:27 guard to tackle or tackle to guard if you're staying
1:04:30 on the same side because the footwork stays the same.
1:04:33 It's just there little obviously there are changes but when you go
1:04:38 from a left side to the right side you're switching everything up and that is
1:04:42 where it takes a little bit more of an acclamation that obviously if
1:04:46 something were to happen they're not going to have time to get all
1:04:49 these guys acclimated at the at different positions and as you mentioned Maui
1:04:54 Noah you're coming in and the John Harau has said he's going to be
1:04:57 our right guard let him focus on right guard he's going to be
1:05:00 a rookie he's going to have enough on his plate trying to get you know,
1:05:04 a hold of an NFL uh an NFL playbook,
1:05:07 the speed of the NFL going up against NFL pass rushers.
1:05:12 You don't want to also then have him worrying about a position change.
1:05:15 I mean, offensive lineman will tell you the biggest thing is having consistency.
1:05:20 That is the biggest thing on an offensive line.
1:05:22 The reason why the line has had su or had success last
1:05:26 year was because for most of the season it was pretty consistent,
1:05:28 the same group of guys out there.
1:05:30 There wasn't a whole lot of big changes.
1:05:32 You know, obviously some guys missed a little bit of time,
1:05:35 but it wasn't big changes made to the line week in and week out.
1:05:39 So, I'm with you.
1:05:40 If you could just put Marcus Bow in, keep everyone else the same,
1:05:44 and let the other four,
1:05:46 you know, grow and get comfortable in their respective positions,
1:05:50 that's 100% what you want to I mean,
1:05:51 I guess if if it's the very beginning of training camp
1:05:55 and god forbid it's a season ending injury for Andrew Thomas,
1:05:58 then you know, maybe then maybe you think about more drastic alternatives.
1:06:05 But I mean, if it's Andrew Thomas,
1:06:07 if or even whoever it might be missing a couple of games,
1:06:11 you don't want to throw a wrench in the growth and development of the whole
1:06:14 offensive line by switching three different guys
1:06:17 in new positions just for a temporary fix.
1:06:21 And here's the other part that I want to add,
1:06:24 which is also why I would be against that.
1:06:26 Francis Mauinoa, who you just drafted in the first round,
1:06:30 even if you said, "Well,
1:06:32 movie Luminor to left tackle because you think he's your best option
1:06:37 to anchor the left side and the blind side of Jackson Dart." Well,
1:06:41 even if you kept Maui Noah at right guard, okay, let's not kick him out, Matt.
1:06:46 Let's go with a different hypothetical.
1:06:48 you're now still telling him to get used to a new right tackle,
1:06:51 which I don't love because to your point,
1:06:54 I think one of the worst things you could do
1:06:56 for a rookie offensive lineman is have him play various positions,
1:07:00 number one, but number two, play next to different offensive linemen.
1:07:04 And sometimes you can't control that due to injury,
1:07:06 but you can control that in this scenario because
1:07:09 you're talking about an injury to the left side.
1:07:12 You're not talking about an injury if Illuminor went down.
1:07:14 Okay, you got no choice.
1:07:16 he's got to play next to a new right tackle.
1:07:18 But if Illuminor is healthy, then I would much rather turn to a different option
1:07:23 on the left side so that you're keeping the right side stable.
1:07:27 Yeah.
1:07:27 And it's not I don't think it's only just not wanting
1:07:30 to switch the guy next to Francis Mau Noah, but again,
1:07:34 if you're moving Germaine Aluminor from the right side to the left
1:07:36 side and then just having someone else step in at right tackle,
1:07:40 that guy is obviously going to be a step down from Germaine Lumor.
1:07:42 There's a reason why Germaine Aluminor signed for the amount of money that he
1:07:45 did this off seasonason got the multi-year deal to be a starting right tackle.
1:07:50 Whoever you fill in, whether it's even if it's
1:07:52 just putting Marcus Bow in again, that's a step down.
1:07:55 And when you have a rookie right guard,
1:07:57 you want him to have the best players around him possible because
1:08:00 that's obviously going to help his growth and development as a rookie.
1:08:02 So, you want him to be playing next to Germaine Aluminor for all 17 games.
1:08:06 You don't want to switch that and then have someone who's not quite as good
1:08:09 as Germaine Aluminor filling in because that could
1:08:12 potentially hurt Francis Maui Noah's development as well.
1:08:16 Let's get to a few social media comments before we wrap up
1:08:20 shop in terms of some of the topics that we've been talking about.
1:08:24 Uh here's a comment from MB Goblin.
1:08:27 Competition makes everyone better.
1:08:28 We now have competition at defensive tackle,
1:08:30 cornerback, wide receiver, and offensive line.
1:08:33 That was certainly a theme that Matt and I hit on over the course of the show.
1:08:38 Let's go to boy, this is a mouthful.
1:08:39 I don't even know if I'm going to attempt to pronounce it.
1:08:41 I'll just say 3134 at the tail end of the name.
1:08:44 Having Edmonds as a linebacker and experience, we should be okay.
1:08:48 It's the cornerback and safeties now that perhaps they have
1:08:52 to look at as an area to function and get together.
1:08:57 But he does say that he has faith in Drew
1:09:00 Phillips in terms of the inside and what he could provide.
1:09:03 Well, we know the outside cornerback competition is
1:09:06 going to be one to watch come camp.
1:09:08 You know, who's going to win it?
1:09:09 Is it going to be a veteran?
1:09:11 Is it going to be a rookie?
1:09:13 Remember, they brought in some new blood.
1:09:15 So, you look at who they have.
1:09:17 You got Greg Newsome, who you brought in from the Jaguars.
1:09:19 You just drafted Colton Hood and then Pulson Adibbo.
1:09:23 How is he going to Deontay handle Deontay Banks.
1:09:26 So, I mean, that's four guys right there for two outside spots.
1:09:31 That is going to be of all the positions.
1:09:34 That is one to watch in terms of maybe the stiffest competition in training
1:09:38 camp as we really get ahead of ourselves in terms of an early preview.
1:09:43 And then one other comment that I wanted to touch on going back to what
1:09:48 we were talking about with respect to circling
1:09:51 back to the defensive line and goblet again.
1:09:55 DJ Reer isn't going to replace Dex,
1:09:57 but that room now is better rotationwise and will be competitive.
1:10:02 And we were once again hinting at that.
1:10:05 You're not going to replace Dexter Lawrence.
1:10:06 And no individual, no group is going to replace Dexter Lawrence because
1:10:11 it goes back to Matt what we had emphasized off the top.
1:10:14 First of all, none of them have the pass rushing ability as Dexter Lawrence.
1:10:18 Okay, that's the big separator.
1:10:20 Number two, and I know you were talking about DJ Reer did draw double teams,
1:10:24 but I guarantee you if I talk to any
1:10:27 offensive line coach or offensive coordinator in the NFL,
1:10:30 and I say, "This week, you're going to have to worry about Dexter Lawrence.
1:10:34 This week, I'm taking Dex out of the lineup.
1:10:36 You just got to worry about DJ Reer.
1:10:38 You're going to tell me there's not a difference
1:10:40 in terms of the approach and the game plan?" Oh, for sure.
1:10:44 I mean, so that is all you need to know from that standpoint.
1:10:47 Yeah.
1:10:47 I mean, look, you we have both said it multiple times.
1:10:51 Dexter, there's a reason why Dexter Lawrence is considered to be
1:10:54 one of the top interior defensive linemen in the NFL.
1:10:56 The way he's played, you know,
1:10:58 throwing out last season, the three previous seasons,
1:11:01 he showed that he is either the best or right up there with, you know,
1:11:05 Chris Jones, Quinnon Williams,
1:11:07 not quite on this the level of where Aaron Donald was,
1:11:10 but in that tier nonetheless, he is phenomenal.
1:11:14 There's no doubt about it.
1:11:15 But one thing that, you know, the trade of Dexter Lawrence did do is
1:11:19 if Dexter Lawrence was still on this team,
1:11:20 like obviously the top of the depth chart at defensive tackle would be better.
1:11:24 No doubt about it.
1:11:25 But the three guys that the Giants just signed the last week,
1:11:28 not all three would be here.
1:11:29 They would not have the cap space to make that work.
1:11:32 Maybe one of them would be here.
1:11:33 Maybe.
1:11:34 But I don't know if it would be DJ
1:11:36 Reer with the reported numbers that he agreed to.
1:11:39 I don't know if the Giants would have been
1:11:40 able to afford that if Dexter Lawrence is here.
1:11:41 Again, I'm not saying that the group
1:11:43 of three is better than having Dexter Lawrence here,
1:11:46 but it definitely gives the Giants better depth at an area
1:11:49 that was considered to be probably the team's Achilles heel,
1:11:53 the biggest weakness, the interior of the defensive line.
1:11:56 So, while the top of the depth chart, took a hit.
1:11:59 We'll see.
1:12:00 DJ Reer has shown flashes of being a very good defensive
1:12:02 tackle and the depth below him is a lot better now.
1:12:06 And it's because they were able to clear the cap space of Dex Lawrence.
1:12:10 If he was still here,
1:12:11 Dex obviously the pass rushing ability would still be there,
1:12:14 but the depth behind him would be significantly worse.
1:12:18 Given the circumstances of when they traded Dexter Lawrence,
1:12:20 who was still available to say you walk away with two established veterans in DJ
1:12:25 Reer and Shelby Harris is not a bad position to be in because you
1:12:29 could be in more of a youth
1:12:31 movement where you're really playing the guessing game
1:12:33 and you have Darius Alexander next to a rookie and you're hoping for the best.
1:12:37 So that at least helps them immensely that they have two guys that have a track
1:12:43 record in that department in terms of stopping
1:12:46 the run and battling different offensive linemen.
1:12:49 Yeah.
1:12:49 And again, you have to just remember that it's not
1:12:51 just the defensive line that got affected with the Dexter
1:12:54 trade because they added the 10th pick in which
1:12:56 they took Maui Noah and greatly improved the offensive line.
1:12:59 So it's a give and take.
1:13:00 So, while the defensive line, I will say even with these additions,
1:13:03 you know, took a bit of a hit getting rid of Dex Lawrence.
1:13:05 Of course, he's a top tier talent,
1:13:07 you were able to fill it with a couple of reliable,
1:13:10 consistent veterans and also help your offensive line, which let's not forget,
1:13:15 Jackson Dart is going to be the biggest key to this team's success this year.
1:13:18 If he can take a step and be, you know, that year 2 jump that we see some
1:13:21 quarterbacks have made these last couple of years,
1:13:23 then the Giants could be an, you know, actual fighting for the playoffs.
1:13:26 It can be a legitimate contender.
1:13:28 And what better way to help him take
1:13:30 that step than having a big mer at that right
1:13:34 guard position that can hopefully grow and be the anchor
1:13:37 of this offensive line for the next decade plus.
1:13:40 It's very similar to when you parted ways with Odell Beckham.
1:13:43 You got various pieces and you just need to see how those pan out.
1:13:47 So, it's evaluating Dexter Lawrence versus
1:13:49 a rookie right guard and veteran defensive lineman
1:13:53 and how do those things offset one another
1:13:56 moving forward plus cap space too as well.
1:13:58 A lot of different dynamics in play.
1:14:00 All right, that is going to wrap
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1:14:41 Good conversation, Matt, as always.
1:14:43 Appreciate everybody for tuning in from Atside Tech.
1:14:46 I'm Lance Meadows signing off on the latest edition of Big Blue Kickoff Live.
1:14:49 We'll be up and running again Thursday 12:30 p.m.
1:14:51 Eastern.
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1:14:54 Have a good one.