How to Spot Non-verbal cues | Jefferson Fisher

0:00 You talk a lot in your book about the non-verbals, which would be, you know,

0:09 kind of I think you make the reference of fight orflight, rest, and digest.

0:12 And as a trial attorney,

0:14 I'm sure you are queued in on those all the time for both

0:17 the people you represent and maybe the people on the other side of the table.

0:21 Yeah.

0:20 as an adviser, what are some non-verbals where

0:23 you might be able to see there's a there's

0:25 a hidden conversation or or some resistance to a conversation

0:28 and how you need to start to unpack that?

0:31 Every person has a surface and a depth

0:36 that's their current and what's really going on underneath.

0:39 And this is this could be marriage advice

0:42 as much as it could be between client and professional.

0:47 As soon as you can pick up on what

0:49 I call the ignition modes and the cooling modes,

0:53 like you have this phase where you get you all worked up

0:55 and then a cooling phase that kind of calms you down.

0:58 The non-verbals you have to look for, especially in a professional setting,

1:02 is the lean away.

1:04 Anytime there's just the brightest little push away,

1:08 it's usually a push away from the the conversation.

1:13 So, let's put in let's say I'm taking your deposition.

1:16 Mhm.

1:16 right now.

1:17 Or let's say you're taking mine.

1:18 Okay.

1:18 All right.

1:19 So, you have your elbows on the table.

1:20 You're showing confidence.

1:21 You're asking this question.

1:22 You're staring at them in the eyes.

1:24 And you ask me a question that makes me uncomfortable

1:26 or maybe I'm not really sure and what do I do?

1:28 All right.

1:29 Let me think on it.

1:30 So, I just naturally push away from the table.

1:33 So, I'm like, ah, I need some distance here.

1:35 So, that right there is a very big sign.

1:36 And you see that a lot.

1:37 I see that all the time.

1:39 Folding arms.

1:40 People say, you know, that shows a lot of defensiveness.

1:44 Yes.

1:45 I don't see that near as much as touching your neck like that.

1:49 Touching your face is a very high what they say is it's it

1:53 shows you're you you feel vulnerable and so you're having to protect yourself.

1:58 I want to make sure I don't like cover the mic

2:00 but it's like it's because the neck is exposing right.

2:03 Think of medieval caveman.

2:07 Exactly.

2:07 Yeah.

2:07 Yeah.

2:08 Because you know that's your vulnerable.

2:10 I mean you could have all the muscles in the world but you can't like

2:12 get jacked in your neck.

2:13 You know what I'm saying?

2:14 So you we do this a lot where we're covering our

2:18 So it's like uh like this kind of Yeah.

2:21 Yeah.

2:22 Yeah.

2:22 Anytime you're touching your face,

2:24 it's usually some kind of indicator that something

2:26 else is bothering you or going on that it's

2:29 they just all you have to it's not like you have to be a mind reader.

2:33 It's only saying they're thinking of something else.

2:35 There's a conversation in their head that I'm not invited to right now.

2:39 And so it's having the patience to be able to draw the conversation out enough

2:44 that they feel comfortable once you're I mean it's you're truly

2:48 drawing it out of that they feel comfortable

2:50 enough of okay am I in a safe

2:52 enough environment to say this otherwise they won't.

2:55 So okay we got

2:57 um people pulling away.

2:58 We have people touching their neck.

3:01 I find that one of the biggest indicators that if I can

3:05 tell somebody is I've hit a a sensitive area is their breath.

3:10 They kind of fidget and they'll do like this.

3:13 Like they they take in a really big breath in that moment.

3:17 Or like if somebody's upset you and they

3:19 say something you don't like, what do we do?

3:20 We go like we we turn our head as if

3:23 like I don't know if I really agree with that.

3:27 You know, I don't agree with your politics.

3:29 you know, I don't I don't agree what you're with what you're saying.

3:31 And so those to me are the three

3:32 that as soon as I get that, I'm automatically on.

3:37 Okay, I need to ease off a little bit.

3:39 Let's

3:40 let's let's dive down.

3:41 So, in the book, how you kind of disarm this gentleman that hates attorneys,

3:47 doesn't trust attorneys.

3:48 I I will say you guys might one up advisors, so you might be the next up.

3:53 Yeah.

3:53 So, um you basically almost like change the complete script and just say,

3:59 "Hey, I was your exact question something about,

4:02 hey, what's been tough for you this year?" It was

4:04 something where you pivoted just to more of the life side.

4:07 Yeah.

4:07 And kind of opened up a different

4:08 conversation cuz he was resisting the other conversation.

4:12 So, when you see that you're an adviser, how do you shift it

4:16 to build rapport and start to break down the walls of defense?

4:20 In that moment, I had to say, "Okay,

4:23 I need to pull him out of what we're doing right now."

4:26 Like, let's forget we're in a room.

4:28 Let's forget our titles.

4:30 Let me just ask how you doing.

4:33 Mhm.

4:32 And that's what I did.

4:33 I I asked him, "So, what's your biggest

4:35 what's been your biggest struggle this year?" Like,

4:37 "What do you what are you chewing on?" You know?

4:40 I mean, because we we all have things that are going on for sure.

4:43 And so I just was I I just felt blessed with the situation that I

4:49 had for him to be able to actually voice it even though it was in anger.

4:53 And see, especially when it was in anger because the the higher that tension,

4:58 that just means the bigger the release I'm about to get.

5:02 Mhm.

5:01 And so when somebody's yelling at me or raise their voice,

5:05 they're going to come down.

5:06 They can't yell forever.

5:09 Mhm.

5:07 And so it's like I they'll hear me then.

5:11 They just have to get it all.

5:12 They have to get it all out.

5:13 So, how do you apply that to in the financial advisor kind of roles?

5:18 You have to be able to say, "All right,

5:20 let me pull you out of this dollars and cents conversation.

5:24 Forget that I want to sign you up.

5:27 Forget that I know anything about money or that you want

5:30 me to money manage your money or anything like that." Um,

5:34 for forget on the idea of wealth like what's

5:39 what else is wealth to you aside from money?

5:42 Let's forget that there's money.

5:44 What else is wealthy to you?

5:45 What's a sign of success in your life?

5:48 Have that conversation with them.

5:50 Wouldn't you get to know them more

5:52 for sure

5:52 for you get to say, "Okay, now we talked about money, wealth.

5:55 What else is wealth to you in life?

5:58 What what other kind of wealth are you building?

6:00 You having time with your grandkids?

6:02 Are you building time with your your spouse?

6:06 How else are you building wealth?" Because my job is not just the money aspect.

6:11 I also want to build I mean to you know this as well as anybody.

6:14 I mean you money is just a piece of the pie and wealth.

6:21 And so if you say look I'm only here

6:22 to I'm talking about the holistic wealth not just the financial.

6:28 Imagine the conversations you get to build with people

6:30 of get to hear their their hopes their dreams

6:32 and how where they're dedicating their time and well

6:35 and that is also often times what gets people stuck.

6:39 They're looking at the accounts.

6:41 They're looking at the returns.

6:42 They're looking at the spreadsheets.

6:44 And there's an anxiety about it.

6:47 Yeah.

6:46 And when you take and say, "That's just the tool.

6:49 What's the purpose?" Yeah.

6:51 You know, what what's this actually for?

6:53 What time with the grandkids?

6:54 Where are they at?

6:55 Right.

6:56 How many kids do you have?

6:57 Now you're getting into the aspirational, the emotional side.

7:01 Absolutely.

7:01 So, you're you're almost like when you feel the resistance,

7:04 it's almost like take a step back

7:06 and let's kind of redirect and kind of refocus.

7:08 That's kind of what I'm hearing you say.

7:10 Yeah.

7:11 I mean, my Well, it and it tracks with my belief of like

7:14 you you're not going to be able to take the money with you.

7:17 So then what are you doing it for?

7:20 Mhm.

7:20 Yeah.

7:20 Everybody wants to make money.

7:21 What are you doing it for?

7:22 You can't take it with you.

7:24 And so everything especially in the in financial advisor,

7:30 you're advising them on things they can't take with them.

7:33 Now, they can leave it and pass it on, but that's not going to render them

7:39 the the moments of their life they're going

7:41 to remember when it's time for them to go.

7:46 Yeah.

7:45 And so, when you put the emphasis on, yeah,

7:49 money's cool, that's not what I'm about.

7:52 And so, that was the mindset that I had to take

7:54 of that I I I was led to take on, yeah, attorney income, yeah, that's cool.

8:02 That's nothing compared to the value that I get

8:04 to to help people to that kind of stuff.

8:08 Helping people argue less and talk more, have conversations,

8:11 and actually communicate and improve

8:13 their businesses and improve their relationships.

8:15 Yeah, that's way cooler.

8:17 How hard is that to allow for space?

8:22 You talk about in the book, taking a breath,

8:25 like a like a a pause or a beat before you respond.

8:29 I feel like whether you're in a conversation or maybe you're on stage

8:32 and you're presenting a lot of adviserss do that as well like

8:35 a a space like that at first feels like an eternity even

8:40 though to the audience like you barely even took a took a breath.

8:44 Is that a muscle you have to exercise and get comfortable?

8:47 How do you how would you recommend

8:48 to advisers to start to develop that skill set?

8:56 You just got to do it.

8:58 That's the hard part.

8:59 You just got to choose to do it.

9:01 It um once you start doing it and hear the difference in your language,

9:10 it just changes something in you when you feel the confidence.

9:16 Don't wait.

9:18 I don't have to have this stream of consciousness where it's you where

9:22 people I know some people they just start talking and they almost kind

9:25 of have to like catch their breath at the end of talking because

9:27 they've just gone on and it's just a nothing but a run of words.

9:31 But if I can whether it's a use of a small

9:34 small pause like just a little bit to keep you attentive, right?

9:39 that just a little bit on edge.

9:41 Or maybe it's something where you've said something

9:43 that's pretty hurtful and rather than me responding,

9:46 I just let it sit five, seven seconds.

9:52 The dynamic changes.

9:53 I don't say any words, but yet I say everything in the in the silence.

10:00 So I I find there's the benefit of pausing depending on the length is

10:06 that to me if you can do it well you can master conversation pausing by itself.

10:13 Pausing by itself it's um like you think of think

10:19 of people you most respect most likely they're not really fast talkers.

10:25 Think of people you love to be around.

10:28 Think about your grandparents.

10:30 Like, how do you want people to feel in conversation?

10:32 Do you want them to feel like they're in a cold waiting room

10:35 at the doctor or do you want them

10:36 to feel like it's your grandfather's living room?

10:39 Yeah.

10:40 When whenever you are able to slow down in the conversation, it's it's relaxing.

10:46 They'll be they want to tell you more because they feel

10:49 like this is a safe space to pretty much say anything.

10:52 That's what you want.

10:54 You think of I think of like my grandfather.

10:57 I can ask him a question and he'll Yep.

11:02 You know what I mean?

11:03 Like he's in no rush whatsoever.

11:05 But what his yes is his yes and his no is his no.

11:09 I never have to question that.

11:11 So I I would definitely venture to say that if you can master the pause,

11:14 you can master communication.

11:17 I feel like human nature just says that is a wise person.

11:21 If somebody that pauses and speaks slower, it just it's more thought.

11:24 Number one, it is more thoughtful.

11:26 Yeah.

11:26 But it [clears throat] also represents even if it's not more thoughtful,

11:29 it represents that way.

11:31 Yeah.

11:31 Here's another thought for financial advisors specifically,

11:34 and I know this as an attorney.

11:36 When I get a question from a client, there's this legal question.

11:41 Let's say they're right in front of me.

11:43 This urge for me to feel like I need

11:45 the right answer right away and it needs to sound beautiful.

11:49 And that's just not real life because most

11:51 of the time sometimes you're just making it up, right?

11:57 I I know legal principles and I can guess and I know the law,

12:01 but every set of facts is so different.

12:03 So, how can I be in a a place where [cough]

12:06 I'm going [clears throat] to know with a thousand% certainty of something?

12:09 I generally don't.

12:10 It's I mean, that's why they're that's why

12:13 you're going to trial in the first place.

12:14 That's why juries that's why you have appeals court.

12:17 It's it's it's all over the place.

12:19 But if you have somebody that's right in front

12:23 of you and they ask you a question, what I always try to do is say,

12:29 "Let me think." I just I I choose to let them see me thinking about it.

12:37 Hm.

12:38 Rather than try to have that rapid fire response

12:42 because what it's telling them is that what I'm

12:44 about to say is actually thought about because they're

12:48 not they're not always paying me for the action.

12:52 They're paying me for the thinking.

12:54 And so it's the same thing in the the financial world.

12:58 They're they're paying for your mind.

13:00 And so when I can ask me a question rather than have that rapid fire,

13:04 oh yeah, yeah, we're going to do X, Y, and Z.

13:06 and this is what the plan is and blah blah blah.

13:08 If I can just stop and go, that's a great question.

13:11 Let me think about it.

13:13 It works with your spouse, too.

13:15 She asks you something, he asks you something and you go,

13:20 I want to think before I respond to that.

13:24 All right.

13:25 Or somebody

13:26 would have avoided a lot of conflict over the years if I would have done that.

13:28 Yeah.

13:29 I'm telling you, it's [clears throat] well, it's it's come from a lot of pain,

13:32 [laughter] but it or if somebody says something that's

13:35 kind of rude to you or ugly to you, rather than snapping back, say, "Yeah,

13:41 I'm going to need some time with that before I respond." I mean, that's

13:46 You almost just black belt ninjas.

13:49 You just do.

13:49 You just uh You really do.

13:51 You You um you jujitsued them.

13:55 You really do.

13:57 They're like, "Man, I I don't even know where to go with this right now." Yeah.

14:00 Well, it ends up that they they put themselves in a headlock,

14:03 you know, that's and that's that's what you want.

14:06 Uh to be able to uh communicate in a way that

14:12 look, I'm going to make you feel bad

14:13 about yourself and I don't have to say anything.

14:16 Like that's that's a pretty powerful way to communicate.

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