Most Intriguing Picks of the NFL Draft | The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny

0:01 [music]

0:04 Welcome back to the Mini Cam Show featuring Lenny, only NFL podcast.

0:08 One of the host's favorite third round pick was Jaylen Husky,

0:12 safety out of Maryland.

0:14 I have no Jaylen Husky takes for you, Lance Zierlein.

0:16 That's Lance Zierlein who I cannot believe has never been

0:20 on this podcast before because we have been friends for years.

0:23 You guys, I'm sure know his work at NFL Network.

0:26 He's also a radio host in Houston.

0:28 What time is your show on Houston?

0:29 Uh 7:00 to 10:00 a.m.

0:30 Central every day.

0:32 That is a That is a gauntlet.

0:34 Uh but yeah, this is crazy.

0:36 You've never been on my show.

0:37 I'm so happy you're on my show today.

0:39 Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

0:40 I've been waiting for that I mean I've been pumped to I I just see you have

0:43 to fend off all the online hate which is

0:46 the weirdest thing I've ever seen in the world.

0:48 You do such an amazing job of putting in the work

0:51 and I respect people that put in the work.

0:53 Um because the work has gotten harder and harder uh over

0:58 the last several years as as the NFL's gone from pretty vanilla

1:02 to I mean it's a much different product than than we used

1:05 to talk about when you were in Seattle doing the Seattle local scene.

1:09 It's way different now.

1:10 I I love I love the way it's growing,

1:13 but it's also becoming more complicated in my space from a draft space, too.

1:17 Well, I love every draft you and I do get

1:20 a chance to chat a little bit about prospects we like, prospects uh By the way,

1:25 you and I both talked We talked on the phone the week

1:27 before the draft about our shared affinity for San Diego State Chris Johnson.

1:32 So, my process is I don't know anything about these guys.

1:34 I just watch tape.

1:35 I don't know like their stories unless it's something like

1:38 a red flag Sometimes you fill me in a little bit.

1:40 Didn't know he was Asian, Lance.

1:42 I was watching his his draft video.

1:44 Welcome to the Dolphins.

1:45 I'm watching thinking That's sweet.

1:46 That's sweet.

1:47 Cut to the mom, Filipino mom.

1:50 Yeah.

1:50 That's right.

1:51 He was already my third corner.

1:53 Right now, I'm just like uh all in on this guy.

1:55 to number two, number one ahead of Mansour Delain, I assume.

1:59 Woo!

1:59 don't know how to rate Yeah, well, I know you like Delain.

2:01 Yeah, Chris Johnson was um I like the stories,

2:04 but I'm late to the stories as well because I

2:06 changed my process um about five or six years ago.

2:11 I used to do summer stuff and then what was happening was I found that I would

2:17 develop a either a positive or negative filter

2:21 on a player of what I saw in You know,

2:24 let's just call it 24 and now it's the 25 draft and I decided I don't

2:30 I don't want that confirmation by I don't want that to be an issue for me.

2:33 So, I'm going to start really I'm going to watch games on TV,

2:36 then I'll do my research on the players

2:38 individually cuz I like the personality stuff,

2:40 but I can be a little late to some of the storylines.

2:43 And then I just I don't start my pro kind of like you, believe it or not.

2:46 I just wait until I get the tape and bang.

2:50 I want to know who you are based on my tape in November or let's say I

2:53 have all the tape on you in December and I find out who you are on that day.

2:57 On that one day I find out who you are on tape

2:59 and maybe that's it's a different than NFL um scouts do it.

3:03 I think it's probably different than DJ and and um well,

3:07 I think DJ does a little bit of it the same way because,

3:09 you know, he has NFL stuff he has to get through with the Chargers.

3:14 I which which is crazy that he's able to do all of that.

3:19 I I like just I like learning about him right there

3:21 in that one day as much as I can take in.

3:24 Well, we're going to talk about all those prospects today.

3:25 So, as promised because I do want to get through the entire NFL including

3:32 by the way teams that didn't pick in the first round because I feel

3:34 like I do all these war rooms and I don't get there's so many

3:37 teams that didn't pick in the first round this year that didn't get love.

3:40 And then on on Monday, Ben Solak and I talked about our favorite drafts.

3:44 We also talked about some of the more controversial drafts, Los Angeles.

3:50 Actually, a lot of the NFC West it turns out.

3:53 Um, but I didn't get to 20 teams.

3:55 So, I hit you with 10 teams, and I took 10 teams.

3:59 And the way we're going to do this, so if you are a Panthers fan,

4:03 a Texans fan, today's your day.

4:06 We are going to go through each draft,

4:07 and each of us is going to pick a player, a pick that just intrigues us.

4:12 Um, and intrigue, you can, you know, it can mean something you love,

4:16 something you want to see play out, something you're fascinated by.

4:19 So, we're going to we're going to go back and forth around the league.

4:23 I'll go first.

4:25 Yeah.

4:25 I had the Jets.

4:25 You did not have the Jets.

4:27 So, the Jets, uh, very eventful draft.

4:31 Um, to recap, David Bailey, Kony Ealy, Omar Cooper Jr., DeAngelo Pons.

4:35 Quite a haul in the first, uh, two rounds of the draft.

4:38 And then later, Daryl Jackson Jr., Cade Klubnik.

4:40 Won't have to talk about that.

4:41 It's not the one that intrigues me.

4:42 Spoiler alert, it's not [laughter] Cade Klubnik.

4:44 Uh, and Ez Cooper and B.J.

4:46 Payne.

4:46 Okay, so, um, talked a lot about all of those top three players,

4:50 and Pons a little bit.

4:52 I'm going to go with Siddiq here.

4:54 Uh, cuz the Bailey pick, you know, I've it's been talked to death.

4:56 I think we all know what he's being brought in to do,

4:58 and what why they took him, and the fit in Aaron Glenn's defense.

5:03 Siddiq's interesting.

5:05 Um, I considered it as a possibility, Lance, that they would take him.

5:09 But, you know, I I assumed maybe even Cooper Jr.

5:12 at 16.

5:13 Makai Lemon was another possibility.

5:17 They They have Mason Taylor, uh, who I would say was okay last year.

5:24 Um, and but, you know,

5:25 it seemed plausible that would take it they'd take a tight end.

5:29 When I think about it, I find this intriguing for a couple of reasons.

5:34 One is not taking a receiver there,

5:37 but the other is like what the offense is going to look like this year.

5:40 And I understand with the Jets,

5:41 this is really about setting the table for next year, similar to the Browns.

5:45 But, this year is interesting.

5:46 So, you have Geno Smith coming in.

5:48 Frank Reich is the offensive coordinator.

5:51 And Lance Frank Reich is 11 personnel, modified West Coast, spread things out.

5:58 But they drafted uh Sedeeq and I I do actually

6:01 like to see in the immediate aftermath what the GM say

6:04 because it actually is one of the more interesting press

6:06 conferences you'll get is when they talk about their draft picks.

6:10 Right.

6:09 And and the coach and they talked about

6:12 uh Frank's got a great vision for the player

6:14 and how we can use him in 12 personnel uh and use him in multiple ways.

6:20 So, I'm hearing that and I'm thinking, "Wow,

6:22 they might There might be some evolution

6:24 in this Jets offense because it does sound

6:27 like they want to find a way to get both Taylor and Sedeeq on the field."

6:31 Yeah.

6:31 Um well, we all know everyone's going 12 and 13.

6:34 So, I mean that's a given.

6:36 If you didn't know that, just watch the second round of this year's draft.

6:40 god.

6:39 Everyone's going 12 or 13, everybody.

6:42 But what I liked about it is I like that it

6:46 reminds me of my fantasy football drafts where there comes

6:48 a time where you have to decide do I go

6:52 wide receiver here or do I go best tight end here?

6:55 Because the best tight There's only so many the supply side on on fantasy

6:59 football tight ends is obviously much much lower than the wide receiver side.

7:04 And so, I kind of figured out years ago that it's

7:07 just it's more valuable to go with the best tight end

7:10 available if they're special from a production standpoint in fantasy football

7:14 and you can find a a wide receiver down the road.

7:18 Because he's a one of one this year

7:20 in terms of his athletic profile and I think ability

7:23 to become My comp on him was Trey McBride

7:25 and that comp is because that's how I see him,

7:29 a high-volume target who really is unencumbered by first, second, third levels.

7:33 He can work wherever you want him to work.

7:36 And he's super tough, just like Trey McBride.

7:38 And so, I just kind of thought, "Well, this makes great sense.

7:42 I haven't been plugging them into the Jets cuz frankly,

7:45 I usually haven't gone 14 or 15 typically.

7:48 But the Jets made perfect sense because he's a weapon.

7:51 I don't really look at those types of wide tight ends as as tight ends.

7:55 I just call them weapons.

7:56 They're just like slot weapons.

7:58 How many weapons If you didn't see it with Antonio Gates,

8:02 um Travis Kelce, Rob Gronkowski,

8:06 what's the difference between calling him a tight

8:08 end or calling him a wide receiver?

8:09 They're just They're guys who score a lot of touchdowns and give defenses fits.

8:13 And so that's what I thought.

8:15 I just thought, "Good for you.

8:17 You got a one-of-one instead of going with the you know,

8:20 third third wide receiver off the it would have been LeMieux.

8:22 Yeah, I mean, which I think a lot of us

8:24 thought this would be if the Rams didn't take LeMieux,

8:27 this was kind of like the LeMieux destination and then it wasn't.

8:31 Um and he with him I mean, spoiler, I'm going to talk about it when I

8:36 get to Philadelphia because that is a fascinating pick.

8:38 Uh and I swear to God I'm not taking the offers Rogers gives.

8:41 But uh yeah, I I think where I

8:45 find it interesting is everything you said adds up,

8:47 especially with the drop-off at the tight end position

8:49 versus receiver and um and the fact that they were

8:52 able to get Cooper Junior also does also change

8:54 the way you look at the pick in general, right?

8:57 Because they got the next receiver and um the best tight end.

9:01 But I'm I think I'm just interested in seeing like,

9:03 okay, what does Frank Reich got here?

9:07 Yeah.

9:06 Right?

9:06 Like what's he got?

9:07 Cuz you're to your point, this is where the NFL is going.

9:10 This type of versatile positionless player who you can use him to get matchups.

9:16 The best offenses in the NFL are using these types of tight ends,

9:20 trying to get them on linebackers with heavy personnel and all of that.

9:23 Is Reich going to do that?

9:24 I That I think that's what I'm interested in because,

9:27 you know, he um like I said, his last stop it was a lot of it was

9:31 it kind of looked similar to how it has been.

9:34 And I'm interested in seeing cuz that was

9:36 a hire that sort of flew under the radar.

9:38 Kind of what he's got left in the tank.

9:39 And obviously we're going to see what Gino's

9:41 got left if there's any bounce back potential there.

9:43 But um I just think this is the kind of player to your point

9:46 where you you have to find a way to make him a focal point.

9:51 The way they did in Arizona with McBright.

9:54 I also wonder how much of this was how much of this was Darren Mougey Yeah.

9:58 and how much of this was

10:00 It's a great point.

10:00 how much of this was Frank Reich because we don't know how

10:03 long you know first of all we don't know about Aaron Glenn.

10:06 Number two, you just never know how long if

10:08 Aaron Glenn's gone even if Reich Reich were to step

10:11 in in the middle of the year as an interim

10:13 and let's just say Aaron's gone at the end of the year.

10:16 Frank Rock Reich's gone anyway.

10:17 So you're picking for your organization.

10:19 You're not necessarily I think in this particular instance

10:22 maybe on other organizations you're picking for a coach.

10:26 But right now I I'm picking for the Jets.

10:28 I'm not really picking for Reich and I'm and I do worry you know you can't

10:32 make a a left brain head coach a right brain right side of the brain coach.

10:38 I I don't believe.

10:39 You either have it or you don't where you're going

10:40 to be more creative more you're going to conceptualize it um differently.

10:46 And there's a rigidity to Frank Reich that I'm just not I'm kind of with you.

10:49 I can sense it in your voice.

10:51 You're not really necessarily buying into this new new Frank Reich.

10:55 I'm not I'm but I'm not either.

10:57 That doesn't mean it can't work.

11:00 Yeah.

11:00 I don't know that we're going to see anything really creative with Frank Reich.

11:03 Yeah and I and I want to be clear I do like the pick.

11:04 I love the player.

11:05 I think I'm all the teams with multiple picks came out with like

11:09 a lot you know it and I the Jets are no exception.

11:12 The Jet I I actually think it's kind of a fun conversation

11:14 we had it like about if you're I know we're this is

11:18 we're taking a little bit too long to adjust but if

11:20 you're Arch Manning famously of the family that you know picked the [laughter]

11:24 I actually think both the Browns and the Jets did a fantastic

11:28 job in this draft of making a case for themselves for that quarterback.

11:33 And I that'll be fun debate.

11:35 And we can't have it now, but if you're a rookie quarterback,

11:39 who would you rather play for with the Browns or the Jets?

11:41 I don't know.

11:43 It's close now, right?

11:45 Since you said

11:45 It's close.

11:46 You know, the knocks have been ownerships in the past and so you

11:49 have to conceptualize you have to do it that what you'll do with it.

11:53 But the way I kind of looked at this draft for the Jets

11:56 cuz I never expected them to draft a quarterback and I don't you know,

12:00 I don't count later quarterbacks.

12:02 I mean, I'm talking about the guy, face the franchise.

12:05 Club Nick disrespect.

12:06 Yeah, I don't I don't have Club Nick as my face the franchise,

12:08 but I I I likened it to so I've got five kids, right?

12:13 And you're a mom.

12:14 This was feathering the nest to me.

12:16 We're going to get everything in place nice

12:19 and nice and nice and comfortable and just the way

12:22 you like it for the quarterback when you bring

12:23 your new your newborn quarterback into the fold next year.

12:27 That's how I considered this draft.

12:28 So when I looked at the moves they made, I thought, "Ooh,

12:31 I like that for I like that next year for that quarterback.

12:34 Ooh, I like that for Dante Moore.

12:35 Ooh, I like that for Arch.

12:37 Ooh, I like that for, you know, pick your quarterback.

12:40 So I kind of looked at this as let's

12:42 get this ready for the quarterback next year.

12:44 We're not We're not going to worry about what we have right now.

12:47 I mean, and and I I I think every draft is forward thinking,

12:51 but I think specifically that's how I was looking at the Jets.

12:54 I wanted to see if they would feather the nest for the quarterback

12:56 next year and I think they did a really good job.

12:59 I think Mushi did a great job.

13:01 I like that phrase a lot, feathering I'm going to steal that.

13:03 Feathering the nest.

13:04 Okay, you got the Pats.

13:05 Who'd you pick for the Pats?

13:06 I went with um I actually went with I don't want to get you know,

13:10 so I had Lomax or Raredon.

13:12 Let's do let's go Eli Raredon.

13:13 Let me go with tight end.

13:15 Because he's a third round tight end who I

13:17 thought was better than many of the tight ends.

13:20 Well, I I would rather put my chip in on Eli Raredon if I had to you know,

13:26 if I had to say, "Okay, success or not success?" Eli Ricks,

13:29 and I think he's going to be a success.

13:31 I didn't hear as many people get excited about him like I am.

13:34 I When I say excited, it's a relative term, but he's got good size.

13:39 He comes from Notre Dame, so you know he knows how to block.

13:41 Like he's got technique.

13:43 Notre Dame expects their tight ends,

13:45 like you're an extension of the offensive line.

13:47 So, he's a true combination tight end.

13:49 He tested better than I expected.

13:50 So, his athletic testing was was good.

13:53 His speed was good.

13:54 He's got good size.

13:55 He knows how to run block.

13:57 And I'm just thinking,

13:57 how's he the ninth tight end off the board because he can work

14:00 the intermediate areas of the field and um you look at that wide receiving core,

14:06 and you're going to have A.J.

14:07 Brown sometime after June 1st.

14:10 You've got Romeo Doubs now.

14:12 You have Matt Collins and uh Kayshon Boutte.

14:15 So, you you look at who you have and you don't I mean, A.J.

14:18 is a wide receiver one,

14:20 but I'm still kind of curious how he's going to fit in the offense.

14:23 And you have Hunter you have Hunter Henry.

14:26 I think Eli Ricks and is going to be a sneaky

14:29 good pick up for Drake May because every young quarterback,

14:34 I think, benefits from having a safety blanket.

14:37 And I know Hunter Henry had his moments last

14:39 year in the red zone where Drake really found him.

14:42 I think Eli Ricks and is going to end up being a better tight end than

14:45 a lot of tight ends drafted ahead of him

14:47 because he is a true combination tight end.

14:49 And everyone's leaning into the wide tight end and heavier tight ends.

14:52 But he can do that.

14:54 But I think he's going to be a better pass

14:55 catcher than some of the tight ends drafted ahead of him.

14:57 I was just looking at his height and weight cuz

15:00 I was trying to remember cuz he's quite large and yeah,

15:02 6'6" measured 6'6" at the combine, 245.

15:06 Could as Ben likes to say,

15:08 potentially mass up a little bit, but this was an interesting pick.

15:12 I agree like I when they so, you know, Lo Mu not super surprising, right tackle.

15:16 I think we all figured they'd go right tackle or edge.

15:19 Well, well, here's the The part.

15:20 Look for him at the left side.

15:23 Oh, boy.

15:24 Yeah, I would expect him on the left side,

15:26 which opens up a different conversation about Will

15:28 Campbell as guard or Will Campbell as right tackle.

15:30 Immediately or in the future?

15:31 I don't I don't think I don't think immediately,

15:34 but I think the I think the future plans may end up being Lomax at left tackle.

15:38 Lomax is one of the only natural left tackles in the whole draft.

15:41 I mean, it was him and Caiden Proctor and Monroe Freeling.

15:46 And then you have Okay, well,

15:47 everyone just everyone just assumes Blake Miller could roll

15:50 over there to the left side, maybe maybe not.

15:52 Um Austin Barber.

15:55 I mean, there's there's other guys in the draft like there

15:57 weren't many true left tackles and Lomax is one of them.

16:00 And I I will be shocked.

16:01 This is a separate New England conversation,

16:04 but I'll be shocked if by 2027 Lomax

16:08 is not the starting left tackle and then Will

16:10 Campbell is on the right side and plays

16:11 a Morgan Moses or even bumped inside the guard.

16:14 So, something to keep an eye on.

16:16 Although, they did draft Crownover from Texas A&M,

16:18 who's a natural right tackle as well.

16:20 So, their entire draft was kind of intriguing to me.

16:24 Yeah, that That's interesting.

16:25 So, for those who don't know, Fano kicked over to the right because of Lomax.

16:31 I I didn't think he was going to I I had

16:34 him I kept giving him to like very zone heavy offenses.

16:39 Yeah.

16:38 And I like him a lot, but yeah,

16:41 I don't that's that's going to be an interesting storyline to watch.

16:43 They also took Gabe Jacas, the edge out of Illinois,

16:46 who He plays He plays like he's got meat cleavers attached to his arms.

16:53 He's just a physical bruising, you know,

16:55 maybe not the highest upside as a pass rusher,

16:58 but will set mean edge and I like that pick, too.

17:02 But, the Raerdon one is interesting because where I think there's

17:05 It's interesting you and I both went to tight ends, right?

17:08 Cuz it does feel like the league really is going in this direction.

17:12 And I think if he can become a plus blocker and he has the frame to do it,

17:18 that completely changes the complexion of the Patriots.

17:20 get bigger.

17:20 You mentioned 245 like 255 at that at that with that frame like 6'6,

17:27 I don't even think 260 is He may get a little bit

17:30 of a redshirt year this year cuz I expect Lomax to get a redshirt year.

17:34 You ask if it was immediate.

17:35 Lomax is not ready yet.

17:37 Lomax needs more time.

17:38 He's not a very gritty run blocker.

17:40 I think he needs to I think he needs to be more of a glass eater on the field.

17:43 They got to really try to try to get him

17:46 to add to to to really level up the aggression.

17:49 The pass pro, he's got a lot of pass pro potential, a lot,

17:52 and that's why he's so valuable because he can protect like that.

17:56 So, I just I don't see that kind of player on the right side.

17:59 I just I see that kind of player on the left side.

18:02 All right, I'm going Miami and I'm going to go way off the board here.

18:06 Um you and I talked about our affinity for Chris Johnson.

18:11 We also spoke on the phone about Jacob Rodriguez

18:14 who they took who It's interesting too that cuz they

18:17 have like a lot of linebackers now and I would

18:19 actually think look at them as a potential trade partner.

18:22 Um I'm not going to or and Caeden Proctor

18:25 who that one actually surprised me a little bit,

18:26 but I'm not going to talk about him.

18:29 I want to talk about Chris Bell who they took in the Oh, interesting.

18:33 I thought you were going to go to Kyle Lewis.

18:35 They I kind of loved this draft.

18:38 I don't know how I feel about this draft for them.

18:41 Proctor we'll see.

18:42 That was it's crazy cuz I loved every pick except for the first pick I was like,

18:46 I don't know, you know.

18:47 But yeah, it's Lewis.

18:49 I mean they they kind of drafted all

18:50 of your draft favorite draft analyst favorite players.

18:53 I feel like that's how I would characterize this.

18:55 And Chris Bell's one who I didn't talk about for some reason like I guess

18:58 they just didn't have time to get to him when I talked about the receivers,

19:00 but he is a fascinating player.

19:02 So, first of all, he's intriguing because they don't have receivers, right?

19:06 I mean I'm just pulling up the depth chart right now.

19:08 With the Waddle gone, it's Malik Washington,

19:11 Jaylen Tolbert, Tyquan Thornton, Caleb Douglas.

19:13 So, there has never been more of an opportunity for a receiver

19:17 coming into the league than there is for the Miami Dolphins right now.

19:20 He is coming off of a torn ACL.

19:23 They said, I saw after the draft,

19:25 they think he's going to be ready at the beginning of the season.

19:27 We'll see.

19:29 But, he kind of like on paper has it all.

19:34 I like he's 6'2 He is 6'2 and he looks bigger.

19:38 He is just

19:40 He looks way bigger than that.

19:41 Yeah, like he is very strong and he's not a speedster,

19:47 but he has great build-up speed and is just a problem

19:53 in the open field because of the combination with the weight.

19:57 Very productive at Louisville and although in his sort of limited route tree,

20:02 but I just think like he is a guy you look at and you think,

20:06 man, if this hits, you could be an A.J.

20:12 Brown type.

20:13 I'm not saying I'm not copying him to A.J.

20:14 Brown.

20:15 However, it might not hit.

20:17 So, I just think it's interesting cuz the the variance is very high,

20:21 but the opportunity will be there for him.

20:24 I I loved it for the same reasons you're talking about because you got So,

20:28 had he stayed healthy,

20:29 this was going to be the guy who really rose in the draft process.

20:32 Chris Bell was going to be the one who

20:35 was going to be like Chris Johnson where Yeah,

20:38 you know, a lot of film watches like, yeah, I like him.

20:41 I like him.

20:41 He's good.

20:42 And then you don't hear his name up there

20:44 really high and so you just think to yourself,

20:46 maybe I'm a little higher on Like I was that way with Chris Johnson like,

20:49 uh-uh, maybe I'm higher than others on Chris Johnson.

20:52 So, I'll kind of tuck him away a little

20:53 bit and just kind of see where the conversation goes,

20:56 see how he runs, see him at Senior Bowl.

20:58 And then he ran really fast.

21:00 Senior Bowl was pretty good.

21:01 His combine was great.

21:04 And he shot up.

21:05 Chris Bell, he is rugged.

21:08 And he is he will get after you as a blocker.

21:10 When he's when he's got a little anger and I I don't remember the game,

21:14 but there was somebody who must have pissed him off because he just was wrecking

21:17 this cornerback multiple times and I just thought

21:21 who made him mad because because he's big.

21:23 Like he's a he's a big guy and he's he he feels bigger than he even measures,

21:28 to be honest with you.

21:29 But I think he would have been fighting Denzel

21:31 Boston for that next wide receiver up at least

21:36 this number six wide receiver and maybe even higher

21:39 than that if he had stayed healthy the whole process.

21:42 So, when you're drafting a player like that in the third round,

21:45 yeah, you even if you have to redshirt him,

21:47 gray shirt him, whatever you want to call it this year,

21:49 you're going to redshirt him for this year.

21:50 That's fine because the guy that you're going to get,

21:53 you'll still have three years with them and that's plenty of time

21:56 for him to prove what kind of wide receiver he is,

21:59 but I don't know I don't know about you, Mena.

22:01 I mean the the so the Jamarco McCoy knee

22:05 stuff is not just an issue from from oh,

22:08 the ACL recovery, the the ACL surgery didn't go as planned.

22:11 That's not really what that is.

22:13 Most ACL recoveries,

22:14 true ACL recoveries are pretty fast nowadays and they stick.

22:18 So, I mean, he was hurt in December.

22:21 I'm like, yeah, I mean, September, October, spent half the year on the pup list.

22:26 I do expect him to play this year.

22:28 I don't know if it's I'd be surprised if he starts the season

22:32 ready to go just because there's so many mental things and reps

22:35 he needs on the field that I don't see him getting

22:37 in the summer and he may even be late into camp to get it.

22:41 The other thing I'll add is and one of the primary reason I really hope we see

22:44 him earlier than not is um I think he's

22:48 a good match with Malik Willis who you know, is playing quarterback.

22:51 I don't know who the hell else Malik will be throwing to in that offense.

22:55 Uh but you know, when you think about

22:57 the things that Malik flashed at Green Bay,

23:00 his willingness to throw the 50-50 ball,

23:03 the aggression pushing the ball downfield.

23:05 I think about um you know,

23:07 some of the stuff Chris Bell can do outside the numbers.

23:10 It is a good match between quarterback and player,

23:12 but the player has to be available.

23:13 So, I'm intrigued by it.

23:17 Um All right, so that's the other AFC you've

23:20 seen the Buffalo Bills we talked about on Monday.

23:23 We're going to move to the AFC South and I gave you uh I gave you Jacksonville.

23:27 So, let's Mhm.

23:29 I will say I'm not a Jaylen Husky fan.

23:32 So, I don't I don't know who was the Jaylen Husky fan.

23:34 Lenny and Shambles.

23:35 He just liked that he had Husky as his last name.

23:37 That's why.

23:37 Yeah, I I I love the last name, but I just thought, you know,

23:41 based on I went looked him up and I was like,

23:44 I'm not as high on Jaylen Husky this draft.

23:47 So, here's what intrigues me.

23:49 We're going to start with Nate Burketter because it kicks

23:52 off an entire conversation about the aggression of James Gladstone.

23:58 And what intrigues me is the James Gladstone back-to-back drafts.

24:03 So, Nate Burketter, I watched him I still I said this on the the broadcast.

24:08 I still remember where I was when I

24:10 watched Nate Burketter because I was so excited like,

24:12 oh my gosh, this guy can really block.

24:15 You know, um he was a really good blocker.

24:19 He's tough.

24:19 If you go look at his game against Reuben Bain,

24:21 I mean he he was in some fist fights with Reuben Bain and it's rare

24:25 for any tight ends to be able to hold up for any amount of time against Bain.

24:30 And he was in there scrapping.

24:32 I remember texting Matt Rhule about him a little

24:34 bit because Matt Rhule had him at Nebraska.

24:37 Um and I know Nebraska really wanted to keep him and they

24:40 they didn't keep him because he's just a really tough guy.

24:43 And then when I was watching his his So,

24:46 first I watched his run blocking, then I watched his pass catching.

24:48 So, I started off with drops.

24:49 I don't think there were there were none.

24:51 So, I couldn't there were no drops to watch.

24:53 Then I watched contested catches.

24:55 So, I watched all of his contested catches.

24:57 And then I watch all of his targets.

24:58 Well, I watch touchdowns and then I watch all of his targets.

25:01 So, I saw the touchdown against Notre Dame.

25:03 I'm like, "Wow, I forgot I didn't know him."

25:06 In week two when they beat when A&M beat Notre Dame,

25:09 I said, "Oh, that's the guy that made the play

25:11 at the end of the game to to beat Notre Dame.

25:15 He's the tight end who they singled up

25:17 and they decided to throw to a tight end it

25:20 who by the way was not thrown to a whole

25:22 lot last year's pass receiving production is not big.

25:25 So, I was really excited.

25:27 I'm like, "This guy's a steal in the fourth round.

25:29 He's going to be really good.

25:30 He's a better athlete than people give him credit for.

25:32 He's going to be a better pass catcher and he's

25:35 a good blocker." His marketing guy tells me, "Lance,

25:39 he's going to be the third tight end off the board." I said,

25:41 "Dusty." So, we have a bet.

25:43 I now owe him.

25:44 I thought Sam LaPorta should go ahead of him.

25:45 So, Dusty was right.

25:46 So, I I have to buy Dusty whatever dinner.

25:48 I think we're getting hand rolls or steak or I don't know.

25:50 We'll see.

25:51 But, he goes third.

25:53 [clears throat] Dusty ends up being right.

25:54 He goes third to Jacksonville.

25:55 And I So, I comment on every pick as they go

26:00 in with Bucky Brooks and Mike Yam on on NFL Network.

26:03 And uh I I I love Nate Burleson the player.

26:06 That was a little bit early.

26:08 Little did I know it was going to signal this incredible

26:11 run on tight ends and everyone's strategy to go 13 tight ends.

26:15 The jig was up because I "We've all got to move up

26:18 and push our ratings forward on on tight ends." And that's what they did.

26:22 But, when you look at what James I'm looking at James Gladstone,

26:25 you know, so he came over from Snead and Sean McVay.

26:30 And the way they do things is they got their own way.

26:32 They have like these 16-word scouting reports.

26:35 Brad Holmes uses it also in Detroit.

26:37 Uh they use it with the Rams in Jacksonville.

26:40 So, there's similarities in those three buildings

26:42 because obviously the home base is the Rams

26:45 and then Brad Holmes has the Lions and he's going to do some things similar.

26:49 Gladstone has the Jaguars.

26:51 So, there's going to be some similarities.

26:52 There's I think it was like 16 words James Gladstone told me it's

26:56 basically a tweet is what your scouting report is when you turn it in.

26:59 And there's a very specific reason for that.

27:01 He doesn't want it to be He wants you to really drill down on who a player is.

27:05 So, right off the bat I know that he's

27:07 he's different and their style is going to be different.

27:10 So, last year when he makes the Travis Hunter trade, I'm like, "Whoa.

27:13 We're swinging for the fences with Travis

27:16 Hunter and that's that's aggressive, you know?

27:19 I kind of I admire it.

27:21 I'm not going to say I like it.

27:22 I didn't really have an opinion like or dislike.

27:24 I just thought, "Wow.

27:25 First draft, you're really making an aggressive

27:28 move." Then in this draft, he goes,

27:30 "I don't care what you guys think." And he even was kind

27:33 of defiant in his postgame press

27:35 conference like you post draft press conference.

27:37 Like you said, they have some great unfiltered stuff right after the draft.

27:42 And or even after the first or first round or after day two.

27:47 But he went with, you know, he's basically said,

27:51 "We're going to do things our way." You know,

27:53 they're leveraging AI in their building.

27:54 They're they're doing things in the way that they believe.

27:57 And I think they're trying to think beyond the consensus.

28:00 They're trying to beat the consensus.

28:02 So, this is going to be a very interesting watch for me.

28:07 Jaylen Husky went way earlier than I would have guessed.

28:11 Um I think than a lot of people would have thought.

28:13 And you had Nate Burkey sure going way earlier.

28:16 They drafted a couple guys on the back end

28:18 that I didn't even have scouting reports for, which doesn't matter.

28:21 It doesn't mean I'm going to be right on Husky um at all.

28:24 I'm I'm wrong plenty of times.

28:25 But what he's done is he's basically bucked

28:27 the trend of what people think he should be doing.

28:30 And what that does, it opens you up for great victory or a great defeat.

28:34 And so, you're going to have people, I think, Mina,

28:37 really looking at him and judging and saying,

28:40 "Why aren't you doing what everyone else is doing?

28:42 Why are you stepping out?" You understand what I'm saying?

28:44 He's putting himself on the line.

28:46 When you go off consensus like that and you're not an a long tenure GM

28:52 or you know what I mean or or someone

28:54 who's already [snorts] had success in the league,

28:57 it can definitely it puts your you're putting your secret out a little bit.

29:02 Um I think like the Bergeron pick, I was shocked.

29:06 Uh I think most people too.

29:08 It was pick 56, so that's an important they weren't picking until

29:11 not just Stephen the second round but lateish in the second round.

29:15 Uh which so it's not like, you know,

29:17 there were obvious immediate contributors on the board.

29:21 This is a team that was also pretty stacked, I have to say.

29:23 Like when I stacked is maybe the wrong word

29:25 but I they didn't have like super glaring needs to me.

29:29 So if there was a team that might go a little bit off,

29:33 they were someone I had trouble figuring out what they would do in the draft.

29:37 Um I'm not going to lie.

29:39 I would have liked Anthony Hill uh who

29:42 went I don't think that long after that, right?

29:44 Like one two three four five six picks later.

29:46 Um to the Titans and that's a player

29:49 I think they could have really used personally.

29:52 But I think to your point, this is a team that like the rest of the league,

29:56 clearly blocking tight ends is something that a lot of teams coveted.

30:00 They have Brenton Strange who's a very good player but I think,

30:03 you know, they the run game really struggled last year without him.

30:07 So it's not surprising to me necessarily that this is the direction

30:10 that they went in but it was undoubtedly a surprising pick.

30:14 So Just put that out there.

30:17 Intriguing.

30:16 Intriguing, yeah.

30:17 Intriguing, yeah.

30:18 Um okay, I have Indianapolis, another team that didn't pick in the first round.

30:22 Uh and I'm going to pick a player that I just really liked watching

30:25 and I'm excited to see how he fits into Luanne Rumo's defense and that's A.J.

30:29 Halsey, the safety out of LSU.

30:31 Um so they went defense back-to-back.

30:33 Uh first two picks they had C.J.

30:34 Allen.

30:35 Um obvious that was a pretty like, okay, need player, makes sense, we we get it.

30:40 Uh Halsey's he's a fun one.

30:43 Um Really fun.

30:45 He So I you know, I watched a lot of LSU.

30:48 Just watching Delaine in particular.

30:50 I wasn't even intending to watch Halsey.

30:51 I was focused on Delaine.

30:53 And there were always just two or three times a game where he

30:58 just impacted the game in a real like he just is he's a playmaker.

31:02 Um he has high highs.

31:05 I That's how I would put it.

31:07 Uh he's got He's very aggressive.

31:10 Sometimes that gets him in trouble and he's going

31:12 to have to work on that, but he is

31:14 rangy and athletic and I think an interesting fit

31:17 for this defense because you have Cam Bynum back there.

31:21 You have Ward Gardner.

31:21 We'll see what happens with Kenny Moore.

31:23 I think So right now Wan'Dale Robinson is the other safety.

31:26 So there is a path for him to play quickly.

31:30 I'm interested in seeing how Anarumo leans into his versatility.

31:35 He's got a really good track record with safeties.

31:38 Um and I I think I wouldn't be surprised if even

31:43 though he wasn't taken until it was the third round, right?

31:45 Third round, he ends up being a starter pretty quickly.

31:50 100% 100%.

31:52 His tape is so much fun because he's so instinctive.

31:54 You can see very frequently he's getting the jump.

31:59 So he So there's with safeties you like to see safeties who

32:03 will play the quarterback instead of just the wide receiver the routes.

32:06 I mean, you want to have eye balance.

32:07 He's always aware of the routes, but he's playing the quarterback.

32:10 So if you give a ball pat, he's already starting to he he if you got tells,

32:15 if you're a quarterback like at a poker table and he sees a hitch

32:19 or he sees your eyes start staring too

32:22 long and you're not give going through progressions,

32:25 he just instinctively starts to jump and he's going to he

32:30 knows where you're going and he's going to beat you there.

32:33 And there's a reason he had high takeover totals.

32:35 Man, like I think it's I think it's eight interceptions and 26

32:41 pass defenses or 20 pass defenses over the last 2 years.

32:45 It's like really impressive ball no ball production.

32:49 And it's because of his instincts and that's

32:51 that's either something you have or you don't have.

32:53 I I don't really think instincts can be developed.

32:55 But he's got ball skills to take it away.

32:56 He's got great instincts.

32:58 Like you mentioned, the underrated facet is he'll get

33:00 downhill and run through you and he's he's thickly built.

33:03 He's under 6 ft.

33:05 He's very compact, but he is a slugger.

33:08 Um I I do want to see how Ballard does on this because, you know,

33:12 Nick Cross was not a hit and Malik Hooker, who I loved,

33:16 just had too many injuries and he wasn't a hit.

33:19 Ballard needs to get this right with this safety and I happen to be a big fan.

33:23 I thought AJ Halsey, to me, is a second-round pick.

33:27 Mhm.

33:26 So to get him where they got him in the third round,

33:28 I think they benefited from that that big tight end run because because there

33:33 wasn't wide receiver there wasn't running backs

33:35 in this year's draft uh other than two,

33:37 really, and there there this wasn't a great quarterback draft.

33:40 So, you know, you had tight ends jumping up and then for Halsey

33:43 to be there in the third and for them to take him, I loved it.

33:46 It's one of my favorite picks of the third round.

33:48 Yeah, but Clark going over be- before him was a little bit surprising.

33:53 Um okay, Houston, hometown team, give to you.

33:56 Yeah, so I'm going to say Marlon Clark and I'm

33:59 going to go in a couple directions with this.

34:01 Marlon Clark is doesn't doesn't stop.

34:04 German-born tight end.

34:05 I know, I hate to do this, but I'm going to I'm going

34:07 to go in a different direction because I could go with some other players.

34:10 I mean, if you wanted, I could talk about Kaelan Rutledge.

34:13 Let me Let me just as as as 1B and then I'll go up to 1A.

34:17 For the first time the Houston Texans, in my opinion,

34:20 this offseason, finally are figuring out an identity on offense.

34:24 It was very easy for DeMeco Ryans to figure out

34:26 his identity and what it was supposed to look like on defense,

34:30 but on offense, it's been just mismatched parts.

34:33 And they don't they haven't they they got rid

34:35 of one coordinator after 2 years and then Nick Caserio,

34:37 people felt like he was on the the rocks.

34:40 So, CJ Stroud's been up and down and it's like just just

34:45 an amalgamation of just players that didn't

34:48 have any flow or continuity or cohesion.

34:51 And then they went and got Braden Smith.

34:53 And they got Wyatt Teller.

34:55 They got ass kickers is what they got.

34:57 And very good run blockers.

34:59 And then they got David Montgomery, who's a hammerhead.

35:01 And then you went and got probably the toughest offensive lineman in the draft.

35:05 So, I like the way that Nick Caserio said, "No, this is who we're going to be.

35:09 And I'm going to start with free agency and then we're going to go to the draft.

35:12 And not just first pick,

35:13 but also the second pick are big-time trench picks and I loved it.

35:18 I thought they were great.

35:20 However, I am a little concerned about

35:24 the Marlin Klein pick and I'll tell you why.

35:26 Um I know he's a little late to the game and I even said in my scouting report,

35:31 "You know, whatever you see on tape is is is incomplete.

35:34 He's still learning the game." I think Marlin

35:35 Klein can end up being a pretty good player.

35:38 He does have some Y ability.

35:40 He's got some combo tight end ability.

35:42 And um I know there were a couple teams who like him more than me.

35:45 I thought he's typically a fourth and in some old-school drafts,

35:49 more of a fifth, but nowadays, probably more of a fourth.

35:52 But he's an ascending player.

35:54 It's just how long is it going to take?

35:55 But when you look at tight ends,

35:57 so Nick Caserio has done a bang-up job on the secondary.

36:01 His secondary picks outrageously good.

36:04 And I'm sure with some help from DeMeco Ryans, obviously.

36:07 And they work in conjunction on on all this stuff.

36:11 I want to talk about his tight end selections

36:13 because this is going to be fascinating to watch.

36:16 So, when he first came in, he drafted Brevin Jordan in the fifth round.

36:19 He flashes here and there.

36:21 Not a major win.

36:22 He was a fifth-round pick.

36:23 Teagan Quitoriano was a fifth-round pick in 2022.

36:27 Kind of a wide true wide.

36:28 They wanted a run blocker.

36:30 He was injured, never really ended up doing anything for him.

36:34 2024, Cade Stover has battled injuries, hasn't really done anything.

36:38 Now, those are three Nick picks.

36:40 Didn't he go to his uh last year in New England?

36:44 They had two two tight end picks.

36:47 Devin Asiasi, who was a third-round pick, Yeah.

36:50 got a grand total of seven targets in 2

36:52 years at New England before getting four targets in Cincinnati.

36:56 He was out of the league in 3 years.

36:58 Dalton Keene, third-round pick tight end

37:01 Nick's last draft along with Bel- Belichick.

37:03 And he he played a grand total of 148

37:07 snaps in in in offensive snaps in football.

37:11 He had what?

37:12 1 year in New England.

37:14 And then he had 2023 was his last year of football in Houston.

37:18 Nick brought him over.

37:19 So, I mean, you can go to 2010,

37:22 Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, great draft, obviously.

37:25 But so I'm I'm curious to see how Nick's going to do

37:27 on this tight end pick because I'd say the the track record,

37:31 I always keep track of general managers and their track records

37:34 for certain positions because certain GMs are like because if they're really

37:39 good and they end up picking up a player that I didn't

37:42 have a very good rating on, I always immediately question myself like,

37:45 "Ooh, I need to see if I missed this because somebody I really respect

37:49 who drafts this position." Like Les Snead in the middle rounds, forget about it.

37:54 Les kills the middle rounds.

37:56 So, I'm curious.

37:57 I'm intrigued to see how this tight end

38:01 does for the Texans because it is a need.

38:03 It is a need for them.

38:04 This was another surprising tight end pick.

38:07 I was I didn't think that I'm looking at the order of the tight ends now.

38:10 I didn't think he would go before or Roush, and he did.

38:14 Um so, you're a little bit sticking your neck out,

38:17 you know, if you're Houston with that selection.

38:20 Um yeah, I but I like what you said earlier about

38:23 the emphasis on physicality in the trenches with the first two picks.

38:27 Um, you know, the McDonald pick I loved and I you know,

38:30 I think to get him where they got him was

38:32 tremendous value and not many areas of need on that defense,

38:35 but that's going to help in a big way.

38:36 So Remember they traded up.

38:38 So another good Look, this is not I'm not attacking Nick.

38:41 I'm saying Nick did a I thought a brilliant job with

38:43 we're not completely You were picking picks that intrigued us and it

38:45 it is that you I think you make a great point.

38:47 It is that was definitely one of the ones that I was like, "Oh,

38:49 okay." Like I definitely didn't think you would go

38:52 for Clark who went not long after that, I believe.

38:54 even realize I'm looking at all these tight ends.

38:56 I'm like I kind of subconsciously I had no idea I'm listing a bunch

39:00 of tight ends from this draft as intriguing

39:02 picks because they were just that shocking.

39:04 I promise I have Oh my god, I have one

39:07 Tennessee next.

39:07 You're going to get to after I do Tennessee.

39:09 So that you will not pick a tight end cuz they didn't draft a tight end.

39:12 Uh, okay.

39:12 So Tennessee, look, the Titans I I just want to talk about Carnell

39:16 Tate here because I haven't talked about him and we talked about surprises.

39:21 I was shocked.

39:22 Uh, maybe shocked is too strong because early in the process

39:26 I talked about this possibility because of the need,

39:29 the importance of helping young quarterback.

39:32 That I thought he was the best receiver in the draft.

39:34 I thought he had the high and a high floor that would be valued I would

39:38 say the the Titans would put a premium

39:40 on given the importance that of helping Treylon Burks.

39:45 But then I got away from it because literally

39:47 the entire world was like they aren't taking Carnell Tate.

39:49 They're taking First it was Jeremiah Love,

39:52 then it was Sonny Styles, maybe Ar'vell Reese.

39:55 So I when this happened, I was I gasped.

39:59 I [laughter] was watching with Dad and I broke

40:00 the news to the to the room and everybody was surprised.

40:03 Um, but the surprise I I want to say

40:05 is more about just the lack of smoke, frankly,

40:08 and the Titans I think did a pretty damn good job of hiding this uh,

40:12 from insiders and reporters and all of that.

40:15 Um, so as far as the pick goes to, look,

40:18 I understand some of the skepticism about Tate's

40:25 Mhm.

40:23 upside and is he a true like top is he going to be a top

40:28 10-15 receiver in this league because that's what

40:29 you want when you draft a player there.

40:31 I don't know.

40:32 But I I will say if I'm a Titans fan, I am a lot happier today that they

40:38 did something I to help their young receiver after

40:41 this off season which I did not love

40:43 the way they approached free agency at the position.

40:46 Um, and I think this receiver in particular

40:49 is going to be immediately impactful in this offense.

40:53 So now you're looking at a group Tate, Wan'Dale Robinson,

40:56 thank god is no longer the wide receiver one, Calvin Ridley.

40:59 Uh, they fit together decently well.

41:01 Robinson's a real volume eater, you know,

41:03 he works underneath, gets you yards after the catch.

41:06 But Tate we we know what he's being brought in to do which is big plays, right?

41:10 Like I was just looking at um, the top teams in explosive pass differential,

41:16 so how many they had versus how many were on them,

41:19 and it's all the best teams in the NFL.

41:21 The you know, the Rams, the Seahawks, the Bills,

41:23 the Pats, the Packers, and then the Titans were 30th.

41:26 Uh, Cam Ward on 20-yard throws was actually eighth

41:32 in precision pass rate which is the true media stat,

41:35 is it hitting the receiver in stride?

41:37 And this and on 20-yard throws, the Titans were 26th in drop rate.

41:43 We know he can throw the ball deep.

41:45 But they did not have someone I trusted and now they do

41:48 because if one there's one thing Cornell Tate is going to do,

41:51 he's going to catch 20-yard throw.

41:53 He's going to catch it perfectly and he's not going to drop it.

41:55 So, you tell me what you think about the pick.

41:58 I want to hear if you were surprised,

41:59 but I just want to start there like this is the best I I

42:02 genuinely believe this is the best thing they could have done for Cam Ward.

42:05 Well, I didn't hate it at all.

42:06 I was I surprised?

42:07 Yeah, I was surprised.

42:10 [sighs]

42:09 Mock one and even mock two, I considered Carnel Tate at four.

42:16 And the reason was simple.

42:17 Now, number one, I liked him a lot on tape.

42:19 Um number two, obviously, the wide receiver quarterback connection.

42:24 You got to You have to find somebody.

42:27 And then, um you know, I didn't have Styles To this day,

42:31 I don't have Styles doesn't have as high a grade for me as Carnel Tate.

42:35 And I think I think the reason's simple here and why I like this pick for them,

42:38 why I don't have a problem with it.

42:40 You could have gone in a variety of directions.

42:42 But how do you go wrong when Ohio State wide receivers, right?

42:46 Just working backwards.

42:48 Emeka early picks, Emeka Egbuka.

42:51 Um Marvin Harrison Jr., you know, still need to see more from him.

42:56 But you've got uh Jaxon Smith-Njigba.

42:59 And I'm literally going year by year.

43:01 Like every year, they're cranking somebody out.

43:03 Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson.

43:05 Um Then you have to go back.

43:09 Well, that was That's primarily the the biggest run that they had.

43:12 You have to go Then you go to Paris Campbell, which was another hit,

43:15 but Yeah, I mean, it's a it's an embarrassment of riches.

43:18 And what you see coming out of there

43:21 is really well-schooled wide receivers who run routes well,

43:27 who are consistent with their their um ball skills.

43:31 They've all got good ball skills cuz I think that's who they recruit.

43:34 I think they have a good feel for It's not just development.

43:37 They're already getting guys out of high

43:39 school who they recognize, these are Buckeyes.

43:41 This is what Buckeyes look like.

43:43 And so, everyone who's coming out, good route runner,

43:46 great when the ball's in the air,

43:48 they're really good at winning the catch space,

43:50 making contested catches, having finding ways to get past defenders,

43:54 whether it's off press or, you know,

43:56 with double moves, whatever the case may be.

43:59 And so, Carnel Tate, while I don't think he's a wide receiver one in the league,

44:02 I think he's a hell of a wide receiver two.

44:05 And I think he's going to I know he's going to be a a really

44:10 impactful player early on because it's someone who Cam Ward is going to trust.

44:14 He needs someone he can trust.

44:15 You talk about those drops,

44:17 you get trust issues between your quarterback

44:19 and your wide receivers and you're cooked.

44:21 And so, this is somebody who really doesn't drop the ball.

44:24 And even when he's covered, he makes plays when the ball's in the air.

44:27 So, I I totally understand why they made this this pick

44:31 and I don't have a problem with it at all.

44:34 All right.

44:34 I think I'm going to guess who you're going to pick for Washington.

44:37 So, where is where where Oh, so sorry.

44:38 So, talked about the Giants at length on Monday.

44:42 They were one of my winners in the draft.

44:45 Um you can pick it.

44:46 I bet you do, actually.

44:48 Uh okay, sorry.

44:49 I just scrolled back up.

44:50 Are you going to go I think you're

44:53 going to go either Antonio Williams or Keaton Allen.

44:57 Antonio Williams.

44:57 Antonio Williams.

44:58 Okay.

44:58 So, Washington took Sunny Styles, not very surprising,

45:02 obvious how he's going to be used, makes a ton of sense.

45:05 Uh but their third-round draft pick, as they didn't have a second,

45:07 was Antonio Williams, the wide receiver out of Clemson.

45:10 Why are you intrigued by him?

45:11 Run pass catch.

45:12 So, I like the fact that Let me start by their new offensive coordinator,

45:17 David Blough, who is a former quarterback.

45:20 So, he's taking over.

45:21 They want to go to more under center looks.

45:23 It's one of the things they want to do.

45:25 When you're under center,

45:26 it gives you a chance to run a more effective uh jet sweep package.

45:30 It gives you a better chance to run some play action stuff

45:32 because your mesh point takes longer to develop and outside zone runs.

45:36 And so, linebackers have longer time to flow and they typically will start

45:41 to overflow if you if you can run it and you can sell it.

45:44 Um Antonio Williams,

45:45 so he has a great potential to be a a really fun gadget guy.

45:50 He's four for four with two touchdown passes in his career over there.

45:55 He has real running back vision when the ball is in his hands,

46:00 whether it's on design run plays or it's catch run after catch,

46:04 which he does plenty of run after catch.

46:06 When he's in the open field, he sees the field like a running back.

46:10 And then I I think the I think the route running you know,

46:14 that part of it like he's such an excitable player

46:16 that he doesn't really tempo his routes as well as he should.

46:19 And that would be something they work on to maybe

46:22 alter tempo cuz he plays fast all the time,

46:24 but changing speeds, altering tempos, you know,

46:27 throwing some off-speed pitches every once

46:28 in a while really sets up the fastball.

46:30 So, that's what he's going to have to learn to do.

46:33 But, we're getting to a point, Mina,

46:35 in the league where it's so impactful when you have somebody you can just

46:39 throw to real quick and they can go get a first down for you.

46:44 And he's got he's got a lot of that.

46:46 He can do it on the ground.

46:47 He's got the gadget throwing stuff.

46:49 And he's only thrown four passes, but it's it's worth mentioning.

46:52 He has been a punt returner,

46:54 but I like the fact that you can just get him the ball and on third and five,

46:58 you may make a little 2-yard hitch and he turns it into a first down.

47:01 And like there's just so much value

47:04 in extending and having a a drive extender underneath.

47:09 Bucky Brooks you would always tell me you want to have

47:11 a team full of basketball players with different positions, different traits.

47:15 Yeah.

47:15 Yeah.

47:15 And I love that idea.

47:16 I love that idea that you can have I was thinking

47:18 of Malik Washington also when you talked about Malik Willis with Chris Bell,

47:23 how Malik Washington gives you totally different looks underneath than

47:27 what Chris Bell is going to give you when he's healthy.

47:29 And I think that's very impactful.

47:31 When the Texans were really good or when C.J.

47:33 Stroud was at his best, he had Nico Collins with a lot of the you know,

47:37 intermediate and deep routes and then you had

47:39 Tank Dell was a jitterbug underneath that was like, you know, just get open.

47:45 Feels like they never really recovered from losing Tank Dell.

47:48 No, the offense really hasn't.

47:49 Tank Dell, pardon me.

47:50 Um yeah, no, I love your points about Williams.

47:52 I also love his fit with McLaurin and I and I like

47:55 his fit I love his fit also with um Jayden Daniels because

47:59 Daniels it's so funny cuz you know we think of him he's

48:01 so athletic you know push ball down field he likes throwing the go

48:03 balls he's like a slot fade king but he will play small

48:07 ball and I think that's one of the things that made him

48:10 so successful in the NFL immediately is his intelligence and efficiency

48:15 as a quarterback and his willing to just get get to the right

48:17 answer right away and also he is perfectly happy to take

48:21 those eight yards on first down and I so I think having

48:24 an underneath option who's got a little bit of twitch get yards

48:27 after the catch makes a ton of sense so I liked this pick

48:30 as well also it was a very thin recei- thin receiver group

48:33 behind Terry McLaurin they needed a receiver so to me this was

48:37 good value um all right I that's let's do Makai Lemon here

48:42 for the Eagles um I mean you know like they took Y U

48:46 Bennard the the crazy athletic guy out of Nigeria that's really interesting

48:52 Stowers Stowers the tight end out of Vanderbilt who's really more like

48:56 a big slot is a fascinating player but Lemon to me is just

49:02 I think one of the more interesting draft picks in the the entire

49:08 first round the fact that they moved up ahead of Pittsburgh

49:12 for him and then thinking about what he means for the evolution

49:16 of this offense right um this was not I don't think folks

49:22 thought about Lemon for Philadelphia because his skill set which is working

49:29 over the middle of the field working in from the slot didn't

49:34 it felt like a mismatch with the quarterback but the Eagles everything

49:37 the Eagles have done this off season suggests that this offense is

49:41 going in a different direction and the quarterback's got to get on board

49:45 right it's funny cuz Sean Mannion's the new offensive coordinator and we

49:49 were talking about all the ways they can use Lemon and like

49:51 one of the things I thought of immediately was um some

49:54 of the ways that Jalen Reagor was used in Green Bay and you know,

49:58 I think DeVonta Smith becomes your number one.

50:00 They're going to line him up outside more,

50:02 but if Jalen isn't willing able willing {question mark}

50:08 which of those is the predominant uh thing to throw

50:12 over the middle of the field then I'm not

50:15 going to say Quez Watkins is a wasted draft pick.

50:17 He's nice on little out cuts and things like

50:18 that, but you're really not getting the most out of this player.

50:22 So, I I just found this intriguingly as cuz it just felt like a real like no,

50:26 this is this is happening, guys and quarterbacks better get on board.

50:30 It's a really good point.

50:31 Um that's a really good point.

50:32 I hadn't really thought of it that way.

50:34 Um that it is like I talked about Darren Moji has to make picks for the Jets.

50:41 This is a pick for the Eagles.

50:43 It's not a pick for Jalen Hurts.

50:45 And I always feel like, you know, Jeremy Fowler is very respected.

50:50 When he writes something and puts that kind of work into it, I listen.

50:53 I read and I I I I listen.

50:56 reporter who wrote the piece on Jalen Hurts

50:58 and some of the tensions between him and the coaches.

51:01 Right.

51:01 And so, I kind of think where there's smoke, there's fire.

51:04 And I'd heard some of that a couple before the 2025 draft.

51:07 I had heard that and I was like, what?

51:08 Jalen doesn't get on He's not Everyone's not on board with like there's

51:14 some dissension there or some This is after they won a Super Bowl.

51:17 So, I was a little surprised at the timing of it.

51:19 I kind of put it away and then it popped back up and so now I got

51:24 to pay close attention to it cuz the second

51:25 time I've heard this in in in consecutive seasons.

51:28 And so it does feel like a move where they say you know, I I honestly,

51:32 I was kind of interested to see if Tyree Jackson if he slipped into the second

51:37 round if the Eagles would have been in play because that would have been,

51:40 you know, you want to talk about tea.

51:42 There would have been some tea there if you had made

51:44 that pick in in second round which obviously we have a separate

51:48 Philadelphia sports radio would never recover.

51:50 they would not recover.

51:51 So, yeah, I I I don't know

51:53 that Philadelphia is looking to replace Jaylen anytime soon,

51:56 but they clearly want things to go in a certain direction.

52:00 And this will be He's a good player.

52:04 I mean, Quez Watkins is a good player.

52:06 Quez Watkins reminds me of Let's see if you get

52:09 You see if this if you get any of this.

52:12 He reminds me of Hines Ward in the sense that whatever he needs to do,

52:17 he's going to do and there's like a level of intensity that is unmatched.

52:22 And usually it's Look, when the ball's in the air,

52:24 I don't care who's around me and I don't care how hard you're going to hit me,

52:28 I'm going to catch it.

52:28 And that's how Hines played.

52:30 I hadn't thought about that, which is, you know,

52:32 thinking about Jaylen in the middle of the field and vision,

52:35 is it vision related or whatnot.

52:37 But sometimes when you want a quarterback to access that part of the field more,

52:41 just having a guy who you know will catch everything might go cuz,

52:45 you know, some of it is like if he doesn't see it,

52:47 he doesn't want to throw it, right?

52:48 And Right.

52:49 I think that's part of the reason also like

52:50 they don't really like turning his back to the defense

52:52 and he's he's not the tall He's a shorter guy as well as far as quarterbacks go.

52:56 But I do think like just like Quez Watkins catches everything.

52:59 That is why that is his calling card.

53:01 So, bringing in a player who not only works that part of the field,

53:04 but is um just exceptional contested catch ability, catch radius is helpful.

53:11 Um but you know, we got to see it play out.

53:14 All right, Dallas is yours.

53:16 Let's do Dallas and then take a break.

53:18 Dallas, we go Caleb Downs, Malachi Lawrence, Jay Shurman Barham,

53:23 the edge out of Michigan, Drew Shelton, the tackle out of Penn State.

53:28 one?

53:28 Devon Moore.

53:29 Yeah, Devon Moore.

53:30 There it is.

53:32 Really?

53:32 Yeah, believe it or not.

53:33 Well, I mean, this is where you go into draft geek mode for me.

53:36 Do it.

53:37 But so, Christian Parker is as is the new defensive coordinator.

53:42 And he's worked with Pat Surtain was one of the guys he's worked with.

53:46 You know, Devon Moore is 6'3.

53:49 And when you watch him, he's 6'3 198.

53:51 And when I watched him on tape, I wasn't watching him.

53:54 I was watching the wide receiver he was guarding.

53:57 And I kept saying, "Golly, who is this guy?

54:01 Who is this tall, long cornerback?

54:03 He's giving this receiver." I don't even remember

54:06 the receiver anymore because it made me stop.

54:08 And I went and looked up Devon Moore and realized,

54:10 "Oh, I've got to write him up, too.

54:11 This is a player I've got to write up." And so from that point forward,

54:14 I was really intrigued by watching Devon Moore.

54:18 So you watched plenty Seahawks football.

54:19 We all did.

54:21 So tall cornerbacks are always intriguing to me because you just never know.

54:26 It's like really tall tackles.

54:28 Do they have enough change of direction quickness to matter?

54:31 And with cornerbacks, there's just so much, you know,

54:33 you're playing backwards, you're playing forwards, you're playing laterally.

54:37 You got to transition if you're in man-to-man.

54:40 And if not, you end up being, you know,

54:41 cover three corners and you're long and you

54:44 just play deep zone coverages and and you're part

54:47 of a scheme and your job is just to stay inside that scheme and do your job.

54:51 Devon Moore is intriguing to me because there are flashes where I

54:56 think he's like a a second-round type cornerback in the right scheme.

54:59 And there are other times where I say, "Okay,

55:02 I could see him going in the fifth." Injuries have been a big problem.

55:06 '22, '23, '24, he was injured in all three years with the uh with uh Florida.

55:13 So that's, you know, that's a concern.

55:15 He's missed time for three straight years.

55:18 He's only started 17 games because of his injuries.

55:21 So we haven't seen him a ton.

55:24 But when he played, I thought there were

55:27 some real pro flashes with size and movement skills.

55:31 He's not the fastest.

55:32 He's he's like a low 4-5 um 40-player,

55:36 which is okay for a you know, a 6'3 corner.

55:39 But, I feel like Dallas I like the I I like the the new

55:44 defensive coordinator and and his background

55:46 with some of the players he's worked with.

55:50 Yeah.

55:49 And then I look at this moldable piece of clay at 6'3 200 almost 200

55:54 lb and I'm I'm intrigued to see how they how they fit him into the defense.

56:00 Does he compete early on for a spot,

56:02 which I think he's got a chance to compete within the first couple

56:05 of years um for one of the spots inside the first three corners.

56:09 And how a new 34-year-old defensive coordinator really can maybe look

56:16 at him like I wonder how much input Parker had in saying,

56:19 "That's that's my kind of guy.

56:21 This is the kind of guy that I think is a great value for us on day three." So,

56:25 for a lot of reasons, I think he's truly an intriguing selection for me.

56:30 I like your point about Christian

56:31 Parker who coached defensive backs in Philadelphia.

56:34 Pretty good.

56:36 Yeah, Quinyon Mitchell had a good year.

56:38 Uh now, those are first-round picks, him and Digine, but you know,

56:41 I'm just saying like um I I find the composition of the Cowboys

56:46 secondary to be fascinating now um because Daron Bland's your one,

56:51 but you they signed Kobe Durant who I think's going to play

56:54 maybe outside more and then when you you have to Devin Moore,

56:58 you had the third-round draft pick Shebwoy Owoh-Junior did play last year.

57:02 And then with their first pick they took Caleb Downs,

57:04 which we're not talking about because everyone on Earth said this is a home run,

57:07 it's obvious, great, we love it for Dallas.

57:09 But, how they utilize Downs I think is going to be really fascinating.

57:13 Like do they use him at the nickel, right?

57:16 Like a lie, I mentioned that here Brian Branch was

57:19 the comp that I had uh leading up to the draft.

57:22 Um do they find do they play is there like do they they prefer

57:25 to play like a big nickel look

57:28 where he's almost like Digine was in Philadelphia.

57:32 I I I just I find it really interesting and I and I think for Parker,

57:37 I mean this feels like a trampoline to being a head

57:39 coach if he pulls this off and gets that turnaround going.

57:43 So, um they threw a lot.

57:45 You know, they also added Malachi Lawrence as a pass rusher.

57:48 Uh but we'll see.

57:51 Um yeah, the only I like their I like their draft.

57:53 I personally liked what they did.

57:55 And I just just really quickly I want to add,

57:57 I see him as a big nickel and I think their third safety is the next big thing.

58:02 We're in the midst of it anyway,

58:03 but it's a natural progression from 12 and 13 getting bigger and bigger is

58:08 you just say cuz to me Trade on Stukes is listed as a safety.

58:11 He's like a complete big nickel.

58:13 Keaontay Scott, fourth round pick.

58:15 He was a big nickel who was highly impactful against the run.

58:19 Um and the same thing was this is a big nickel role.

58:23 Jalen Pitre in Houston is a big nickel who basically

58:27 their former safeties who just play near the line of scrimmage.

58:30 Branch has a lot of similarities to Pitre, too,

58:32 in my I can't Downs though they'll do, but Caleb Downs does.

58:36 All right, let's take a quick break and let's get to the NFC South.

58:40 All right, we're back.

58:41 NFC South.

58:42 Uh I talked about the Saints and the Bucks

58:45 drafts on Monday cuz I like both of them.

58:47 The Bucks was one of my winners of the week.

58:50 Um but I also like a lot of the Panthers did.

58:52 I'll start here.

58:54 Um the player that I want to talk about is Li Hunter,

58:57 the nose tackle, the defensive tackle out of Texas Tech.

59:01 Monroe Freeling, I the only thing that surprised me was just like,

59:03 oh, you know, they've got a lot of offensive tackles,

59:06 but then I looked again and I was like,

59:07 well, Taylor Moton's kind of getting up in the years.

59:09 I think they don't know what they've exactly going to go do with Ickey Ekwonu.

59:13 So, and also I think the talent was just too good to pass up for them.

59:17 So, great player, love it.

59:20 Um Hunter to me, so we know what he's being brought in to do.

59:29 [laughter] Stop stop the run.

59:30 There's no doubt about that.

59:32 the Panthers nose was Bobby Brown that you know as part

59:36 of their 3-4 but they were they were still they they weren't as abysmal

59:42 against the run as they were in 2024 when Derrick Brown was

59:46 out but they were still not great 24th in DVOA against the run.

59:51 Um I thought interesting decision to go with a nose over a pass

1:00:00 rusher potentially or a safety but to me this felt like them

1:00:06 saying we need someone who can come in and contribute immediately in this regard

1:00:09 because we lost games because of our inability to stop the run.

1:00:12 So I I think I it may it makes sense and I

1:00:18 think he is intriguing because I think he will play immediately.

1:00:22 Yeah, right off the bat.

1:00:24 He's I don't think I know some teams I talked to think

1:00:27 he's got a little more rush potential than some of the other bigs.

1:00:30 Um I think it's okay.

1:00:31 He was he was really really good against Oregon

1:00:34 and Oregon had a pretty good offensive line this year.

1:00:38 Yeah.

1:00:37 But I I was intrigued by this when I saw

1:00:39 it I said ooh you know they're going to pair Derrick

1:00:42 Brown and Lee Hunter and you really you know they're going

1:00:46 to have A gaps and B gaps taking care of here.

1:00:49 This is going to be really tough to run on them

1:00:51 and if you can shut down one part of the field either

1:00:53 with a lockdown corner with two big hogs in the middle you

1:00:57 know however you however you want

1:00:58 to do it philosophically and and schematically.

1:01:01 It is always it's always intriguing to me we're just going

1:01:04 to keep using that word because it really forces the the chess

1:01:09 match of DC versus OC once you take something away and this feels

1:01:14 like a we're going to take this away from you move.

1:01:17 Once you take it away then you force offensive

1:01:20 coordinators and play callers into different aspects of their game.

1:01:24 So, it's a little easier, you know, if you it's a little easier for a defensive

1:01:28 coordinator to potentially manipulate those aspects as well,

1:01:32 especially if you have two guys who are handling the entire interior front.

1:01:37 Which So, I thought schematically,

1:01:39 this could end up really benefiting the defense

1:01:41 as a whole because it allows defensive coordinators a chance

1:01:45 to maybe become the defensive coordinator to attack more

1:01:48 aggressively other aspects that he's trying to force you into.

1:01:52 It it it's a good point with you about Jerry Azilow and what

1:01:55 he wants to do the style that he wants the defense to play in.

1:02:00 Um I also I think reflects the fact that because

1:02:02 they attacked edge and linebacker aggressively in free agency,

1:02:07 it's almost like, "Okay,

1:02:08 we can take a run stuffing defensive tackle because we did

1:02:11 these other things." They weren't forced to reach in the draft,

1:02:15 which is the benefits of having a lot of money in free agency.

1:02:17 Um another intriguing pick, Chris Brazel, the tall,

1:02:21 incredibly fast receiver out of Tennessee, who's been a mystery box.

1:02:25 Um kind of an odd destination for him.

1:02:27 I felt like, "Oh, they already have, you know,

1:02:30 Leggett and that there's a little bit of redundancy there,

1:02:33 but I don't think they're super tied to Leggett, so."

1:02:36 I don't think so, not at this what they got.

1:02:38 Oh, I also really like Sam Heck, who they added in the fifth round.

1:02:40 I thought that was great value to go get as a center.

1:02:43 Uh okay.

1:02:45 Uh that that You've got Atlanta, the other team we didn't talk about today.

1:02:48 I This is easy for me, A.J.

1:02:49 Terrell.

1:02:50 I didn't have to spend a ton of time on this one.

1:02:52 You got Terrell brothers playing together.

1:02:54 What was fascinating to me is A.J.

1:02:56 Terrell is the best nickel in the I mean,

1:02:58 true nickel, old school nickel in the in the draft.

1:03:01 Um his tape's fantastic.

1:03:03 He can play outside, he can play inside.

1:03:05 He's aggressive against the run, so he's not a shrinking violet against the run.

1:03:12 A slower 40 time, you know, he had some injuries.

1:03:16 They ran a really puzzlingly slow 40 time, which I don't buy into.

1:03:19 He ran a 4 6 4 6 5 40.

1:03:22 So, that [snorts] kind of 40 for a lesser

1:03:26 corner would force you to go undrafted.

1:03:28 I mean, it's really slow.

1:03:30 But, the tape is so good, and you really don't buy into it.

1:03:33 I had a GM tell me that, you know,

1:03:34 he he was speaking with the agent for Avonte Maddox, who said, "Look,

1:03:39 you think I would have had him run if he would have

1:03:41 ran if I thought he was going to run a 4 6 5?

1:03:43 He just would would just wouldn't have run

1:03:44 him." He said he was training much faster.

1:03:47 So, I tend to believe it.

1:03:48 And, as you you maybe have to have had this conversation before, you know,

1:03:53 they have the league has a lot of computer vision at their you know,

1:03:58 at their beck and call.

1:03:58 I think it's built into the telemetry

1:04:01 um platform that is now owned by Teamworks,

1:04:05 and it already picks up acceleration, max speed, Yeah.

1:04:10 change of direction, things like this.

1:04:12 So, you kind of from tape either you

1:04:15 either you have it through their Catapult wearable numbers,

1:04:19 or you're able to get that through your own technology off of All-22.

1:04:23 So, the 40 time maybe was less impactful um

1:04:27 than than some people thought it was going to be.

1:04:29 His tape is just really good.

1:04:32 I don't know what you thought about him, but I love his aggression.

1:04:35 He reminds me of his brother when he played.

1:04:37 But, I think I feel like he's even a more

1:04:40 instinctive player at times than his brother was coming out.

1:04:44 Yeah, I mean, this is it was a great moment,

1:04:46 first of all, start there, when they took him, right?

1:04:49 Because of his brother and and thinking about also the need.

1:04:54 It just felt like the stars aligned for Atlanta.

1:04:57 Um I really liked his tape.

1:04:59 I actually It's funny cuz that I didn't

1:05:01 watch him and feel worried about the speed.

1:05:03 I worried a little bit about the play strength and the frame.

1:05:06 I saw him get bullied a little bit.

1:05:08 That's fair.

1:05:08 Um but, it's funny cuz do though I say

1:05:11 that, but he's a very good run defender and tackler and just

1:05:14 a very technically sound corner and um somebody who I

1:05:18 do think will see the field pretty quickly given the need.

1:05:22 I do wonder about him in man coverage.

1:05:24 It's a pretty man heavy defense and they kept Jeff Ulbrich,

1:05:26 their defensive coordinator.

1:05:28 Uh and so that that is a little bit of a concern of mine.

1:05:32 I'll be interested I you know, I think they envision him playing outside.

1:05:36 They've got Bowman in the slot,

1:05:38 but part of me thought maybe I would play him inside in the NFL.

1:05:42 So we'll see where they go.

1:05:43 But yeah, it was just like oh I you know,

1:05:47 I I I actually I don't know when I look

1:05:48 back at the list of the corners in the order

1:05:50 in which they were taken and um I actually

1:05:54 had him above Hood who went 11 slots above him.

1:05:58 It was close.

1:06:00 Mhm.

1:06:00 I went back and forth a few times.

1:06:01 Hood I liked the feistiness and the frame,

1:06:04 but I thought this was good value for Atlanta to get him where they did

1:06:07 given their need and then also the drop-off at corner after that in my opinion.

1:06:11 So Uh I love that pick.

1:06:13 All right.

1:06:14 NFC West, we've talked about most of the NFC West,

1:06:17 talked about the Rams, the Cardinals and the Niners weirdly on Monday.

1:06:21 Um so I'm going to talk about Seattle.

1:06:26 So Bud Clark very fun.

1:06:28 I want to talk about him, but reality is like Tyjae Spears if this was

1:06:35 any team but the team that won the Super Bowl,

1:06:37 I feel like this would have been a much bigger story.

1:06:39 Because not only you have a running back being taken in the first round,

1:06:44 obviously very late.

1:06:46 It's a running back who had zero starts in college

1:06:50 mhm and this is I Dane had this in the beast.

1:06:56 He only had 15 offensive touches once in 41 games played.

1:07:03 Yeah.

1:07:02 Lance, like what is before we get to the player

1:07:05 and the fit and I'm not even saying I don't like the pick.

1:07:07 I'm just talking about the outlier aspect

1:07:10 of this historically like we're in pretty unusual

1:07:15 territory here when it comes to a back with this little tread on his tires,

1:07:20 this little experience going this early in the draft.

1:07:24 So you start with the draft itself and there were two primary backs,

1:07:28 Judarian Love I mean Judarian Love and Judarian

1:07:31 Price and they happen to play on the same

1:07:33 team which is in and of itself going

1:07:35 to create the storyline that you're talking about.

1:07:38 After that it falls way off.

1:07:42 Yes.

1:07:40 I mean I have Mike Washington next.

1:07:43 Some people like Emari Demercado Khalen Laborn earlier

1:07:45 than I thought he was going to go.

1:07:49 So I looked at it like this.

1:07:52 So when you look at free agency this year it was a pretty good free

1:07:55 agency crop of of running backs this year relative to what we see in most years.

1:08:00 And some teams went heavy into it.

1:08:03 But I was having this conversation with some

1:08:05 other draft people and and a few different teams.

1:08:09 And clearly if you knew what the draft board was going to kind of look like

1:08:12 at running back you knew that you had two

1:08:16 frontrunners and then it was going to fall off.

1:08:18 And so I think some teams were very

1:08:19 aggressive in free agency said let's go get it

1:08:22 now because this not this is not a great going to be a great running back draft.

1:08:26 And that's that's what happened was and Seattle was

1:08:31 sitting there and they clearly had a massive need.

1:08:35 Now I know John Schneider told everyone we want to move

1:08:37 back we want to move back we want to move back.

1:08:39 I just kept plugging in Judarian Price in my mock drafts 32 32

1:08:43 32 because to me he's clearly the second best back in this draft.

1:08:47 I think he's a really good player.

1:08:49 What you're talking about is absolutely true but it's also a function

1:08:53 of him staying at Notre Dame and playing behind a special running back.

1:08:56 Any place else he could have been

1:08:58 a a 210 carry back with 14 15 rushing touchdowns.

1:09:04 I think he sees and feels the run lane development at a really high level.

1:09:08 He feels the contours develop.

1:09:10 There's a real skill to feeling the run lane is like a it it's like

1:09:18 a it's like a living entity where it

1:09:20 it changes its shape for based on, you know,

1:09:25 if you have read and react defenders who can just shed quickly.

1:09:28 And so, you're constantly having to have the instincts to recognize

1:09:32 the way the shape of the run lane may develop.

1:09:35 And J.K.

1:09:35 Dobbins has that.

1:09:38 Yeah.

1:09:37 doesn't have long run speed.

1:09:38 He doesn't have long run speed.

1:09:39 And he hasn't had a chance to be impactful on third downs cuz Love was so good.

1:09:44 Right.

1:09:44 He just hasn't had the opportunity.

1:09:46 Yeah, no.

1:09:46 I mean, the same thing as a pass catcher.

1:09:47 He's very There's very little on tape of him.

1:09:49 I I've got to ask you this.

1:09:50 I've been dying to ask you this.

1:09:51 I've been dying to ask anybody who who

1:09:54 buys into the analytics argument on running backs is,

1:09:57 "So, I don't love second contracts for running backs.

1:10:01 It doesn't work out.

1:10:02 It's it relative It frequently fails or infrequently succeeds, I should say.

1:10:10 I love the idea of if you have a running

1:10:12 back that you think is pretty good and you've

1:10:14 got either two picks in the first round

1:10:17 or you have a late pick in the first round,

1:10:20 the idea of having a fifth-year option and then

1:10:23 a and then a a franchise year and frankly two franchise years,

1:10:27 if you've got the ability to keep a running

1:10:29 back for six years rather than four or potentially seven,

1:10:34 but let's just call it six years.

1:10:35 So, fifth-year option and a franchise option,

1:10:38 you've extended the life of that running back two more years

1:10:41 on your team without having to give him a second contract.

1:10:45 And you're kind of pushing up against the typical

1:10:48 norm for how effective a running back is.

1:10:50 So, I've always kind of felt like the argument about no

1:10:53 I get the idea that you can find other running backs.

1:10:55 But if you have one you really like, I love the idea of having a six having

1:11:00 six years with that back and no second contract.

1:11:02 if you're talking about pick 32 and not pick three.

1:11:05 Thank you.

1:11:06 Like that contract discrepancy is real.

1:11:10 Huge.

1:11:09 Um I I pulled up running back contracts because we all know, you know,

1:11:13 um Jahmyr Gibbs comes in instantly and he's already one of the top paid

1:11:17 running backs in the NFL because of the way the rookie scale is structured.

1:11:22 Jahmyr Gibbs is I mean I'm just scrolling,

1:11:22 scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, obviously Pet Yeah.

1:11:26 Yeah, it's it's not it's it's it's I think the bigger thing

1:11:30 with the running back in the first round is like what you said,

1:11:32 can you get similar production later?

1:11:33 And I think in this draft the drop-off is real.

1:11:36 That's important.

1:11:37 And then it's like the opportunity cost, right?

1:11:39 Like cuz if you have a chance to get, let's say Chris Johnson was still there,

1:11:43 if you can get a plus starter at that position,

1:11:46 the surplus value is just so much more significant.

1:11:49 But, Chris Johnson wasn't there.

1:11:51 I think that had to a fact.

1:11:52 I don't know.

1:11:52 I haven't done any reporting on that, but like

1:11:55 I I would be a little bit more like,

1:11:58 "I wish they would have taken the corner if the corner was still there." Um so,

1:12:02 you know, it it I I'm not as to put a pin on it,

1:12:06 I'm not as worked up as I know I I had so many conversations about Jahmyr Gibbs.

1:12:10 This is a little bit it's a different conversation here for Seattle.

1:12:13 Um and also, you know, with the the needs and the players available.

1:12:16 And the fit is great.

1:12:17 Like I you talked about his vision.

1:12:19 Um I think it's a great scheme fit.

1:12:22 I think also you can make a case and we're on I promise to stop here.

1:12:26 The tread on your tires thing, I you know,

1:12:28 I talked about like how unprecedented it is.

1:12:30 It could be a benefit.

1:12:31 The dude has barely run.

1:12:34 Like you you know what I mean?

1:12:35 Like that's for this position, that kind of matters.

1:12:39 And the other thing I'll add is um Dan

1:12:42 Pizzuta did a great piece on this on his newsletter,

1:12:44 which you guys should check out.

1:12:46 Um he's a guest on the show sometimes, but it feels like the NFL teams are

1:12:50 still under valuing the importance of kick returns.

1:12:53 Uh given how much it's affecting the league,

1:12:56 it's the dynamic kickoff and you know,

1:12:58 field position being uh more dramatic than

1:13:02 ever in terms of benefiting the offense.

1:13:04 And Jerem uh Jaderian Price is a hell of a returner.

1:13:08 So, that that to me adds as well to a Seattle You saw,

1:13:12 you know, the upper sheet Shaheed, but Seattle's special teams,

1:13:16 I think being them caring about that is really a big deal.

1:13:20 You bringing that up and we're not doing this team today,

1:13:23 but Zavian Thomas was a third-round pick and it's like as a wide receiver,

1:13:27 no business being in the third.

1:13:29 As a returner, special return talent.

1:13:32 Iowa returner.

1:13:33 And it's so it it kind of speaks to exactly

1:13:35 what you're talking about is the Bears are just saying,

1:13:38 "Hey, we're drafting a weapon here for the third phase.

1:13:41 It's basically what we're doing." So, I totally got it.

1:13:43 At first, I was thinking, "What are we doing here,

1:13:45 Ryan Poles?" And then as you as I remembered,

1:13:47 "Oh yeah, he's that big-time returner." It starts to really sink in.

1:13:51 Kaiden Wech and also Wech and yeah.

1:13:54 You know, he's a monster.

1:13:55 10 touchdowns in his career.

1:13:57 He is crazy productive.

1:14:00 I feel like there's like a conversation we had about like how teams

1:14:02 that don't value special teams right now are really falling behind and yeah.

1:14:07 All right.

1:14:08 Uh let's get out of the NFC West.

1:14:10 We got to We got to roll AFC West.

1:14:13 Uh you go first with the Chargers.

1:14:17 I don't know who I I don't know who you're going to pick here.

1:14:20 I didn't love some of their draft picks.

1:14:24 So, I'm going to go with a couple.

1:14:25 Um I'm just going to mention Jake Slaughter.

1:14:29 So, this is going to be me versus the league.

1:14:31 And then I'm always intrigued by this when it's me

1:14:34 versus the league because it helps me with my process.

1:14:37 If I'm wrong, I like to go back and say, "Okay, where did I miss?" So,

1:14:41 I always love going back and when when when the league

1:14:44 or even if a team has someone way higher than I have them,

1:14:47 but I had enough conversations to know they were the Chargers were not alone.

1:14:50 So, I feel like, "Okay,

1:14:52 I may have missed something here on my evaluation of Jake Slaughter." So,

1:14:55 I want to see how it plays out and see was I right

1:14:58 on him or was everyone else right and where was my blind spot?

1:15:01 Like, what happened?

1:15:02 Did I Was there a game I didn't like and it was confirmation bias after that?

1:15:06 So, this is what's intriguing to me is I want to watch.

1:15:09 His strength is um is very average, but he's a two-time team captain.

1:15:15 Uh very, very smart.

1:15:17 He played in the SEC where he faced loads of competition.

1:15:21 He's a better zone scheme blocker than he is a gap scheme blocker,

1:15:25 which matters now because you went from the heavy

1:15:29 gap scheme type stuff that Harbaugh loved to run,

1:15:32 you know, when he was at Michigan and came

1:15:35 did some of that with uh the Chargers.

1:15:37 Now, you're going Mike McDaniel.

1:15:39 And I'm expecting to see a lot more outside zone.

1:15:43 So, it makes some sense from a schematic

1:15:44 standpoint that you go get Jake Slaughter, who is better in in in zone than gap.

1:15:49 But, I I'm just I just never saw a third-round pick.

1:15:54 I've got him behind Hecht.

1:15:56 I've got him behind Trey Sermon.

1:15:58 I've got him behind a lot of the safeties or a lot of the centers in this draft.

1:16:03 Uh Connor Lou I had him behind Riley um not Riley um Logan Jones.

1:16:12 So, for me, Slaughter was back like at number five.

1:16:15 And I want to find out I'm intrigued to see

1:16:17 is he way better than I think he's going to be?

1:16:20 Like, why am I Why am I missing on this?

1:16:22 And then the other one I want to mention

1:16:24 is it's it's kind of a philosophical argument.

1:16:26 Genesis Smith.

1:16:27 So, this is a real ball-hawking safety out of Arizona, but he is a bad tackler.

1:16:32 And I'm not even That's not even hyperbole.

1:16:34 Like, he is a very bad tackler.

1:16:37 Tackle technique, aggression, across the board.

1:16:40 So, it's a battle.

1:16:41 I had this conversation with Dane.

1:16:43 I said Dane Brugler, I said He said he asked me,

1:16:46 "Have you seen Genesis Smith yet?" I said,

1:16:48 "Not yet." He goes, "That's going to test you on your because

1:16:51 we had just had a conversation about tackling versus ball production.

1:16:55 And he said, "This is going to be your test.

1:16:59 It's going to test It's going to be a litmus test

1:17:01 for you on how much how many issues with run support you're willing

1:17:06 to accept for high-end ball production." So he's another one that intrigues

1:17:10 me because can this guy play charger football the way they wanted to?

1:17:14 Can they get him to improve, greatly improve his aggression as a tackler,

1:17:19 and does that have any impact on his ball production?

1:17:21 Can he still be just as ball hawkish on the back end?

1:17:25 So those are both of my guys for different reasons.

1:17:28 Yeah, I feel like not enough uh attention has

1:17:33 been paid to Chargers defense post Jesse Minter, right?

1:17:39 Like they they Chris Olave is a new defensive coordinator.

1:17:41 The assumption is going to be very similar schematically to a defense

1:17:46 that really kind of likes What's the word I'm looking for?

1:17:50 Maybe played a bit above the talent level over the last couple of years

1:17:56 um cuz they were so well coached and schematically I think had an edge.

1:18:02 I I mean the the first pick was Mazidor,

1:18:04 which was, you know, I think everybody assumed him on tape?

1:18:10 Yeah, I did.

1:18:12 I You didn't convince me there.

1:18:14 It was Well, I I thought people were getting a little bit

1:18:17 over their skis with them saying he was as good as Bane,

1:18:20 and, you know, I didn't see that personally.

1:18:23 I know he came up really big in some big moments and at the end in particular,

1:18:27 but like I if if the thing about the age, right,

1:18:33 is like is if this is it I do I I I It's an interesting comp

1:18:41 with Keildrick Faulk who went uh you know

1:18:44 near the end of the first round because I

1:18:45 think those are the two players who were

1:18:47 kind of tiered together and it's kind of like

1:18:51 do you want the player that Mazi Ibe is now or the player that Faulk could be?

1:18:55 And the Chargers went with we want the player

1:18:57 that Mazi Ibe is now and I get it, right?

1:18:59 The Chargers are competing now.

1:19:01 Such a need for them at edge.

1:19:03 You know, Max out on a one-year deal but I

1:19:06 and but we all remember last year too like the way they would

1:19:08 use Oweh or they would get the three pass rushers on the field

1:19:10 and it made sense that they would go pass rush here.

1:19:12 I just um like ask me in three years.

1:19:18 [laughter]

1:19:17 Yeah, cuz Faulk is a three Faulk is a player two and three years from now.

1:19:22 All right, well I went with a mid edge rusher for my next team.

1:19:25 And that's the Kansas City Chiefs.

1:19:27 Very defense-heavy draft.

1:19:29 Uh yeah.

1:19:32 Delain is really nothing to talk about other than

1:19:34 the the trade part was the most interesting part.

1:19:36 I thought this was like a very obvious team need player.

1:19:41 All of it made perfect sense.

1:19:43 Woods was a bit surprising at 29, Peter Woods.

1:19:46 But when they took Peter Woods and then

1:19:47 they took Ar'Mond Ar'Mond Mason Thomas 11 picks later,

1:19:50 the pass rusher out of Nebraska or Oklahoma, pardon me,

1:19:53 I thought, oh, they recognized that they are slow.

1:19:57 Like that they needed speed up front because

1:20:00 those two players both are twitched up, right?

1:20:03 Like this was Brett Veach saying we got

1:20:06 to get faster on at the line of scrimmage.

1:20:08 And I want to talk about Ar'Mond Mason Thomas cuz um you know,

1:20:12 I I I there was I I had I had even thought maybe the Chiefs are

1:20:17 a trade-up team for Bailey or Reese and ultimately

1:20:20 they were they trade up for the corner.

1:20:22 But I think it's easy for me to see why they

1:20:27 coveted his skillset because he's so different from their existing roster.

1:20:34 Mhm.

1:20:35 Um So, I don't think I talked about him much.

1:20:37 Our Mason Thomas, for those who don't watch him, undersized, was like 6'2-ish.

1:20:42 He's small.

1:20:44 Super super sudden explosive pass rusher.

1:20:51 Um not incredibly productive, decently, but not incredibly at Oklahoma.

1:20:57 Uh very very different from George Karlaftis.

1:21:03 So, I this felt like let's try to get like a different

1:21:06 skill set in the room from the guys that we've drafted.

1:21:10 I think it's a very important pick for them.

1:21:12 I think these these those two two picks, Woods and Thomas,

1:21:15 are both very important because if this if they can't get more pass rushers,

1:21:22 particularly outside of blitzing,

1:21:25 I don't think I think that this turnaround isn't

1:21:29 going to happen the way that they hope they will.

1:21:32 Slow teams go away.

1:21:34 Like that's the nature of you you made

1:21:36 a really good point because I don't often look

1:21:39 at it that way when I'm when I'm trying

1:21:41 to anticipate the way the direction the team will go.

1:21:44 A lot of times I say who is this type of player?

1:21:47 Like what is their type?

1:21:49 What is this player's type?

1:21:50 This And so, their type has never been They've had Nick Bolton,

1:21:55 you know, they've had Drew Tranquill, they've had Karlaftis.

1:21:59 They've had kind of bullies and bruisers and guys

1:22:02 who don't they don't pop for their speed.

1:22:05 So, it's an interesting point you make because Our Mason is totally different.

1:22:09 He's not real He's not real committed in the run game.

1:22:12 He's like 240-some-odd pounds as you mentioned.

1:22:14 You got to keep him away from tackles and play him in space.

1:22:17 But his get-off I mean, as a former running back, his get-off is sick.

1:22:21 He can really If he beats and he's shorter and can bend, so tall tackles,

1:22:27 it's one of the hardest thing for a tall tackle to do is redirect a small edge.

1:22:33 Is it just because he Oh, so sorry, the

1:22:35 No, I was just going to say so that's like if he gets off the ball really well,

1:22:39 it's it's almost an automatic pressure on the quarterback.

1:22:43 Almost automatic, but if they get their hands on him Yeah.

1:22:47 it's a problem.

1:22:48 He's actually has decent speed to power because

1:22:51 uh in part because he's able to get low and under these tackles pads so quickly

1:22:56 and then he uses leverage to his advantage, but he can also get locked up.

1:23:00 So, he's got to win early.

1:23:04 Did you like it?

1:23:05 Did you like the pick for them?

1:23:07 You know, You said it's an important pick.

1:23:11 Yes.

1:23:11 I I I liked I think I liked it a little bit more than the Woods one to be honest

1:23:15 just because of the draft slot and I really wanted

1:23:18 them to take Denzel Boston where they took Peter Woods personally.

1:23:21 I just thought that would be awesome.

1:23:23 Uh but Yeah, I liked that they threw resources at it.

1:23:27 I do and I liked the Delaine pick draft capital notwithstanding.

1:23:32 That's just a dream, but Woods is another one where it's like well,

1:23:37 he he's not him is less about size and it's

1:23:39 more just about the lack of finishing that drove me insane,

1:23:42 but he's another guy who wins so fast.

1:23:47 Yeah.

1:23:47 And then it's like can he finish?

1:23:49 You know, that's the question.

1:23:50 I think that's why he wind up going 29 and not earlier.

1:23:52 So, I don't know.

1:23:53 We'll see.

1:23:54 I This is a pivotal draft for Brett Veach and I think I would

1:23:57 say like two of those three picks have to be have to work out to hit.

1:24:01 for Kansas City.

1:24:02 So, and I feel very good about Delaine.

1:24:04 I think that's one of those.

1:24:05 Delaine, Yoaqune, those were like the group of like this will be fine.

1:24:09 Like Easy ones.

1:24:10 I thought I think they're I think I'm with you.

1:24:12 Like Tho- To me, those are check marks and you move

1:24:15 on because they're going to they're they're not going to bust.

1:24:18 Okay, so I'll be quick.

1:24:19 I accidentally I screwed up the order.

1:24:21 I gave myself the Broncos, which was the other team in the AFC West.

1:24:25 You talked about the Raiders.

1:24:28 I'll be quick here.

1:24:29 I chose Jonah Coleman, uh who my little husky.

1:24:37 [laughter] I just love him, man.

1:24:37 And I I actually think he's going to be really useful for them.

1:24:41 I And first of all, they took him in the fourth round,

1:24:43 so great, you know, good value.

1:24:45 Um you know, I talked about him when I talked about the backs,

1:24:49 but uh he is a smaller super,

1:24:52 but he's you know, he's very compact, very powerful.

1:24:57 I I think he will be seen as just like you know,

1:25:01 a bruiser, runs between the tackles, goal line.

1:25:04 But I think he's got a little bit more wiggle,

1:25:06 a little bit more to his game than that.

1:25:09 Um I think he can also help them as a pass protector.

1:25:13 He to me fills a real need cuz they have Dobbins back,

1:25:16 but he's coming off the injury.

1:25:18 RJ Harvey had ups and downs rookie season.

1:25:21 So I just like the idea of them [snorts] continuing to invest in this running

1:25:26 back room because it was still a little bit underwhelming last year in Denver.

1:25:30 And I do think he is uh I I just felt like a very

1:25:34 underrated uh in terms of like the completeness of his game running back.

1:25:40 Yeah, I was not the biggest Jonah Coleman fan

1:25:42 because I don't see the suddenness that I like it.

1:25:44 But there's a certain style of running backs I like.

1:25:46 And so one of the things I've become very aware of is we all have biases about

1:25:51 certain types of corners we typically prefer and we

1:25:54 have a bias that can change our, you know,

1:25:57 push our grades for certain type of linebackers, certain type of running backs.

1:26:01 And so, you know, he's not as sudden and fast,

1:26:04 but then when I saw that I saw Denver drafted him,

1:26:07 I thought, well, this actually makes a lot

1:26:08 of sense because he's built like JK Dobbins.

1:26:12 JK has better speed.

1:26:13 JK is also always hurt.

1:26:15 So finding a running back was I thought essential.

1:26:18 You had to find another running back.

1:26:21 And then you compare him to how RJ Harvey runs, and there's some similarities.

1:26:25 And so, I started to realize, all right,

1:26:27 this is an example of Payton having a type.

1:26:29 This is a type of running back we want.

1:26:31 He's tough.

1:26:32 He's very tough, and he's very physical.

1:26:34 And I think Sean Payton wanted some replication of if we get leads,

1:26:40 we want tough runners.

1:26:41 You know, we want guys who can move the chains,

1:26:44 and we want to beat you up and keep you off the field.

1:26:46 So, I felt like he made some sense that that's

1:26:49 where he might have made maybe the most sense,

1:26:51 because for the team, they got JK Dobbins, who's often injured.

1:26:55 And then when you look at RJ Harvey,

1:26:57 this is a similar running style to RJ Harvey,

1:26:59 so it gives you a little bit of replication.

1:27:00 And you know, I I think Jonah Jonah's kind of what

1:27:06 you what you see is what you got you get.

1:27:09 Like, I don't think there's any surprises with Jonah Coleman.

1:27:11 His running style and how he performs is exactly how

1:27:16 on tape is exactly the same game in, game out.

1:27:18 Like, there's no real inconsistencies.

1:27:20 And that to me is one of the big benefits with him is

1:27:24 you're you're going to get the same thing every game, every single game.

1:27:28 I also really did like Emmit Johnson going to the Chiefs.

1:27:32 I was just looking at the order

1:27:32 of the backs cuz Coleman went before Washington Mike Washington,

1:27:36 who's the super [snorts] tall fast back and went to the Raiders.

1:27:40 And then Johnson ended up going in the fifth round,

1:27:44 which I thought was great value for Kansas City

1:27:46 as a change of pace back for Kenneth Walker.

1:27:48 I love that they added a back to because I

1:27:50 just think you don't want to give Walker a massive workload,

1:27:53 you know, from the jump.

1:27:56 So, I think he was so good last year in Seattle

1:27:59 when he was able to split carries with Charbonnet early on.

1:28:02 So, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson gets some some run there in in KC.

1:28:07 Um okay, we're out of the AFC West,

1:28:10 and the AFC North ended up talking about three of the teams last week.

1:28:15 The Ravens were one of my winners.

1:28:17 The Browns were actually, I think, the number one winner.

1:28:19 I think literally everybody on Earth, um, had them as the winning team.

1:28:24 And then we talked about the Steelers.

1:28:25 Did not talk about the Bengals.

1:28:26 And you have the Bengals.

1:28:28 Uh, so I'm looking at this.

1:28:30 I missed some of these picks when they happened.

1:28:32 I didn't see that they took Jack Endries, for example.

1:28:34 Who did you pick for the Cincinnati

1:28:36 Well, Endries was I'm not doing another tight end.

1:28:38 I could easily do Endries because the league missed on him.

1:28:41 He's going to be a good I think he's going to be a good pass catcher.

1:28:44 I'm going to go really super geek draft

1:28:47 and go with the seventh round pick uh, Landon Robinson.

1:28:51 And I'll tell you why.

1:28:53 I mean, this is haven't watched a lick, so deep in your mind.

1:28:57 Well, let me explain them to you.

1:28:58 Good.

1:28:58 This is how my scouting reports are supposed to are

1:29:00 they're meant to paint a picture for someone you haven't watched.

1:29:03 So, he's late in the process.

1:29:05 So, I start chasing my ghost list players, um, after the combine.

1:29:09 So, I'll have about 370 380 players written up by the combine.

1:29:14 And then I've got to start filling

1:29:15 in the rest of them because anybody who gets drafted,

1:29:17 I've got to have a scouting report for nfl.com.

1:29:20 And his pro testing day jumped off and it was really good.

1:29:27 And I said, "All right.

1:29:28 Well, I need to take a closer look at him." And this is

1:29:32 this I'm going to read just a short brief overview segment.

1:29:36 So, let me tell you how big he is first.

1:29:37 He's 5' 11", 293 lb out of Navy.

1:29:42 So, right off the bat you think, "Oh,

1:29:43 so he's undersized and from the Naval Academy." 5' 11"?

1:29:48 Not not a great chance of making his team.

1:29:50 But I said, "He may not possess ideal measurables,

1:29:53 but do not ignore his game tape.

1:29:55 He's small by NFL standards, but he's strong.

1:29:58 It takes a low pad level to neutralize

1:30:00 his leverage and move him at the point of attack.

1:30:03 He's typically quicker than his opponents when activated

1:30:06 in slanting stemming fronts while his sack production

1:30:09 may not translate cuz by the way he was he had plenty of pressures and sacks.

1:30:15 He's disruptive when active.

1:30:16 Robinson has a talent to grab a roster

1:30:18 spot as a one technique in the right scheme.

1:30:21 I mentioned him because here's why he's intriguing

1:30:26 and this is truly like draftnik type stuff.

1:30:29 So he's navy, he's small strike one, strike two typically.

1:30:34 But then when I turn the tape on, I've

1:30:36 got to let the tape talk and guys can't get

1:30:40 him blocked like they can't move him around and he's

1:30:42 293 lbs and like this doesn't make any sense.

1:30:45 And then I start thinking of and this is not a comparison,

1:30:47 but I start thinking of Aaron Donald when he was coming

1:30:50 out and he was 280 some pounds and he was low, strong, leverage player.

1:30:55 And it's like a door jam.

1:30:57 When you get that door jam and you can't move it,

1:30:59 um when you get just the right angle that's

1:31:02 what I was thinking of with Landon Robinson is it

1:31:04 he gets underneath the pes so he's quick so he's

1:31:07 into the blocker first he's always lower he's always lower.

1:31:12 And then he's very strong.

1:31:14 He's stronger than 293 lbs in his lower half.

1:31:18 And I just and what's intriguing to me

1:31:20 and I could have talked about Jack Andres,

1:31:21 I could have talked about Connor Lou as center.

1:31:24 They have a lot of picks.

1:31:25 I actually I actually love the Bengals draft.

1:31:27 I thought they just let it come to them.

1:31:29 But Landon Robinson's intriguing because this is going to be the battle

1:31:33 of small school undersized with really good tape and can we you know,

1:31:40 we've seen this with Calijah Kancey was

1:31:42 an early pick and then he was massively disruptive, but he was an early pick.

1:31:45 Ed Oliver, first round pick, undersized and we wrote him off, you know,

1:31:50 they didn't write him off, but he he was an outlier when he was picked.

1:31:53 This is a seventh round pick.

1:31:54 None of nobody's really thinking about him or talking about him,

1:31:58 but I'm going to keep an eye on him because

1:31:59 it basically I want to see is somebody who's fast,

1:32:05 who plays with tremendous determination,

1:32:07 Naval Academy as you can expect, and then has great leverage,

1:32:13 and some physical advantages and athletic advantages

1:32:15 that you that that work beyond his size disadvantage.

1:32:21 I'm very curious to see if he's a guy that not only makes the team,

1:32:24 but gets on the field.

1:32:25 I'm actually not going to be surprised if

1:32:26 he ends up seeing a field for the Bengals.

1:32:29 I just want to see him stand next to Dexter Lawrence.

1:32:32 [laughter]

1:32:32 I mean, they say Dexter's weighing like in the 380s, I think right now.

1:32:37 Uh yeah.

1:32:38 And he's in the 290s, I'm like, yeah, that's going to look way, way different.

1:32:43 Uh it'll be very interesting.

1:32:44 It Well, first of all,

1:32:45 it's kind of interesting now that you put that in perspective,

1:32:47 they started with an undersized defensive lineman,

1:32:50 Cashius Howell, and we talked about, you know,

1:32:53 the Chiefs deviating from some of their norms with their picks.

1:32:57 I mean, the Bengals have been drafting

1:32:59 athletic freaks and striking out year after year.

1:33:02 So, maybe there's something to be said about trying something new,

1:33:07 which is like So, Cashius Howell is the the pass rusher out of A&M.

1:33:10 I talked about him more in a little bit

1:33:12 in detail um with Dalvin Eek, but, you know,

1:33:15 he he he was one of the short-arm guys with Bane, smaller,

1:33:19 but a more technically refined pass rusher than some of your bigger athletes.

1:33:26 So, Oh, yeah.

1:33:27 It does It's definitely a deviation

1:33:29 from who they've gone after, that's for sure,

1:33:31 and continues to be a need, a desperate need for this Cincinnati team.

1:33:36 Um all right, let's wrap with the NFC North.

1:33:39 Uh I think actually we have to do the entire No,

1:33:43 we talked about the Bears and some of the [clears throat] of them.

1:33:45 You've got two, I've got one.

1:33:47 Um you can go first with the Packers, who did not have a first-round pick.

1:33:53 Uh I have no idea who you're going to talk about here, actually.

1:33:57 This was a very interesting They they they I

1:34:02 thought this was a lot of surprising picks for them.

1:34:07 Yeah.

1:34:06 Um so, this is this guy's is an interesting pick.

1:34:10 I didn't love their whole draft.

1:34:12 This one is really interesting because he fits tight.

1:34:16 No, I'm not going to say Trey Sermon.

1:34:17 Um although they got a good kicker in the sixth.

1:34:20 I like that pick, but it's Danny Dimes.

1:34:22 Um it's Danny Dimes Sutton from uh Kentucky.

1:34:27 I mean I mean from Penn State.

1:34:29 Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

1:34:30 Yeah.

1:34:31 And so, he I had this conversation on on the um draft broadcast that we did.

1:34:37 So, it's it's always interesting when you have the Ron Wolf So,

1:34:40 Goody and Kiss came from the Ron Wolf school.

1:34:42 So, there has been some replication uh

1:34:45 and continuity of type when it comes to positions.

1:34:49 And Kingsley Enagbare was actually my comp

1:34:53 for Danny Dimes Sutton because they're similar body types.

1:34:58 Their their playing style is similar.

1:35:00 Their physicality is similar.

1:35:02 I didn't like Enagbare when he came out really.

1:35:04 I just didn't think he had enough juice.

1:35:07 Danny Dimes Sutton is a little bit different.

1:35:09 So, this is this is what I'm intrigued by is

1:35:13 number one we're going to keep drafting Za'Darius Smith.

1:35:16 Like the same type of rugged,

1:35:18 physical edge guys similar to what Bal- Baltimore drafts, frankly.

1:35:22 And so, this is a battle of power and will and force versus finesse.

1:35:29 And I'm I'm interested to see how he's going to rush the quarterback.

1:35:33 Is he going to be able to convert power

1:35:36 and force and and will he pick up maybe one

1:35:39 or two go-to moves and learn to be one

1:35:41 of those bruising power rushers that can translate it to the NFL?

1:35:45 Or is this going to be another situation where we just have someone,

1:35:49 you know, beating and banging on the blocker in front of them,

1:35:51 but not really you know being as disruptive

1:35:54 as you need to be because there's he's very

1:35:58 violent and he's very physical but is that the direction

1:36:01 the NFL is going if you don't have rush means a fourth round pick but almost

1:36:05 feel like if you don't have rush and you're

1:36:08 an end with no rush cuz Zion Young had

1:36:10 first round run run stuff easily first round size

1:36:15 but he still have enough rush to make it

1:36:16 in the first round fourth round this is no

1:36:18 big deal it's not a bad pick fourth round

1:36:20 that's not what I'm saying but I am curious

1:36:22 if you can ever turn a bruising you know

1:36:26 phone booth battler on the edge can you ever

1:36:28 get those guys to really crank up enough rush

1:36:31 where you're saying this is a second contract player.

1:36:34 I would say also um even though he's in the fourth round because

1:36:40 of his landing spot there's a pathway for him to get on the field right

1:36:43 Oh yeah with Micah Parsons being injured at the start

1:36:45 of the season lots of spots out there right now.

1:36:47 Lots of spots um yeah I you know I did watch him a little

1:36:51 bit um the first thing that you know is he did very very large man [laughter]

1:36:58 um you talked about I think you said you used

1:36:59 the word violent that would be the word that comes

1:37:01 to my mind particularly against the run didn't see

1:37:04 quite like the bend and past it's interesting cuz he

1:37:08 he was pretty productive but um mostly got to it

1:37:12 with just power so I think whether or not he

1:37:15 can continue developing as a rusher will determine whether

1:37:18 or not he can you know be more like a thing

1:37:20 Barre perhaps or um some of the other similar prototypes

1:37:24 in the league they also took Brandon Smith that was

1:37:28 their first pick pick 52 the cornerback out of South

1:37:31 Carolina very strong need for them he he he's

1:37:35 a fun watch he is super athletic I actually don't

1:37:40 even know how he tested but I just remember watching

1:37:43 his tape that was the first thing that jumped out

1:37:45 was just the speed and the movement skills and the suddenness,

1:37:53 but I also there was a lot of mistakes, missed tackles.

1:37:57 So, I think he coaching and it it it it's a high-variance pick is what I'll say.

1:38:01 The upside is very high.

1:38:03 He reminded me of Caleb Farley when he came out of Virginia Tech.

1:38:06 Oh, yeah.

1:38:07 And and and everyone had him in the first and he had injury issues,

1:38:10 but I remember watching tape and like,

1:38:12 yeah, I see the traits and I see the potential,

1:38:15 but it was just very it was bumpy in coverage.

1:38:19 And when I watch Brandon SeeSauce,

1:38:20 he's got a lot of the same stuff where the coverage

1:38:23 is not always as clean as it needs to be.

1:38:25 Like, I'd prefer it to be a little bit stickier than it is right now.

1:38:30 So, watching that development is going to be interesting to me

1:38:34 on SeeSauce to see how quickly can they get him,

1:38:37 you know, coached up from a footwork standpoint, route anticipation standpoint,

1:38:41 and then or they just going to let him try to beat

1:38:43 up on people in press coverage or they're just going to hey,

1:38:45 we're just bumping around.

1:38:46 We're going to we're we're going to get after it from the snap

1:38:49 and use your size and athleticism

1:38:50 and physicality to disrupt the routes early on.

1:38:53 I'm I'm curious to see how they use him.

1:38:55 I thought he would go before Pons.

1:38:57 Uh now I'm looking at the corner, yes.

1:38:59 So, that was I think decent value for them and obviously it was an area of need.

1:39:04 Um okay, two more teams.

1:39:05 I've got the Vikings.

1:39:07 I listen, I'm not I'm not going to get hipster on you here.

1:39:10 There were three moments in the draft that were I was like, whoa.

1:39:13 One was Tate going forward, the second was Ty Simpson at 13,

1:39:17 and the third was Caleb Banks to the Vikings.

1:39:19 I I didn't see that coming.

1:39:21 I didn't see that coming at all.

1:39:23 And a reach too, by the way.

1:39:24 If we're not going to talk about it,

1:39:25 can we just did you just draft need and just like it

1:39:29 felt like they drafted need with a guy who's got foot issues.

1:39:32 Like, I felt felt early to me.

1:39:35 But 100% but cuz I didn't think he would

1:39:38 I think he would have been they had pick 51.

1:39:40 I don't know, maybe he would have gone before then.

1:39:42 Texans could have been an interesting but you know,

1:39:46 I this is is interesting, right?

1:39:49 Because there's no GM in Minnesota.

1:39:53 This felt like a very Brian Flores influenced draft and pick.

1:40:00 Mhm.

1:39:59 Um because this is you talk about need,

1:40:01 they have been chasing a pass rush pass rushing

1:40:04 defensive tackle for some time in Minnesota and Flores is

1:40:09 one with scheme and they've been able to get

1:40:12 a lot of really good play out of, you know,

1:40:14 like Van Ginkel, Greenard who they just traded.

1:40:17 But they haven't been successful, they've paid up.

1:40:20 Remember um Jonathan Allen, Javon Hargrave,

1:40:25 they've tried to bring in veterans and it just hasn't worked out.

1:40:29 Uh Redmond's been okay for them but um it it's sort of been a need in Minnesota

1:40:35 for a minute and the thing I'll say about Banks

1:40:37 and you and I talked about this on the phone.

1:40:40 If he's healthy Freaky.

1:40:45 Yeah.

1:40:46 Best rushing But best rushing defensive tackle in the draft and it's

1:40:50 not even close and I know like you said they're

1:40:53 every need so when I've got to do my research

1:40:55 on needs and so I'll go to beat writers,

1:40:58 I go to fan sites cuz a lot of fan sites are pretty good.

1:41:00 I mean they're they're they're pretty well run and so

1:41:03 they have a better idea of needs and than I'm

1:41:06 going to and everything was pass rushing defensive tackle and I

1:41:09 just thought in this in this economy in this draft?

1:41:13 I mean good luck.

1:41:14 There's like Grayson there's Grayson Halton in the third

1:41:17 or fourth round at the time I thought third or fourth round from and then

1:41:20 you got Caleb Banks and Caleb Banks is injured.

1:41:22 So I never plugged him in with with Minnesota.

1:41:25 Now, did I think he was a fit with Minnesota?

1:41:27 Sure.

1:41:29 I just didn't think where they got him.

1:41:31 But I don't think he's Chris Jones but if he's healthy

1:41:36 His flashes will remind you at times of maybe a young Chris Jones.

1:41:43 like Chris Jones in the LSU 2004 game.

1:41:45 If you want If you If you're a Vikings fan you

1:41:47 want to get excited about this pick, go watch that game.

1:41:49 a crazy game where he reached out and grabbed I Who was the running back?

1:41:53 Grabbed him with one hand and just threw

1:41:54 him to the ground immediately and I was I

1:41:56 That was a It's funny you say that game because that was a moment where I said,

1:42:00 "I think this guy's really good." I need to like

1:42:04 His abilities at his size are just not something you see very often.

1:42:08 you just don't see that.

1:42:10 However, foot injury at his size is also a very alarming thing.

1:42:14 This is ultimately going to come down to, I think,

1:42:17 not how he's utilized but it whether or not the their medical

1:42:20 staff made the right call here cuz I I don't know.

1:42:24 Um yeah, but if he hits he's def He could be defensive rookie of the year.

1:42:29 I mean he feels like probably the ultimate boomer bust Yeah.

1:42:34 Totally.

1:42:36 Because he has real boom.

1:42:37 Like I don't use the phrase boomer bust

1:42:39 that often because most guys don't have a boom.

1:42:41 They don't, you know, like they don't have all-pro He's got all-pro potential.

1:42:49 Yeah.

1:42:48 bust stuff is a little a little scarier with him

1:42:51 because the injuries that he's had over the years.

1:42:53 All right, the last team, the Detroit Lions.

1:42:57 Who did you pick?

1:42:59 I have no I I've guessed.

1:43:01 Um Abney?

1:43:04 I could have said him.

1:43:05 He's I've got three names on the the card.

1:43:06 Abney, Jimmy Rolder, and Derrick Moore because I find all

1:43:10 of them to be fascinating picks for different reasons.

1:43:14 Dealer's choice, you pick one and I'll go.

1:43:16 have picked Derrick Moore.

1:43:17 That's an interesting one because that they need him to be good.

1:43:20 So, Derrick Moore is like a dumb thing to say but they actually do.

1:43:24 They really So, Derrick Moore has great size.

1:43:27 He has exactly the kind of size you want.

1:43:28 He's got long arms.

1:43:30 Um he's got a tremendous his traits are really really high end.

1:43:35 He's also got a nasty um long arm rush.

1:43:40 So, when he hits you either with the two hand speed

1:43:43 to power or the one hand long arm rush, he wrecks people.

1:43:46 He might be he and TJ Parker on they're in classes

1:43:49 by themselves when it comes to that type of rush.

1:43:52 But, I'm just pulling up his his stats.

1:43:54 I got to see if I can find his pro day.

1:43:55 I don't have his pro day with me.

1:43:57 But, he's 6'3" and 7/8.

1:43:59 So, he's 6'4" 255 with about 33 and 1/2 inch arms.

1:44:03 But, he is he has had some real production in the past.

1:44:07 He can crank up some production.

1:44:09 He's got a lot of rush and a lot of ability as a rusher.

1:44:15 He takes some plays off, which I think is one of the concerns I have with him is

1:44:19 that he takes plays off and he doesn't dominate like he's capable of.

1:44:23 Because when he flashes, there are flashes where I'm like, "Wow,

1:44:26 he can really he can really be dominant in both

1:44:29 the run game and the pass game." Because he's

1:44:30 so strong with his hands that he can shed um

1:44:34 tight ends and he also can beat tackles with it.

1:44:37 And then as a pass rusher, when he really cranks it up,

1:44:40 he's got some ability as a pass rusher.

1:44:41 I thought he had second round talent.

1:44:43 And that's [snorts] where he went in the second, right?

1:44:45 Second or third?

1:44:46 Yeah, second round, yeah.

1:44:47 It was uh here, let me look at the I was

1:44:49 interested in him because he went above Zion Young Yak Yakus

1:44:57 Yeah, Gabe Gabe Akus, yeah.

1:44:59 Yeah, so you went after Second round was an interesting edge rusher order.

1:45:02 It went TJ Parker, Armon Watts, Mason Thomas, Cassius Howel.

1:45:05 I thought those three could go in any order,

1:45:07 so uh and then more before Young and Yakus.

1:45:10 That was a little bit surprising to me, so I was interested in that choice.

1:45:14 It's all pass rush.

1:45:15 Getting back to what we said because his pressure

1:45:17 count if you go look up his pressure count,

1:45:19 it's pretty high over the last two years at Minne- at Michigan.

1:45:23 And I think that's ultimately why he went ahead of Zion Young.

1:45:26 Now, Zion Young to me is a safer player.

1:45:29 Gabe Askew's is probably a safer player.

1:45:31 Askew's, yes, I But, it's um Yeah.

1:45:35 With Derrick Moore, I see all these tools, and I see all these flashes,

1:45:40 but I and I'm interested to see if eight playing with Aidan Hutchinson, right?

1:45:45 This is what This is what fascinates me.

1:45:47 When you have I've seen this with the Texans.

1:45:49 They've got Will Anderson on the field, and this is the standard,

1:45:54 and you better live up to the standard.

1:45:55 They also happen to have Aziz Al-Shaair and and Kemoko Latu,

1:45:59 and they have a bunch of guys like that.

1:46:01 Well, you've got Dan Campbell and you as your head coach,

1:46:05 you got Aidan Hutchinson on the other side.

1:46:08 My guess is Penei Sewell.

1:46:10 He's not a defensive player, but you know,

1:46:11 there's a certain level of intensity that is expected.

1:46:14 And so, you have Derrick Moore coming from Michigan over to, you know,

1:46:17 Detroit to the Lions.

1:46:19 So, he stays in state.

1:46:21 With all those flashes and all those traits,

1:46:23 I'm really fascinated to see if he can crank up the fire on all three downs,

1:46:27 because if if he stays, you know,

1:46:30 if he stays hungry and stays active and keeps the motor churning,

1:46:34 I I think he has a lot of potential to be a good

1:46:37 starter and like a frequent visitor into the into the the passing pocket,

1:46:42 because he's got the tools to do it.

1:46:44 It's just sometime the motor turns off a little bit.

1:46:47 So, that's what That's what's fascinating about this pick.

1:46:50 He has second-round talent.

1:46:52 I just figured he'd go in the third for some

1:46:53 of the things that I I brought up to you, but clearly rush wins out.

1:46:58 You If you got a chance to rush, we're pushing you ahead of the run defenders.

1:47:01 Well, I mean, I talked about you know,

1:47:04 I've been talking about like who's got a pathway to be impactful.

1:47:06 I mean, he They need him.

1:47:08 I mean, you're looking at outside of Hutchinson,

1:47:11 it's DJ Wonnum, Payton Turner out of Dallas.

1:47:16 Like he he's going to play.

1:47:18 And so, uh whereas like I like Keith Abney, uh,

1:47:22 who's the kind of undersized but very I find shifty corner, very fun to watch.

1:47:29 Um, I don't know if he'll play outside or inside in the NFL,

1:47:32 but in the Lions cornerback room, I look at it and they seem to have,

1:47:35 you know, I'm like, "Oh, they got a lot of players." But they seem

1:47:37 to run out of them in a hurry every year.

1:47:39 So, I thought that was great value for them

1:47:41 to grab him in the fifth round when they did.

1:47:43 Um, and I think he's

1:47:44 have you watched Are you familiar with Keith Abney's, um, speed skating?

1:47:49 No.

1:47:50 Okay.

1:47:50 Because you said you didn't know about the, uh, one of the other stories.

1:47:53 You go ahead and as soon as we're done, go Google, um, Keith Abney skating.

1:48:00 He was a a set US records as an inline skater for speed skating.

1:48:05 And And then when you see his body and his build and his lower half is,

1:48:09 you know, the the the the thickness of his legs,

1:48:12 you'll be like, I totally get it now.

1:48:14 He's got a different kind of build,

1:48:16 but it's going to make total sense when you see

1:48:18 him dominating as a a speed skater when he was young.

1:48:21 He ended up I think he figured out, "Mm,

1:48:23 there's only so far I can go with inline speed skating,

1:48:26 and I can be a really good football player." in the NFL.

1:48:30 Yeah, so check that check that film out if you get a chance.

1:48:32 It's pretty good.

1:48:33 You know, I'm looking at the listed corners

1:48:35 and there were a lot of guys, not a lot,

1:48:36 but a few guys taken before him that I didn't like nearly as much as he did.

1:48:41 He's He's really Like, he's safe to me.

1:48:44 I like him.

1:48:45 Um, all right, well, that's it.

1:48:47 Uh, this was long, but you do hours and hours of radio every day,

1:48:51 so you're used to the yapping.

1:48:53 Uh, Lance, thank you so much for joining me.

1:48:55 This was such a blast.

1:48:56 I really appreciate you coming on.

1:48:58 Yeah, I had a good time.

1:48:59 Sorry I pushed so long.

1:49:00 I just get excited about this stuff.

1:49:02 Where else are you going to hear the in-depth Navy defensive [laughter]

1:49:06 I feel like I'm going to I'm going to do Jack Enders.

1:49:09 I'm going to do Jack No, I love it.

1:49:11 I love it.

1:49:12 I'm going to do Jack Enders.

1:49:12 He's another tight end.

1:49:14 I can't come up with four tight ends.

1:49:15 You have a lot of tight ends.

1:49:16 But that if there's one theme with the draft, that would be it.

1:49:19 Like, the the tight ends and the buy that's going to be a continued theme.

1:49:23 That and the I think the big nickel.

1:49:26 Where can folks check out your work?

1:49:27 You can find all the scouting reports I did this year at nfl.com.

1:49:31 Sometimes they have me write offensive

1:49:34 and defensive rookie of the year articles.

1:49:37 I've hit three straight defensive rookies of the year.

1:49:39 So, if they have me write it this year, check in.

1:49:42 I've had Will Anderson, Jared Verse, and Carson Swaim who was a big long shot.

1:49:49 Wow.

1:49:49 I didn't get it.

1:49:49 I put that on Twitter.

1:49:50 I wasn't They didn't have me write the article.

1:49:52 So, you can go find the tweet.

1:49:53 But, I'm I've already got my eyes on Baine.

1:49:56 Baine and Styles right now are battling it out.

1:49:58 I think Baine is going to be my rookie of the year choice,

1:50:01 but I haven't made that official yet for defensive rookie of the year.

1:50:04 We talked a lot about Baine on Monday's pod and the Bucks draft,

1:50:08 which I thought was maybe next to Cleveland's my favorite.

1:50:12 Yeah, he's a Todd Bowles fit, too.

1:50:14 Like, Todd Bowles is going to love him.

1:50:16 Dream landing spot for him and for I mean, it just makes a ton of sense.

1:50:20 That's a good That's a good one.

1:50:22 Yeah, I I think that's a good pick.

1:50:25 I'm looking at now the offensive players and thinking who I would go with.

1:50:28 All right, we'll check that out.

1:50:30 I will be back next week.

1:50:31 We're going back to once a week, the usual cadence.

1:50:34 We'll be coming out on Wednesdays until we get back

1:50:37 to power rankings and divisional previews later in the summer.

1:50:40 I thank you as always to everyone at Omaha Productions, Kirsten Sobecki,

1:50:43 Owen Sailor, Tucker Tashjian, and Foster, and I'll see you guys next week.

1:50:49 Woo!

1:50:49 Oh, yeah.

1:50:51 Oh, yeah.

1:50:53 Oh, yeah.

1:50:56 Oh, yeah.