Episode 9: Ruth Jones ON Mrs. Bennet as the Greatest Villain

0:01 Hi, I'm Michelle Collins.

0:03 And I'm Edith Bowman.

0:04 And welcome [music] to On the Box,

0:06 the podcast where we celebrate the latest releases

0:09 and most loved shows on BritBox and beyond.

0:12 This week, very excited.

0:13 We're going to be joined by I mean, she's many things.

0:16 She's mainly I would say people who know her as a comedy icon,

0:20 Ruth Jones, but is she is so much more.

0:24 I am so excited to talk to Ruth.

0:26 I know most people would probably know her from Gavin

0:29 and Stacey where she starred alongside James Corden.

0:32 Where I know Ruth Jones from and where she

0:34 changed my life was her appearance on Nighty [music] Night,

0:38 which was one of the first British comedies that I

0:42 felt cool for knowing about because most other Americans didn't know

0:45 about it and I had a friend who had a DVD

0:47 of it and it was like my version of The Ring.

0:49 Like I watched Nighty Night, which by the way,

0:52 before anyone fires it up, it's an extremely dark comedy.

0:55 It's Julia Davis.

0:57 She's a legend.

0:58 She's one of the funniest I think can

1:00 I say most underrated comedic actresses, I believe.

1:03 I would absolutely agree.

1:05 When she popped up, did you not pop up

1:07 in a Paul Thomas Anderson film with a very small role, but I was kind of like,

1:11 why is nobody in the same way that um

1:14 Olivia Colman kind of made that transition from, you know,

1:18 like Peep Show into Tyrannosaur and you're like,

1:20 "Whoa." And she's winning Oscars.

1:22 I feel like Julia is another one of those actresses where I don't know,

1:26 she's just not been given the opportunity to really

1:29 show the depth of what she's capable of doing.

1:31 My gosh, I love Julia Davis and Ruth Jones who

1:33 is in that show in sort of a smaller role,

1:36 but my god, the impact she had on me from Nighty Night.

1:38 So, I'm so excited to talk to her about just working on that cuz

1:41 it's a show that actually I think changed me as a comedian.

1:45 That's brilliant.

1:45 And also cuz like Julia then obviously kind of repaid the favor

1:48 in a way by by playing Dawn in Gavin and Stacey.

1:51 And so, like a a small role, but my god,

1:54 did she make an impact every time she was in a scene.

1:57 Edith Bowman, I spent the weekend binging The Other Bennet Sister.

2:01 Ah, same.

2:03 It I I'm going to be honest, I did not know what to expect.

2:06 I knew it was a period piece and that it was 10 episodes and I thought,

2:11 "Okay." I watched all 10 episodes this weekend and I would do it again.

2:15 What a fantastic show.

2:18 So brilliantly acted.

2:20 Like the acting, I mean, I don't even know where to begin.

2:23 I loved it.

2:25 It's it's so different to anything else

2:28 I've seen that's kind of been period stuff.

2:32 And that was something I wanted to talk to you about as well,

2:34 but Ruth's I mean, Ruth plays Mrs.

2:36 Bennet, maybe one of the kind of best or most famous villains in the world,

2:40 but but it was Ella who plays Mary Bennet in this who

2:45 I just thought the casting in this, particularly with her, was extraordinary.

2:51 And I think this would have been

2:53 a very different show had they cast someone else

2:56 in that role because what she brought to it physically um as well as, you know,

3:02 her kind of performance, I just thought was fantastic.

3:06 Could not agree more.

3:07 Her name is Ella Bruccoleri and as I was watching

3:11 this girl act and I had never seen her in anything before,

3:14 so this was for me like a debut role.

3:17 Yeah.

3:17 I was thinking, where did this brilliant girl come from?

3:21 Mhm.

3:21 There was a scene where she got

3:22 flustered about something and her face literally flushed.

3:25 Like her face got red and I thought, "Oh my god,

3:28 how do you even do that as an actress?

3:30 How do you control mentally your body to even

3:33 have that reaction?" She is so fantastic in it.

3:37 It's the it's when she goes to get glasses fitted

3:40 and it's the way that she she almost uses them

3:43 as a kind of a mask in a way that she

3:46 loves that she's able to then they're tiny little glasses,

3:48 but she's able to kind of almost hide behind them and then make faces.

3:53 She's got this brilliant way of using

3:54 her face as expressive and telling the story,

3:58 telling us how she feels.

4:00 Um I loved it.

4:01 I thought she was just just a such a refreshing

4:04 take on this whole kind of period and idea.

4:07 She was brilliant and again, and Ruth was so great.

4:12 I mean, I'm I'm doing this episode from my parents' house.

4:14 My mother is locked into the room and I'll say as someone who

4:17 also had a very strong presence of a mother in her [laughter] life.

4:22 This role did affect me.

4:24 It was very, very well done and she's just it's like she's you have

4:29 to kind of dislike her, but then you just can't help but like her.

4:31 It's one of those sort of roles.

4:33 Yeah, and also there's a Mr.

4:36 Hayward in it, Donal Donal Finn who I most recently saw in Young Sherlock.

4:41 But I was like I was hold on a minute,

4:42 he's got a really thick his real accent is really thick Irish.

4:46 And in this, he's got this this kind

4:48 of northern English brilliant beautiful lilt.

4:52 So, I'm like, he's good.

4:54 He's really good.

4:56 good.

4:56 Yeah.

4:57 Listen, he's much younger than me,

4:59 but I did have a little crush on him [laughter] in this.

5:02 I had to Google him to be like, "How old is he?" And he's 30,

5:05 which is not in this day and age unheard of, but I mean,

5:08 he was born when I was entering high school, so let's talk about it as a family.

5:11 It's fine.

5:12 But he is so cute in it and charming and just constantly has this sort of like

5:17 wicked smile on the entire series that I must admit I was very taken with him.

5:22 He was great.

5:23 Anyway, I digress.

5:25 This show though was great and I'll add and I I'm excited to talk about

5:29 this with Ruth that also as someone who was a nerdy girl and you know,

5:35 kind of the ugly stepsister, if you will.

5:37 I mean, I'm not putting myself down like that, but you know,

5:39 I was always like the intellectual not the captain of the cheerleading team.

5:44 I just found so much to relate to in this story

5:47 watching this very awkward young girl who kind of was forgotten about

5:52 in a way find her own footing in my favorite city of London

5:56 and also eventually kind of being the apple of not just one suitor,

6:02 but a number of suitors like her, which then I started thinking,

6:06 maybe I was born in the wrong period.

6:08 Maybe me, little glasses, bustier back in the day,

6:12 you know, you never know, Edith.

6:15 I've got a really funny little story cuz I love

6:17 a bit of any excuse to kind of dress up, Halloween, all that kind of thing.

6:21 Um and I was just thinking we have to get you across and we

6:24 do a kind of like Dangerous Liaisons kind of like cosplay type thing.

6:29 The one of the most ridiculous parties that I've ever

6:33 been to in my life was Boy George's 40th birthday party,

6:37 which was dandies and courtesans, to which I went to this place called Angels,

6:41 which is a big old kind of fancy dress shop in in London

6:46 that most of these shows will probably get a lot of their costumes from.

6:50 Um and when I went full out,

6:52 I literally like created a boobs and a bust that I never do even have

6:59 [laughter] and just like couldn't go to the toilet for the whole time I was

7:01 at the party because this dress had so many layers and corsets and stuff.

7:05 But it was amazing to dress up in one of those things.

7:08 It was Have you ever done it?

7:10 I haven't and as you're talking about it,

7:12 all I can picture is my favorite movie ever, Amadeus.

7:16 And just, you know, those scenes again

7:18 with that beautiful wardrobe and you know,

7:21 we really used to turn some looks out.

7:23 When did things change?

7:24 When the gap opens?

7:25 Like what was the shift for us as a humanity when we stopped,

7:29 you know, lacing up our corsets, which was for the best, I think, in general,

7:33 but When did tracksuits come into basically I blame the tracksuits.

7:38 Like '70s, I think, right?

7:40 Leisure suits?

7:42 [laughter]

7:42 I'm trying to think about when did we

7:43 death of women dressing up like in a kind of I think it

7:46 was the But I like I think it was World War World War II,

7:49 I think is when I'm just going back

7:51 like when did we stop cinching ourselves as women?

7:55 Again, for the I say this as a feminist, but also a little fun.

7:59 I wonder if Ruth Jones likes wearing corsets.

8:02 Let's open with that.

8:03 She has no idea that we've just been

8:04 talking about this, but let's I my first question, she's going to be like,

8:07 "This girl is an idiot." Like,

8:08 "So now the corsets had to hurt." She was great in this though.

8:12 God, she really nailed the part.

8:14 You know, there's something about certain actresses where

8:16 you can just see the judgment in their face.

8:18 Like she doesn't even have to say much, but you just know who she is by the way

8:22 she looks at her loser daughter in her eyes.

8:25 And it's really telling and great.

8:28 It's so I you I just like I I I don't

8:31 think I've ever hated a character she's played in anything she's done.

8:35 And so, it was so weird watching this and just going,

8:38 "You're horrible." Um obviously not Ruth, but her character.

8:42 And just kind of that but that must be fun as well you for her as well in terms

8:46 of that idea of like cuz everything I've I've

8:49 ever seen her in, it's just been she's been hilarious,

8:51 she's been been kind of warm and funny

8:55 and but this was like but she did it really well.

8:58 Well, we have so much to discuss with her.

9:00 I mean, she's going to be I don't think she's ready

9:03 for the amount of engagement we're about to hit her with.

9:07 I think we go straight in with a corset, shall we?

9:09 Yeah, let's do it.

9:14 Well, I know that Edith and I are over the moon.

9:17 I have looked up to this woman since I knew about her.

9:21 She's brilliant and she's one of the stars of the literally addictive new show,

9:26 The Other Bennet Sister.

9:27 I binged it in a single day.

9:29 I don't have much of a life, thank you for asking.

9:31 It is the one and only Ruth Jones joining us.

9:35 Ruth, we are so thrilled to have you.

9:36 You have no idea.

9:37 Aw, thank you so much.

9:39 What a lovely welcome.

9:40 Thank you very, very much.

9:41 I'm I'm very glad to be here.

9:43 The show is fantastic, Ruth.

9:46 It's so good.

9:47 It's it's I I mean, I'm getting such great response to it.

9:50 People seem to love it.

9:52 I think because it's because it's short,

9:55 cuz they're half hours and it really moves along at a pace,

9:59 and it's got a lot of resonance, I think,

10:02 in you know, in the present day, as well.

10:05 So, people and it's funny and it's moving,

10:08 and the central performance by Ella Bruccoleri is just superb.

10:13 So, yeah, it's it's gone down really, really well.

10:16 I'm so glad you brought up the length as the first thing,

10:19 because I have to tell you that I often say,

10:21 maybe there are no editors working in the business anymore,

10:24 because as I see a movie, it's 7 hours long,

10:27 I only have so much time left on this planet,

10:29 Ruth, you know, and I'm going, why are they torturing us?

10:32 And when I started with episode 1 and I saw that it was 30 minutes,

10:35 I'm not kidding you that I said, this I already love it.

10:38 And it made it so much easier to actually

10:40 sit there and just watch the entire thing,

10:42 or however many you could get through.

10:44 It the length alone was a a pleasure, really.

10:48 Oh, that's so nice.

10:49 I mean, it's funny though, isn't it?

10:51 Because our viewing habits have changed so much in the last,

10:56 I guess, five five years, 10 years?

10:59 With being able to binge watch.

11:02 I mean, even that has become a new phrase for the English dictionary.

11:07 Binge watch.

11:09 And so many people I know, because this is available in the UK on iPlayer,

11:15 I think they dropped the first five episodes and then the next five.

11:20 And people were like, oh my gosh,

11:23 I've watched five episodes and I need to watch the other five.

11:26 I'm like, I'm like, I'm 60 in September, right?

11:29 And I remember what it was like on a Sunday night to watch a period drama,

11:35 and you would have to wait.

11:38 And [snorts] there was a real painful pleasure in having

11:42 to wait a whole week before you could watch it.

11:45 But the it it is so interesting how people's habits have changed now,

11:51 and how we want to consume it all in one go.

11:55 And you mentioned Ella, as well.

11:56 I mean, she's just fantastic in this, as are you,

12:00 in a role that we are saying to to Michelle earlier, you know,

12:03 just enjoy have have enjoyed you on screen for so long,

12:08 and and the characters that you've played just fallen in love with.

12:11 This was a different case in terms of like, she's a piece of work, isn't she?

12:16 She's like She's I think she's a delicious monster.

12:20 Mhm, yes.

12:21 She's so you can't help but, I mean,

12:24 this is why I fell in love with the part when I read it.

12:26 You you you can't help but be drawn to her, because she's so awful.

12:31 She's awful.

12:32 And she's harsh and she's cruel, but she's funny.

12:37 Uh and she does there there's something like any sort

12:41 of villain in any comedy or you you go to the pantomime,

12:45 any villain, you're sort of drawn to their villainy

12:49 when they are a funny villain, I think.

12:51 Yeah.

12:52 And what I love about her though is that the end of the series,

12:56 for the no spoiler alerts here,

12:58 but by the end of the series, you do feel like she justifies her existence.

13:06 Mhm.

13:07 and she and she justifies her behavior.

13:10 You know, you you can and it's not

13:12 really a very nice justification, but it's true.

13:14 It was it was to do with the society societal norms

13:19 and and how things were for for uh people for women back then.

13:25 Yeah.

13:26 You she says, I had five daughters,

13:30 all of whom must marry if they were to survive.

13:33 And so in in a lot of ways you could say,

13:36 well, she was being a lioness of a mother,

13:39 because she was protecting them and trying to make sure that they had a future.

13:44 I I do feel though that in terms of her relationship with with Mary,

13:50 who Ella plays, um I always I've said this before, but I think of my Mrs.

13:56 Bennet as an an 18th century estate agent who has five properties to sell,

14:05 [laughter]

14:04 one of which just will not go, no matter how much she reduces the price.

14:09 Yeah.

14:11 [laughter] That's beautiful.

14:12 You know.

14:14 Well, you know, you said that she was a villain, and I agree,

14:18 but I did understand where she was coming from a little bit,

14:20 and especially because, you know, she loses her husband, the great Richard E.

14:23 Grant, who, I mean, the moment I laid eyes on his face,

14:27 I thought, okay, this is a great show.

14:28 I just knew from the second I saw him, you feel like you're in good hands.

14:31 But she loses her husband and then has these daughters.

14:34 And yeah, there was something relatable about her character,

14:37 and I don't know if that's because I myself had a difficult

14:40 mother who happens to be sitting in the room next door,

14:43 so I need to really kind of be careful what I say.

14:46 And the thing is, we loved Ella so much, you know, Mary in this show.

14:51 And I say this is someone who was also kind of the ugly duckling child,

14:55 you know, the smart one, the reader, kind of thing.

14:58 And the whole thing was just very relatable.

15:00 Their dynamic, I think a lot of women, especially watching it play out,

15:04 will find something that will remind them of their own childhood

15:07 and the pressures that they were put under by their own mothers.

15:11 Oh, for sure.

15:11 And I think also, that's why I was saying that I think it resonates today,

15:16 because I've got, you know, nieces and goddaughters who are that kind of age,

15:24 and the pressure that they're put under,

15:26 not [clears throat] just in terms of their physical

15:30 appearance and the influence that, you know, which has been widely documented,

15:35 the influence of the internet and social media on how you're meant to look,

15:42 the way that you're meant to conform, the way that, you know,

15:46 all these young girls have the same eyebrows, for example.

15:51 And I just feel that the what I love

15:55 about Mary as a character is that she is saying, yeah, I I'm the odd one out.

16:01 I'm not part of the I'm not in with the in crowd.

16:05 But she's set becomes, you know, you fall in love with her, because she

16:09 is such an individual and celebrates that individuality.

16:13 And I and I feel that that gives

16:17 reassurance to young girls especially who can go,

16:22 no, actually, so what?

16:24 So do you, I can I can celebrate my my differences and uh

16:29 and I and that's one of the things I really loved about the show, actually.

16:32 Yeah, I think that that's a really brilliant thing

16:34 the show does is like it makes it feel,

16:36 you know, considering those things were happening, you know,

16:39 those those sort of restraints on women,

16:41 but also the expectations of them um back then, and it relates to all that now,

16:47 but through social media and how that's part of the show.

16:50 It's so it's so great she was almost faced with it,

16:53 rather than kind of seeing it through a screen.

16:55 It's just a beautiful way of contemporizing

16:58 those narratives between then and now, and how relevant they still are, really.

17:03 Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

17:05 I think it is shocking when you think back to to how you you know,

17:11 like the the the the the situation that the Bennets find themselves in when Mr.

17:14 Bennet dies, and that their home is

17:16 just automatically going to some distant cousin.

17:19 Yeah, yeah.

17:20 Where's the fairness in that?

17:23 Uh and yet it was totally acceptable and nobody put up a fight about it.

17:29 And it does make you realize how far we have come since then, and I mean,

17:35 when we were filming, I used to say to the girls,

17:39 you know, my daughters, I'd say, [snorts] what do they do all day?

17:45 [laughter] Literally, what do they do?

17:46 They play the piano and they sew.

17:48 I'd love to be able to learn something

17:50 on the piano and and play it for my friends,

17:53 or or to sew, you know, I I I can do um patchwork.

17:56 I've had my my my phases of doing

18:00 [laughter] patchwork, and I found it very, very therapeutic and very relaxing.

18:03 But to do it all bloody day?

18:05 So boring.

18:06 So boring.

18:08 Just the biggest quilt the biggest quilt in London.

18:11 I'm like, This must be Ruth's.

18:13 Yeah, it's really Yeah, yeah.

18:15 Just quilting all day.

18:16 Reading reading all day, I think, is quite a nice prospect.

18:20 But even that, you know, there's only only so much you can read.

18:25 Yeah.

18:26 You know what's funny?

18:26 I'm thinking about the show now, cuz again,

18:28 I you really were kind of the only character that didn't see the beauty in Mary,

18:33 in a way, cuz the family that she well,

18:35 I guess there's one other nemesis that kind of comes

18:37 in later on in the series, but you know,

18:39 she gets kind of taken in by this family in London,

18:42 who are so over, above and beyond kind to her.

18:46 And then all these like handsome suitors come into the house,

18:49 and you know, she's a very plain,

18:51 it's part of the character, plain-looking girl.

18:52 She's not there to be a beauty or anything.

18:54 And they're all taken by her, and it's very refreshing to watch people

18:59 kind of not judge her by her physicality and just accept her right away,

19:03 except for you, obviously.

19:07 [laughter]

19:06 You know, it's it's very refreshing to watch that, actually, as a as a series.

19:10 Because I think what it's doing is pointing out the fact that it's

19:16 about chemistry and about how you

19:19 you react to somebody to somebody's personality.

19:23 I personally, I would always I be attracted to somebody who was funny.

19:29 And and I and I just think, you know,

19:31 that these two guys have come into Mary's life,

19:36 and they [snorts] are it is refreshing for them.

19:39 It is refreshing them.

19:41 And I love how she reacts to them, as well.

19:43 Yeah.

19:44 Because she doesn't for one minute think it.

19:46 Yeah, she doesn't for one minute think, um oh oh, they find me attractive.

19:51 She doesn't she can't see her own utter beauty.

19:56 She can't see it.

19:57 And I think from Mrs.

19:59 Bennet's point of view, she is an inconvenience because she will not conform.

20:04 And you know, it's it's painful when she tries to make her wear

20:10 things and and to brush her hair and that there's something so

20:14 horrible about that scene when she's brushing her hair to sort of literally

20:19 groom her daughter to make her attractive to a man who's you know,

20:26 not particularly Well, actually he's very funny.

20:30 But that aside, um Yeah.

20:32 Collins, you know, he's not a great catch

20:35 in terms of the Darcys of that world, you know?

20:38 Yeah.

20:38 There's such a beautiful physical storytelling going on with the show

20:42 which I I loved like it's like and Ella's so

20:46 great at it with even things like you talked about

20:48 the optometrist with the glasses when she gets the glasses they're

20:51 like a they're like a little kind of mask almost

20:53 in a way and the the physical faces that she pulls

20:56 and there's just some really beautiful physical comedy in the show

21:00 as well that that happens particularly I think with Ella.

21:03 It's brilliant.

21:04 Oh, I agree.

21:06 And when we used to do scenes together,

21:09 I often had to apologize to Ella afterwards.

21:11 I said, "I'm so sorry.

21:12 I'm such a[ __] I'm really [laughter] sorry."

21:15 And she was going to say, "It's fine.

21:17 It's fine." But what I used to love was

21:19 watching the way she she works is quite extraordinary.

21:23 She would always take herself off and sit quietly.

21:26 She would join, you know,

21:27 she would be she would be sociable with with everybody,

21:29 but she was so focused on her character.

21:33 Always had her script with her, was always working, all the time working.

21:38 And often the scenes that I was in with her I

21:43 don't think I because I suppose I was in my character.

21:46 Yeah.

21:47 Yeah.

21:47 I often didn't realize it was only when I saw

21:49 it on screen her amazing comedy timing and her expressions were

21:57 just beautiful to watch because she's she has the heart

22:01 and she has she can pull at the heartstrings and the emotions,

22:05 but her her comedy timing was was was superb.

22:09 And she's got real funny bones.

22:11 We wanted to ask you initially the first question was going to be

22:13 about corsets because we were discussing we we think we like them.

22:18 We were saying that, you know, there is something fun as a woman

22:22 On an occasion, not all the time.

22:25 No, no, no, but you know,

22:26 something about the idea of being able to like not just reshape yourself,

22:29 but getting dressed up like that.

22:30 Was that must have been a very fun part of the doing the show?

22:33 It's interesting actually because I think some

22:34 of the girls didn't like wearing corsets, but I absolutely loved it.

22:38 And I don't know if it's because of being a woman

22:41 of a certain age with things attending to go south and you know,

22:46 you need a little bit of help.

22:48 Uh but I found it terribly freeing actually to wear a corset.

22:53 It was it really helped me with the character because it added to that sense

22:58 of her being this basically like a big sailing ship that comes into the room.

23:05 [laughter] And also because of what it does

23:07 to your bust and it really pushes the puppies up,

23:11 you just feel like oh, it it it it tapped into Mrs.

23:17 Bennet's sexuality and how she's so vain and so narcissistic

23:24 but she thinks that she is really still very attractive.

23:28 And I think she was in her younger days.

23:30 I think she was.

23:31 But I think she still thinks that.

23:33 So we did a couple of improvisations which I don't think

23:37 I don't think they made it actually into the final cut,

23:40 but I think it was when Mrs.

23:42 Bennet had arranged for some suitors to come to court Mary.

23:47 Basically Mrs.

23:48 Bennet was flirting with the suitors.

23:51 Mhm.

23:52 And I just loved that and it it was it really was helped by the corset and just

23:56 being able to sort of make you sit

23:58 in a certain way and carry yourself in a certain way.

24:02 And to have these, you know,

24:03 these great big bosoms just there like a couple of weapons,

24:09 you know what I mean?

24:10 Yeah.

24:11 battle with.

24:12 Yeah.

24:12 There is a bit of that in cuz there's a cuz

24:14 there's a really funny cuz she's she's flirting with one of them

24:17 on like I think on the couch and Mary's just sat like

24:19 on a chair on her own just kind of like rolling her eyes.

24:22 Yes.

24:23 Yes.

24:24 So great.

24:24 Been in that sequence, yeah.

24:26 So great.

24:27 Uh but Nessa like a bit of a corset, did she know occasionally?

24:31 Um a slightly different corset, but uh Yeah, she didn't well,

24:36 she did actually on her wedding I think she

24:39 wore a couple of both of her wedding days.

24:42 It was a type of corset.

24:43 It was more of a a bodice actually.

24:46 Yeah.

24:47 Um she certainly liked to to get the girls out, definitely.

24:53 [laughter] I mean, who doesn't?

24:54 You know, if you have them That's the thing.

24:56 It's like we might as well I you're really making me think that I need

24:59 to go on Amazon and buy like a fabulous

25:01 like Brazilian corset just to lift them up.

25:03 I'm also not young.

25:04 I need something to happen to me.

25:06 Also, I don't [laughter] even I don't even think you need to have big

25:10 boobs because you just need it just because it helps you in that department.

25:15 No, I have them.

25:16 They just need the they need the moral support.

25:19 I've got them.

25:20 They're just um they're losing the volume, put it that way.

25:23 And we don't know each other well enough,

25:24 but yes, I I could use some help, Ruth.

25:27 [laughter] Um I have to bring something up and just to shift gears

25:29 a little bit because when I found out you were coming on the show,

25:32 I was over the moon because your performance on one of my favorite I'm

25:37 going to say a comedy that literally shaped me as a comedian is Nighty Night.

25:42 And I remember when a friend of mine gave me this DVD,

25:46 that's how long ago this was.

25:47 And a friend who lived in London and she was like,

25:49 "You have to watch this show." I had never heard of it.

25:51 A, I felt so cool that as an American I had heard of this show.

25:55 And B, when I watched it,

25:56 I just saw the funniest women I had ever seen in my life

26:00 putting on literally one of the funniest shows to ever exist.

26:04 I have a few questions.

26:05 One is was this show big in England or was

26:08 this still even there kind of an underground success?

26:10 Cuz for me it's like it has to be one

26:13 of the funniest things ever created and you are brilliant on it, Ruth.

26:17 You know that.

26:17 Oh, thank you.

26:19 Well, so a little bit of background.

26:21 Julia Davis and I met each other in 1992.

26:26 We were both in an improvised comedy group in Bath called More Fool Us.

26:31 And and she also became friendly with Rob Brydon and she and Rob

26:35 went on to write I don't know if have you ever seen Human Remains?

26:40 I haven't, no.

26:41 Oh, well, I mean, if you like Nighty Night, you'll you'll love it.

26:44 Oh, and I would die for Rob Brydon by the way.

26:46 Like one of the other funniest people ever.

26:48 Yeah.

26:48 It's a really really interesting well, it's a it's very very funny,

26:54 but it's interesting to watch Rob in that because he's

26:57 doing stuff that I've never seen had never seen him do.

27:00 You know, he he he he they they play couples.

27:03 It's a series of six episodes where they they play different couples.

27:07 So there's like a swinging couple from Birmingham

27:09 for example and you know, they who run a B&B.

27:13 It's great.

27:14 Um so so through that then we we ended up Julia had this idea and then

27:19 we did quite a lot of improv to to work out the scripts and stuff.

27:23 But we still to this day text each other sometimes as Jill and Linda.

27:27 Like I remember I was coming back from India and I had

27:30 to go through um this is about I don't know, about 8 years ago.

27:34 And I had to go through one of those scanners.

27:37 And I just sent to this long message as Linda going,

27:39 "Jill, Jill, I've just gone through the scanner.

27:44 [laughter] There's a lot of explosives on me.

27:45 I know they'll put me in jail.

27:47 Yeah, can you help me?" And but but we've always loved doing those characters.

27:52 But what I I found [snorts] incredible about the show

27:55 cuz that was another BBC Three show that came out.

27:58 And it was very very cult viewing.

28:02 And I think I I met somebody the other night

28:05 and I always have immense respect for people when they tell me

28:09 that the favorite thing they've seen me in is Nighty Night because

28:13 I just think it was so good and so different and so daring.

28:18 And we we just no way we would be able to make that today.

28:22 I was just going to ask.

28:23 There's literally no way and it makes me sad that somehow as a society

28:28 and it's here in the US obviously

28:29 too that we've like devolved almost where wait,

28:32 we were on the cusp of something so amazing and edgy and brilliant

28:37 and just kind of like no limits on what could be said or done.

28:41 And yet now you're absolutely right, they could never make it.

28:44 No, they couldn't.

28:45 And and it's incredibly popular with gay men.

28:48 Oh, it explains everything.

28:51 Yeah, I went to a [laughter] fund fundraiser a few

28:55 years ago for Elton John's uh charity AIDS charity.

29:00 Mhm.

29:00 And George Michael was it was a concert George Michael was putting on.

29:04 And I was fortunate enough at the end we

29:06 had a dinner and I sat next to George Michael.

29:09 Oh my god.

29:11 He just raved about Nighty Night.

29:15 He just wanted that's all he wanted to talk about was Nighty Night.

29:18 And I thought, "Well, that is praise indeed." Can we get like a a reboot or

29:25 [laughter]

29:24 Well, we we have talked about it.

29:26 I mean, it's Julia's show.

29:27 It's Julia's baby, but I would love to play Linda again.

29:31 I would love to.

29:33 Yeah.

29:33 It would be great.

29:34 The makeup alone.

29:35 I mean, just I mean, please for us do it.

29:38 We need it.

29:41 [laughter]

29:40 Is is it nice to be in stuff as well like with with this with the with the other

29:45 Bennet sister where you're or do you kind of when you're writing something,

29:49 do you know what I mean?

29:50 When you're involved behind the scenes in creating

29:52 characters and stories and relationships and stuff,

29:54 is it is it nice to kind of not have

29:57 that responsibility or do you kind of like I don't know.

30:00 Is I guess there's collaboration along the way as well, you know,

30:03 in terms of people are open to your thoughts

30:04 and what you think a character is doing and, you know,

30:08 I think because I've been on the other side,

30:10 so I uh created a series for Sky called Stella which uh

30:16 we did 58 episodes of and it was set in the valley 58?

30:21 Oh my god.

30:23 Yeah.

30:22 Yeah, we did we did two Christmas specials.

30:26 And um because of being on the other side

30:30 of that of of creating it and writing it and the same

30:33 with Gavin and Stacey um I was very sensitive to the fact

30:38 that if anybody wanted to change lines or you know,

30:43 or offered up suggestions I would always listen to it, but I also felt like,

30:50 well, no, I kind of worked hard on that dialogue to get that as it was.

30:54 I mean, sometimes other people's suggestions were absolutely right.

30:58 But often I felt like, mm, no, this is these are the lines.

31:04 Please will you say the lines?

31:07 [laughter] So because I was aware of that I I feel

31:08 very sensitive to it the other way around as well.

31:10 So Sarah Quintrell, who did the uh screen

31:15 adaptation for The Other Bennet Sister, was always very,

31:18 very careful if I if I wanted

31:22 to and it wasn't like changing a line significantly.

31:25 It might have been a little tweak here and there,

31:26 but I always checked with her and she was always on set anyway, which was great.

31:32 Because I because it's such a precious thing

31:34 as a writer you you want to be respected.

31:38 I've been in a position where I think the second thing that I wrote,

31:40 which was a TV an episode for for something

31:43 on ITV and I went to the read-through

31:46 and this actress just really kind of had really had

31:51 a go at me about my character wouldn't say this.

31:55 My character There's no way my character would would would

31:57 I always remember it had had an Aga in it,

31:59 you know, one of those cookers, like the old-fashioned farmhouse cookers.

32:04 My character wouldn't know what an Aga was.

32:06 She wouldn't know And and it And I And I was mortified.

32:09 So I'm always very sensitive to that.

32:11 Having said that, Sarah was always uh very uh open

32:16 to discussing lines if if things were to be changed,

32:20 but they were tiny little things.

32:21 The only thing I did change in the in The Other

32:23 Bennet Sister was I I had that line I said,

32:28 "Oh, please, can I say a trifle?" And it was um

32:31 "He's not here to be passed around like a sherry trifle." [laughter]

32:37 I did ask if I could say that.

32:38 I did In fact, I think I I sneakily I

32:40 put it in the read-through to see if it worked.

32:43 [laughter] Now, again, we as Americans obviously know James Corden.

32:47 He had his long-running uh late-night show here.

32:50 It is kind of amazing how he was able to cross

32:53 the pond and create success here and it's fairly rare,

32:57 I think, for many most English comedians, I think,

33:00 to see the success that he had here.

33:02 Did you know when you were making Gavin and Stacey like,

33:04 this is an international talent?

33:06 I mean, this is clearly he's a brilliant stage actor, singer.

33:09 He does it all.

33:10 Cats?

33:10 Did you see Cats?

33:11 I mean, forget it, Ruth.

33:12 He does it all.

33:15 [laughter] He's He's just He only left my house about half an hour ago.

33:19 That's so funny.

33:19 Yes.

33:20 we live We're writing together at the moment,

33:22 so Yeah, so James and I met on Fat Friends,

33:25 which was Kay Mellor's series about a slimming club back in the early

33:29 2000s and he just was always He was always a really positive force.

33:34 That was the thing.

33:35 He was always a positive force in a room.

33:37 He was always ready to laugh.

33:39 He was al- always ready to have fun.

33:41 But he was always an incredible storyteller.

33:45 So he had the ability to hold the audience around him of, you know,

33:50 people that he was working with and we

33:51 just I always remember Alison Steadman saying,

33:54 "You You should do stand-up because you just are at ease

33:58 with that performance level." And I think

34:00 because he he really is multi-talented, James.

34:03 He's He is multi-talented.

34:04 He's an incredible writer.

34:07 He can sing.

34:08 He can dance.

34:09 He can interview people and he's natu- naturally curious.

34:14 So I think that adds to it why he became so good on a chat show.

34:21 But also his chat show was so much more than a chat show, wasn't it?

34:23 Like the the amount of the the skill that he

34:27 had in putting the the different features into it Mhm.

34:30 was amazing and I went to watch it went to watch him

34:33 record it when we were writing the Gavin and the 2019 special.

34:38 I went over to LA and watched him and it was an amazing to watch.

34:42 But you know, I I think it was a very brave step to go

34:46 to the States because in Britain we like to pull people down and go,

34:52 "Oh, who does he think he is?" Yeah.

34:54 Uh and America is always, I think, very welcoming and much more I don't know.

35:01 I I think ready Give it a go attitude, isn't it?

35:04 Yeah, exactly.

35:05 Exactly.

35:06 Uh so and I think he did amazingly and I I watched the last of his shows.

35:11 I watched it and I it was very emotional cuz

35:14 it was like eight years he was there, you know?

35:16 I prefer the English way.

35:18 I like bringing people down.

35:19 Sometimes they need it.

35:20 [laughter] And uh you know, I love America, but I'm I'm sick of it a little bit.

35:24 You know, it's nice to have some edge sometimes, which Yeah.

35:27 Yeah, sure.

35:28 You've been to LA, you know how it is.

35:30 It's so fake.

35:31 You get there.

35:31 Did you Have you ever been to Erewhon?

35:32 Do you ever walk into Erewhon as a Welsh woman and think,

35:35 "What the hell is going on here?" Oh, no, but I did go to Is it Bristol Market?

35:39 Oh, Bristol Farms, yes.

35:40 Bristol Farms.

35:42 I mean, that was that was But I did

35:43 get a couple of really good carrier bags from there, which I've still got.

35:47 I still use them.

35:50 [laughter] Now we're getting somewhere.

35:51 Yes, go on.

35:52 Yeah, they were they were amazing.

35:54 They And they're insulated and uh and I still use them to this day.

36:00 I'm sure because the Waitrose bags for me are like Hermes quality.

36:04 Those are my Birkins.

36:06 The Waitrose like Lulu Guinness bags.

36:08 It's what I can afford.

36:09 They're £10.

36:09 I love them.

36:10 Anyway.

36:12 I love that.

36:13 I did see Ruth I did see James on Who was he chatting to?

36:17 Uh Chris Evans, actually, a little while ago and he said that you guys were

36:20 work- writing together and playing some and playing brother and sister.

36:24 I was like so excited cuz that relationship of you two creating things is

36:28 just really special and it's been it's been so rewarding for us, you know,

36:32 as as fans with with what you've created and and performed as well,

36:37 you know, so it's exciting to know

36:38 that you're working on something you together.

36:40 we're writing for Apple and it's about

36:43 a choir and we are playing brother and sister.

36:47 Amazing.

36:47 Um and we're kind of we're doing well.

36:50 We've got It's eight episodes.

36:51 We're about halfway through episode eight now, so we're getting there.

36:57 Did you just like sit around a table

36:59 and just throw ideas around and just kind of Yeah, basically.

37:02 We're not very We're not very grown-up as writers.

37:05 We don't have like [laughter]

37:07 proper plan or you know, or come up with a deck or anything like that.

37:11 We We tend to write quite instinctively, I think.

37:15 Mhm.

37:15 Um but it works.

37:17 It works.

37:18 Yeah, it seems to.

37:19 I mean, who knows?

37:20 We Listen, we know when people are going to always go, "Oh,

37:25 it's not like Gavin and Stacey." But then nothing ever will,

37:29 you know, you can't replicate the same thing.

37:34 You know, you just can't.

37:35 If you have something successful it's going to be very hard to to top it.

37:39 Yeah.

37:40 But all we can do is stay true

37:41 to what we write and the characters that we create.

37:45 We love character character-led scripts and worlds and we love worlds

37:52 that have got heart in them and and uh and emotion and comedy.

37:57 So hopefully we'll come up with that.

37:59 So are you guys I assume James is singing in this?

38:02 Is this like yet another vehicle to hear his gift?

38:05 She's got a voice.

38:06 And Ruth?

38:07 No, I I'm That's my question.

38:08 Are you an amazing sing- I'd love to hear this as a singer myself.

38:11 I love music.

38:13 Well, I know I I can hold a tune.

38:15 I was in Sister Act, the musical, on stage.

38:19 That's amazing.

38:19 Did you ever meet Whoopi when you were doing it?

38:21 No, because she did it a few years ago in the UK,

38:27 I think, or she was going to and then COVID happened.

38:30 Um I can't remember what what the order was, but no,

38:34 I did it at last year at the Oh, no,

38:36 2024 at the Dominion Theatre and I played Mother Superior.

38:39 Oh my god.

38:40 was It was It was the most scary thing I've done,

38:44 but so rewarding and I loved it.

38:47 And do you know what?

38:47 I I sometimes really indulge myself and listen to the soundtrack and I go,

38:52 "I can't believe I used to sing like that." [laughter] What an exciting thing.

38:57 Oh my god.

38:58 Yeah.

38:59 Quickly going back just before we finish that when

39:01 you talked about BBC Three and how at the time

39:04 it was such a brilliant platform for just really left-field

39:11 comedy or just comedy that was different to, you know,

39:14 kind of what you'd see on on other sort of terrestrial channels at the time,

39:18 whether it be The Mighty Boosh or, you know,

39:20 it was like there's there's nothing really like that now that's given kind

39:25 of new comedy and new writers the chance to try out stuff, really, is there?

39:31 Well, I suppose what we've got now, which we didn't have back then,

39:34 is so many more outlets in terms of social media Yeah.

39:39 I said go out and their own YouTube channel

39:41 or whatever and do and put stuff out there Yeah.

39:44 without having to go through an official channel.

39:47 But BBC, I mean BBC Three's back again, of course,

39:49 cuz it was it was taken off for for years.

39:53 And I I remember being one of the people that said, "No,

39:56 don't take BBC Three away." Um and James was was

40:01 the opposite to me cuz he was sort of saying,

40:03 "Well, this is how our viewing habits are

40:06 changing now and younger people are not watching TV.

40:09 They are looking at stuff on their phones or you know,

40:12 they're they're not doing the traditional way

40:15 of what TV uh viewing." But back then, you know, Stuart Murphy,

40:20 who was the head of the the channel,

40:22 when you think about the programs that came through there,

40:24 well, Nighty Night was on there, uh Mighty Boosh, um Little Britain.

40:29 Yeah.

40:30 Some really great comedies.

40:32 Formative comedies, honestly.

40:34 Yeah, that started and Stuart I will always be grateful

40:37 for because he went on to Gavin and Stacey, didn't he?

40:43 did he Well, he was Gavin and Stacey.

40:46 So he he commissioned it but it was then for BBC Three.

40:51 But then after that, he went to Sky and he commissioned Stella.

40:55 So I'm always grateful to Stuart.

40:57 He uh he And he actually sent us this which James and I

41:02 wrote a book about Gavin and Stacey about our journey with it

41:05 and we we we had the we put in it the email from Stuart

41:09 where he said we'd we'd sent him the treatment and he actually said,

41:14 "I think this could be one of the best things

41:16 BBC Three may ever makes." And then we were like,

41:20 Um but yeah, so we've always held onto that.

41:23 Ruth, I just uh stalked you on Instagram, forgive me.

41:26 And I noticed in your bio you say you're a nap enthusiast.

41:30 I have to ask an expert here.

41:33 Give me some tips.

41:34 What are we doing?

41:34 Are we doing lavender sachets?

41:36 Are we dimming the lights?

41:38 Counting to 10?

41:39 Like how does one in the middle of the day stop down, take a nap?

41:43 What are your tips?

41:44 Oh, well, for a start, James and I are massive nappers.

41:47 We have to nap.

41:48 We had a nap this afternoon.

41:50 Really?

41:51 I think Same bed?

41:52 Same bed or separate rooms?

41:53 L-shaped sofa which is really comfortable.

41:57 What a e-chair.

42:01 [laughter] Head to foot?

42:01 How are we Go on.

42:02 Yeah, it was foot to foot.

42:04 Okay.

42:06 [laughter] We always um I The one thing I would say as a little tip for the nap,

42:10 when you start off the nap, you think, "Oh, it's afternoon.

42:14 I'm I feel okay.

42:14 My temperature feels fine.

42:16 I'm I'm just ready." But you will always get a bit cold.

42:19 So always have, even if it's a thin blanket, have something nearby to cover you.

42:25 If you can get an eye mask, great, if it's the middle of the day.

42:30 But there is nothing like it.

42:32 When I'm filming, there's a there's quite a trend now to do a rolling day,

42:37 a rolling film day so that they can finish early.

42:40 And it means you don't get your hour's lunch.

42:42 I now am like, I have to have my hour.

42:46 Because what I do, I have it all planned.

42:48 I wolf down my lunch really, really quick.

42:52 [laughter] And then I've always got a good, solid half an hour and I am out like

42:56 a light and I'm ready for the afternoon then.

42:59 God, that is a good discipline there is.

43:02 I don't have the discipline for that.

43:04 I actually took a nap yesterday that ruined my week.

43:06 Like I think I overdid it, slept 2 hours, woke up with a splitting headache.

43:10 I also am in a It's too long.

43:12 I'm an idiot.

43:12 But I'm also staying in my mom and dad's house where it's about 78° F.

43:16 I don't know in Celsius what that is.

43:18 I wake up boiling hot like I'm going through the change.

43:20 It's happening to me.

43:21 Sweating, pools of It's not a good situation.

43:23 So that's why I wanted your tips.

43:24 Okay, thin blanky.

43:26 And also don't leave it too late to nap.

43:29 You know, it's there's a sort of a an optimal time for the nap.

43:33 You can't really nap You certainly can't nap after 4:00.

43:37 I think 3:30's pushing it.

43:39 Wow.

43:39 Yeah, this is great.

43:40 I'm so glad I have 1:30 as optimum, I think.

43:43 Yeah.

43:43 Yeah.

43:45 So is there anything that you would like to not necessarily that you've

43:48 been in but something that you've been a fan of in TV

43:51 and like to see it kind of back on on our screens

43:54 because that was the beauty of with Gavin and Stacey's like there was,

43:57 you know, we had different moments where we thought

43:59 it was over and then you guys would come back

44:01 with more for us because there was so much

44:02 demand for it and just so much love for it.

44:05 So yeah, anything you'd love to revive?

44:07 Well, it's funny because I was talking to my friend

44:09 the other day about children's TV from when we were growing up.

44:13 So and how much, you know, we have all this nostalgia for it.

44:17 But if you Google it on YouTube, it's so awful and boring.

44:21 Like there was one called Mary, Mungo and Midge.

44:24 And I watched it the other day and it was it was all it's so [laughter]

44:28 I've got I've got four four grandchildren now and it's the thought of putting

44:32 them in front of that, they they would just not be remotely interested.

44:38 Um I and I used to love One of the ones I loved was The Wombles.

44:41 I love Wombles.

44:43 I know all the words Underground, overground, Wombling free.

44:48 The Wombles of Wimbledon common are we.

44:54 [laughter] Nap later and awesome News where we find

44:56 they were ahead of their time because they were into recycling.

45:00 [laughter] Wow.

45:00 Recycling.

45:01 Our little Greta Thunbergs.

45:03 We love it.

45:03 Yeah.

45:06 [laughter] Little funny Greta Thunberg.

45:08 Yeah.

45:09 Um but the um I don't know.

45:12 I loved some of the old detective series like Prime Suspect and Cracker.

45:19 Mhm.

45:20 I'd love to play Robbie Coltrane's part.

45:24 [sighs and gasps] But probably as Robbie Coltrane.

45:25 I'd like to be [laughter] I'd like to do it as a man.

45:29 Mhm.

45:30 I always had this idea for a for a a comedy, well, yeah,

45:35 for a for a a detective, a TV detective who had a very weak stomach.

45:41 And so because you know, whenever they go to the site of the murder,

45:45 they're [laughter] looking at it and going All right.

45:49 That looks like Was it done with the with a bludgeon?

45:51 Yeah, and they're talking like this.

45:53 I just think, you know, most normal people, like if it was me,

45:56 I would approach the site of the death and I would just be going Yeah.

46:03 [laughter]

46:04 Well, listen, Ruth, you are I know Edith feels this way, I feel this way.

46:09 You've lived up to every expectation and it was fairly high,

46:12 I think, for both of us.

46:13 But you are so lovely, so funny and so brilliantly talented in every

46:18 direction that uh no words can do you justice.

46:21 The Other Bennet Sister, you are fabulous on it.

46:23 It is an addictive show.

46:25 Everybody listening, please take it from me.

46:27 I I know that you think I'm paid to say this.

46:29 I would not be saying it if I didn't feel it.

46:31 It is unbelievably entertaining and just

46:34 a huge congratulations on it and everything else.

46:36 Thank you so much and I and I hope that American audiences enjoy

46:41 it as much as it seems [music] to be being enjoyed in the UK.

46:44 It's certainly a little bit of light relief from everything

46:48 else that's going on in the world at the moment.

46:50 So yes, I hope you enjoy.

46:52 Thanks so much, Ruth.

46:53 Take care.

46:54 Thanks for your time.

46:56 Bye, Ruth.

46:56 It was so nice to meet you.

46:57 Have a great day.

46:58 Bye.

47:05 You've been listening to On the Box hosted by Edith Bowman and Michelle Collins.

47:10 The music was by Dario Forzato and Canio Claudio Tristano,

47:14 courtesy of 411 Music.

47:17 The mix engineer was Orly Adlington.

47:20 The production coordinator was Caroline Barlow.

47:23 The production manager was Mabel Finnegan Wright.

47:25 The production [music] executive was Ian Hayden.

47:28 The executive producers for BritBox are Alana McGahi [music] and Diane Rubino.

47:32 The executive producer for BBC Studios is Pete Strauss.

47:36 The producer was Sajid Cardinal.

47:39 On the Box is a BBC Studios production for BritBox.