Stretching Is Overrated (Here’s What Actually Works) w/ Lucas Hardie

0:00 What would be two or three simple movements that are

0:04 traditional strength exercises that could help improve their range?

0:08 Well, for lower body, I actually like I just call them stances.

0:12 So, in martial arts, they practice a lot of fundamental stance,

0:16 bow stance and horse stance, and it looks similar to a sumo squat.

0:21 And when it comes to the lower body,

0:23 I'll I'll really lean into those two stances.

0:25 I've even found a lot of individuals that train

0:28 the horse stance up to a high level become quite

0:32 the strength and conditioning world, the fitness world right now.

0:35 I'll look at something like Athlean-X, and I'll sort of like it triggers me,

0:39 but at the same time I'm like, you know what?

0:41 A lot of people they benefit from that first step into fitness.

0:45 And I guess my question was going to be is like,

0:47 what do you see as like where they've gone wrong?

0:52 I think they just haven't done enough work in the areas that they talk

0:56 about like they know disciplines of training

0:59 like they've done it and they haven't.

1:01 I didn't really foster a solid opinion

1:03 about stretching and flexibility until I did it

1:07 for a long time and studied the different worlds

1:09 and kind of came up with my own conclusions,

1:11 and I don't think enough coaches spend the time to do that echoing what

1:16 has been said by other people that we probably look up to, and that's fine,

1:20 but I think it's important to recognize that if

1:23 We're going to dive into everything functional strength,

1:26 and we're going to start right now.

1:29 I was privileged enough to sit down with Lucas Hardy, aka Range of Strength.

1:34 And one of the coolest parts about this entire podcast is that Lucas talks

1:39 through his entire career of training and what it meant to be a really,

1:42 really strong powerlifter, but not have functional mobility.

1:46 And the crazy part is when we're saying functional,

1:50 when we're saying mobile, Lucas takes us to a whole 'nother level.

1:55 He's talking splits.

1:56 He's talking about crazy mobility with 400 plus pounds on his back.

2:01 We're not talking about some fufu guru with functional strength.

2:05 We're talking about the real deal functional strength slash functional mobility.

2:09 Get your notebook ready because we're going to go deep into mobility.

2:12 Coaches, we are hosting a strength and conditioning seminar

2:15 here in Pennsylvania June 5th and June 6th with Dr.

2:19 Kristof Kipp, Dr.

2:21 Ken Clark, Will Rotell, and myself.

2:24 This is for strength coaches and sport coaches alike and the first

2:28 30 that sign up are going to get 400 bucks off.

2:32 This thing is going to be awesome.

2:34 Now, let's get to the podcast.

2:36 Okay, Lucas, so I'm 42 years old.

2:38 I've I've got four kids.

2:40 I've trained since essentially I was like 11, 12 years old with my dad.

2:44 Uh I want to know as someone who's getting older

2:48 and even as I take myself so much seriously as an athlete,

2:53 why should I be training full range of motion with exercises?

2:57 Like should I be I You know, some people might say like, "Oh,

3:01 you should try and protect your joints." I guess

3:02 my big question to you as like the range

3:06 guy is why does full range of motion make

3:10 sense for strength training and and building muscle mass?

3:16 I'm glad you opened up the way you did

3:17 because you present that uh other aspect of life which,

3:21 you know, 42, you're a father of four.

3:24 Uh there's a lot more to this world besides lifting barbells even

3:28 though sometimes I I often get blocked by that and that's my priority.

3:33 Uh you know, I was a competitive powerlifter myself when I made the transition

3:38 to get into this stuff and for me it was kind of like enough is enough.

3:41 Uh I need to make a change and we had just had twins.

3:44 So, uh I had a two-year-old at the time.

3:47 Uh still competing competitively in powerlifting and I must have came across

3:52 like my 50th injury that like uh it was pretty pretty bad.

3:55 And uh we had twins, and I'm like, you know, what what am I doing this for?

4:00 And and I I want to be able to move on the ground with them.

4:02 I want to be able to show them cool things.

4:04 I want to get back to moving like I want to move.

4:09 So, for me, that kind of was the transitional moment where I was like, "Okay,

4:13 I got to figure this stuff out." Uh

4:15 as a strength coach for the last 21 years now,

4:19 I've And I'm sure you've been there, too.

4:20 We've seen the evolution of mobility training.

4:24 Like, when I started, there wasn't even a mobility training.

4:26 There was nothing.

4:27 We just trained people.

4:28 We got them strong, got them athletic,

4:31 or helped them lose weight, whatever the goal was.

4:34 But then, you know, there was this new mobility training.

4:37 Everyone wanted to start doing things that were a little

4:39 more outside of what they were capable of, I think,

4:42 because of the growth of CrossFit, things like that, um across the industry.

4:46 And uh you know, that exposure to mobility training

4:50 when it first came out didn't really appeal to me.

4:53 And uh I think there was obviously, even still, it's still very new.

4:58 And there's still a lot of it that is evolving.

5:00 We're still trying to figure out this stuff.

5:02 Like, what what should we actually care about?

5:04 Do we have to extend a session for an hour on top

5:08 of what we already are trying to do to get gains?

5:09 Or, you know, do we just change a few things here and there?

5:13 So, I think like for me,

5:16 uh having kind of gone through that process and now in this kind

5:20 of deciding moment where I'm pretty beat up and broken in my early 30s,

5:25 I think I was just turning 30.

5:27 I just started looking in places I haven't before, man.

5:30 And uh just before we started the call, I said,

5:33 you know, I'd I'd realized you're a have a throwing background.

5:37 And uh that really appeals to me at the moment

5:39 because there's a lot of unconventional applications to training there.

5:43 And I've always kind of been like that anyway,

5:45 kind of open-minded to exploring some of these different ideas,

5:49 which is why I got into powerlifting.

5:51 I think they were the only ones in the gym doing

5:53 everything opposite to uh what we were being told to do.

5:58 Uh and then, you know, for me it was like looking where I haven't before.

6:01 So, I did start kind of going down, I think,

6:04 the traditional rabbit hole of like, "I'm going to start doing some yoga.

6:08 I'm going to start, you know,

6:10 uh doing more mobility work." And for that first year or so there

6:15 where I was really like committing to it and devoting myself to the practice,

6:19 I I just didn't really see any change.

6:22 I still had a lot of limitations in my flexibility.

6:25 Started to think of about it being more of a genetic

6:27 thing and maybe I was kind of too late for this.

6:30 Uh and then someone introduced me to gymnastics strength training,

6:34 more calisthenics, I guess you would call it,

6:36 but a book called uh Overcoming Gravity, it was called, by Steve Low.

6:40 That really kind of like changed my perspective

6:43 on uh what bodyweight training could be.

6:46 And it got me a little more excited about learning

6:49 that side of training rather than just trying to change my mobility.

6:52 I was like, "Okay, I'm going to start working on some

6:54 bodyweight strength stuff and and figuring out a lot of these things

6:57 I don't know in gymnastics." And that actually opened up

7:00 my eyes more to what mobility and flexibility development could be.

7:06 Uh I connected with Coach Christopher Sum Summer during that time.

7:10 So, he is uh head coach and owner of Gymnastic Bodies.

7:15 This was like the early uh 2010s, around there,

7:19 around that time, gymnastics strength training was really taking off.

7:23 And it was being presented, I think,

7:24 in a way where it was more accessible to everyday person.

7:28 You don't need to be able to do a planche to start training gymnastics,

7:30 or you don't need all these crazy prerequisites.

7:34 But he he really opened my mind up to more

7:36 of this uh weighted mobility and weighted flexibility approach,

7:39 using weight to change range of motion.

7:42 And it really got my mind thinking and, you know,

7:45 applying a lot of what I already knew

7:47 to powerlifting around training range of motion and developing flexibility.

7:52 So, that kind of leads us to where we are today.

7:56 I'm still diving down those rabbit holes.

7:59 Uh old-time strength training has been another one um

8:02 that I've been really getting into over the years.

8:05 Uh and and for me it's like it got to a point where I started becoming so

8:11 mobile and flexible at my age and my size

8:15 that everyone was reaching out to me for that.

8:18 And I was kind of a little conflicted at the time.

8:20 I don't know if you've had this before,

8:21 but you're like I I I really identify myself as a strength coach by heart.

8:25 Uh you know, and that's kind of where I

8:26 come from, but then that next thing you know,

8:28 everyone's like, "I want to improve my flexibility and mobility.

8:30 Can you help me?" And this really

8:33 Yeah, it's kind of sent me to developing range of strength.

8:36 And the big question I had to answer was

8:39 how can we do this without removing ourselves so

8:42 much from the things that we love doing because

8:45 I experienced that even coming around to, you know,

8:49 finding the way I like to train now.

8:51 I I was doing all of these like really drawn-out mobility sessions,

8:55 and I was like, "Okay,

8:56 I'm going to take a break from strength training." And then,

8:59 you know, it was like almost too much,

9:00 and a lot of people really battle with that is like,

9:02 "How much do you have to give up to really get back

9:05 and and improve your range of motion?"

9:07 And what is a minimal effective dose, right?

9:08 Because I think a lot of people are trying to sell sell something, right?

9:12 Mo- mobility training as like its own

9:14 entity and it's kind of one-style approach,

9:17 but it really doesn't fit into everyone's lives

9:21 uh at a lot of different levels, too, right?

9:23 So, that's kind of where I came in with range of strength uh methods is

9:28 uh a lot of my programming I help people with is has that integrated model.

9:32 Trying to help them choose uh goals

9:35 that they should work on for developing flexibility.

9:39 Uh which is also a barrier.

9:40 You probably have experienced that too.

9:42 It's like what Often times the uh the retention

9:47 to mobility training is just people don't get it.

9:49 They just don't know what they're working for, right?

9:52 So, helping people identify uh good entry-level goals to work

9:56 towards that would help lead to other goals, things like that.

10:00 So, um that's kind of where we are today.

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10:10 and Peak Strength is our strength training app that sponsors this podcast.

10:14 If you guys need help with your programming,

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10:19 lifts that you typically wouldn't do, like myself.

10:22 I didn't want to do the mobility, but every single session,

10:25 every single day, Peak Strength spoon-feeds me a mobility program.

10:30 I've got timers.

10:31 I've got videos.

10:32 I've got guides that are going to help me

10:34 become more mobile and help me with my own recovery.

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11:29 Now, let's get back to Lucas Hardie.

11:33 I think first I want to touch on you and I share that we have twins.

11:37 So, I I need to I always like when I meet somebody who has twins.

11:40 I'm like, "Yo, I got twins, too." And I was in a similar situation.

11:43 I had two kids prior and then we had twins.

11:46 I wanted to get that out of the way cuz I just want to relate to you.

11:49 Um now, with that being said, if if I you know, hearing you out,

11:55 like where I guess right off the bat my first thought is

11:59 like what what would be like two or three simple movements that are

12:06 consistent like traditional strength exercises that you

12:10 might start with or that somebody

12:12 could start with that that could help improve their their range?

12:19 Uh well, for lower body, I actually like um I just call them stances.

12:24 Um and it looks similar to you know, a lunge and a a sumo squat,

12:29 but more of uh what I've learned and studied

12:32 from that side of it is the martial arts side of stances.

12:35 So, in martial arts, they practice a lot of fundamental stance.

12:39 Like bow bow stance and horse stance are

12:42 kind of like these wide uh postures where you're

12:46 basically just starting to express uh a stance

12:49 that is a very long kind of flexible position.

12:54 So, I've learned from some teachers that uh teach

12:57 those things on a a just a different level.

13:00 And of course, I've related it to, you know,

13:02 sumo deadlifting in my powerlifting kind of experiences,

13:05 but uh when it comes to the lower body,

13:08 uh I'll I'll really lean into those two stances.

13:11 So, the long stance,

13:13 which is like a almost looks like a uh standing front split,

13:17 but you're in an active isometric one, you know,

13:20 you're really stretching the knee comes behind the heel behind the toe.

13:24 Um and then the uh wide stance is the horse stance.

13:28 So there there's just like subtle qualities there that are

13:31 in details that are slightly different than a sumo squat versus teaching

13:34 a horse stance where we're we're thinking of how the expression

13:38 of range of motion is is executed versus just standing wide.

13:44 Um so I lean into those cuz they they really open up a lot

13:47 of doors for people in the lower body how to use the hips.

13:51 Uh I've even found a lot of individuals that train

13:53 the horse stance up to a high level become quite more efficient

13:58 at just ass to grass squatting because it really helps break down

14:01 the mechanics of the hips a little better for them to understand.

14:04 Um so I lean into those.

14:06 Uh I'll also work on the the toe

14:08 touch like the traditional forward fold that's often

14:12 a a goal for people but you know within

14:14 that that's like the posterior chain flexibility kind of thing.

14:18 Which could start with a Jefferson curl but often times

14:22 that's not super available to individuals that are quite restricted.

14:25 So I'll start with introductions to I like

14:28 split stance hinging um and just like teaching

14:32 how to actually load and stretch the hamstring

14:34 with a little bit more of a straight leg.

14:37 Uh so it has a little bit more of a yoga background kind of application.

14:41 Um and that'll that'll help a lot

14:44 of individuals develop some flexibility to touch their toes.

14:48 And a lot of these things too I like to put some some numbers

14:52 and figures around like we we don't want it to be a one-time thing.

14:56 We don't want to say like okay we're going to do

14:57 this session and all it's like some magical toe toe touch.

15:00 It's it's something we're trying to have a permanent change

15:04 of range of motion in and I think this is

15:07 where a lot of people get caught up in how

15:09 that's presented is like stretching's neural and it's temporary.

15:13 Uh you know it it's not going to stay

15:15 and it's not something that you can actually

15:17 train up which isn't true in my experience

15:20 and a lot of the things that I've studied,

15:22 it has to be trained over time, right?

15:25 And it has to be progressively overloaded

15:27 for adaptations to occur in those ranges of motion.

15:30 It's like saying that you can't squat 405 because it's temporary.

15:35 It's like trying to turn up every day and squat 405 would

15:38 just be silly to think that that's something that you can do,

15:41 right, starting out?

15:43 So, um those are three big ones for lower body,

15:47 and then upper body, uh I really leaned into the overhead stuff, right?

15:52 Cuz a lot of individuals get that, you know, loss of range of motion overhead,

15:56 and that's also one of those things that's kind of uh

16:00 a bit of a fear around mis- some misinformation around like,

16:04 "Oh, you shouldn't reach overhead cuz you're going to[ __] your shoulder up.

16:07 Uh you're going to create all these issues." Whereas,

16:09 I try to open some doors and start creating some stimulus overhead,

16:14 which involves a lot of static stretching.

16:17 Which static stretching isn't just passive.

16:19 It's It's under load if we do it if we're

16:21 thinking about how we're stretching the tissue and contracting them.

16:25 So, um I find that the even the hang uh I've shared some posts around this, too.

16:31 Developing a hollow body hang for somebody who's quite limited overhead.

16:37 So, it's a little different than a relaxed hang,

16:39 like which is still a good goal.

16:41 It helps with that uh you know, decompression of of the back and the spine.

16:46 Um but the hollow hang, when you think about creating that shape,

16:50 it it puts quite a uh more substantial

16:53 load in the lats and in the shoulder girdle.

16:55 So, it starts to become more of a strength stimulus

16:58 for people that are lacking that overhead range of motion.

17:01 So, those are some things I I think that like, you know,

17:06 right out the the gates you can get people having some

17:09 big wins right away with just some of those small changes,

17:12 and they fit quite easily into traditional programming models,

17:15 which we don't want to strive too far away from, right?

17:17 Like we already know uh you can't go wrong getting strong, right?

17:21 And like most people that are deconditioned and if they lack range of motion,

17:26 they're very intimidated with getting strong.

17:28 So, it's like we that's still a priority.

17:30 Like we got to find a way to get

17:32 this person confident with developing some strength again.

17:35 And then on top of that, you can start putting

17:39 some of these goals in where their range of motion specific.

17:43 So, when you're saying this, like I I initially I'm hearing like

17:47 a a bunch of different stuff around some of these unique positions,

17:51 some of the the split stance positions,

17:53 but I I I wanted almost go back to like your initial start in in in in journey.

17:58 And it almost seemed like that first year

18:02 into yoga and like the more traditional mobility stuff,

18:06 you know, I I I remember like Supple Leopard came out in like 2010 or 2011.

18:12 And I think like prior to that you would see guys,

18:15 you know, doing yoga and doing mobility work.

18:18 I have a good friend actually known as the Mobility Doc.

18:21 Uh and he would always talk more about mobility tools

18:26 or mobility resources as like almost like if someone gets injured,

18:31 how to get them back quicker,

18:32 but then using load like similar to you like he's a big fan of like

18:37 things like full range of motion squats

18:39 as long as someone's capable of doing it.

18:40 It's probably the best way to keep somebody mobile.

18:44 Mhm.

18:43 Anyway, where I'm going with this question is is

18:46 it is it accurate that you were you know,

18:50 the the the traditional like just stretch and and foam roll

18:56 and do yoga didn't do enough that you did find like look,

19:00 I've got to do this stuff and I've got to do

19:02 it loaded and I've and when you did it loaded,

19:06 you tended to see a lot better progress from it.

19:09 Is that accurate?

19:10 Yeah, absolutely.

19:11 And so, to reflect on that a bit deeper,

19:13 like I didn't have the prerequisite positions to do the things I was doing.

19:18 I actually love yoga and when I had

19:21 started to develop a good foundation of flexibility,

19:24 I went back and started doing yoga and I was like, this is 10 times better.

19:27 I can actually access a lot of these positions now.

19:30 Whereas prior to that, when I was struggling,

19:32 I was like kind of sitting in child's pose because they were like

19:35 sitting in child's pose if you can't do this and I was like,

19:37 I can't do that, right?

19:38 Like So, there's a lot of this like how do we

19:41 get someone developing some prerequisite range of motion or at least thinking

19:46 about how they should do that versus just doing a bunch

19:49 of exercises that actually actually can't access or they can't load very well.

19:53 Like static stretching is good if you have the mobility already to do it,

19:59 but I find a lot of individuals, especially uh bigger developed individuals,

20:04 like individuals that carry a lot of muscle,

20:07 like there's no you need load to assist you to actually get in the position.

20:11 The muscle and the connective tissue are so strong that even just

20:15 like putting a little bit of weight into a stretch for someone,

20:18 it's not making it harder, it's actually making it easier for that person

20:22 because they're so stiff and they actually need load.

20:26 It's like when we look at these passive

20:27 range of motion tests where we're checking someone's

20:30 external rotation and stuff and they got all

20:32 this muscle and they can bench 400 lb.

20:34 It's like that's that means nothing to me because I

20:37 know that how much that person can do under load,

20:40 why would I care what he's moving passively here?

20:42 Like I need to actually teach them how to start moving and and getting

20:46 into these positions with some weight so that they

20:48 can start getting some changes in their ROM.

20:51 And I think that's the thing we overlook a lot

20:52 with some of these like even mobility itself is a lot

20:55 of them is like very passive modalities for certain types of people

20:59 that maybe enjoy it because they already have those prerequisite positions.

21:04 It kind of feels like yoga in a way Um,

21:07 versus the types that need some kind of higher stimulus

21:11 or they need some kind of constraints in place that actually help

21:14 them start to change and develop range of motion versus trying

21:18 to access a position that they just don't even have yet.

21:21 So, I I got a question and and part of this is

21:24 that I love triggering powerlifting individuals

21:27 and I know you have the powerlifting background.

21:29 Um, do you think it was powerlifting that sort of like led you astray

21:35 or or led you awry and and got you to be like almost immobile?

21:41 And the reason I'm asking this is like anecdotally,

21:45 you know, we have powerlifters that train here.

21:47 So, I don't want to attack them too bad, but we have powerlifters that train.

21:51 We have weightlifters.

21:51 We got guys that come in for general fitness,

21:53 bodybuilders, and a lot of athletes.

21:56 And when we see stereotypically the powerlifters are almost always stiffer.

22:04 And then depending upon the level of a bodybuilder,

22:06 some bodybuilders have unbelievable mobility.

22:10 Um, and then the weightlifters are are tend to be incredibly mobile.

22:14 And that's where I wanted to go like is it is it because the the benefit

22:20 of the shortened range of motion leads to greater maximal out max strength uh,

22:26 in the sense of the competition?

22:28 Like does powerlifting did that lead you sort of awry and then

22:36 is it now looking back like it's not inherently that powerlifting is bad,

22:40 it's just you need to be doing more range work to sort of support support uh,

22:46 the athlete who is a powerlifter.

22:48 I guess that's where I wanted to see what your thoughts were on that.

22:51 Yeah, absolutely.

22:52 I had a lot of identity crisis there and I

22:55 was getting out of powerlifting like for a moment

22:58 there I hated on it because I had had so many injuries to it and I was like,

23:03 you know, I'm never going to go back to it and I'm going to kind

23:05 of transform my body and get myself into shape and and I'm I'm powerlifting now.

23:10 I just turned 42 and I would even argue I'm

23:13 probably pound for pound stronger than I was back then,

23:16 at least raw, I would say, cuz I used to train equipped.

23:20 Uh but it certainly was a more of a cultural culture cultural thing,

23:26 uh if that makes sense, like getting caught up in like the uh you know,

23:29 taking the bus to the gym instead of walking because

23:31 I didn't want to waste any gains and you know,

23:34 uh just really trying to focus on the big three

23:37 and uh any accessory work that would help that get stronger versus,

23:41 you know, the powerlifters that I help today,

23:44 um I work with more powerlifters now for mobility

23:47 purposes than I do for barbell strength purposes,

23:50 but it's really just about adding some of these things

23:53 into their training that suits and balances out uh all the other qualities.

23:59 And I think that's really where probably a lot

24:02 of specialist athletes can get into, like Olympic lifters

24:04 have it kind of nice where their lifts are

24:06 bringing them through a full ROM all the time,

24:09 but there are certainly some qualities being missed there that they have

24:12 to find ways to address in different ways and I think that's probably where,

24:17 you know, I I'm seeing a lot of it start to switch that way.

24:20 Um you know, coaches like Trevor Jaffe, Jaffe Strength,

24:24 um he helps me out and he's very much a little more open-minded to this stuff.

24:27 He trains powerlifters at a very high level,

24:30 but he puts the things in there that aren't being addressed on a regular basis.

24:33 So, making some time to do some things through full ROM,

24:38 making some time to train some

24:40 positions that don't regularly get trained, right?

24:43 Um I think that's really the culture has to change and I think it is changing.

24:47 I think people are starting to realize it was, you know,

24:49 not doing cardio and not doing all these other

24:52 things that are just important for vitality reasons.

24:55 Um and it's I think it's nice to be

24:58 in a position where I'm in now where I am powerlifting again.

25:02 And I'm still doing the things I was doing.

25:04 I guess the battle that I have sometimes with that is

25:06 like how for how limited I was, you know,

25:10 sometimes it's like is the best answer to take a little bit of a break

25:15 from some of those things that are kind of messing with you mentally,

25:17 which powerlifting was for me at the time, and then,

25:20 you know, figure some[ __] out and come back.

25:23 And I think that's just something that we do now anyway is I'm

25:26 sure you can relate to someone who's been doing it for so long.

25:28 We take these side quests so that we can keep trying

25:31 to be the best version of ourselves and try to keep going, right?

25:35 Uh makes us better coaches at the end of the day

25:37 because it's not always the same athlete in front of us, right?

25:41 Wish it was.

25:42 It wouldn't be as fun, would it?

25:46 I guess like going off of that is if if you're

25:50 looking at it from from this perspective going into bodybuilding, man.

25:53 So So I wanted to you touched on weightlifting.

25:56 Do you think with bodybuilding like the the guys

25:59 who are in it for a while that are good,

26:01 they are typically and like I could be wrong in this analysis,

26:06 but I feel like the the best of the best are like super mobile.

26:09 Like you'll see, you know, I'm just thinking top of mind,

26:11 someone like Mike O'Hearn who's almost I feel

26:13 like the dude's almost 60 and he's he has

26:16 incredible mobility and you'll even see videos of like

26:20 the best bodybuilders like doing hamstring stretches and stuff.

26:23 Do you think that that is from the range that they train in?

26:28 Um they they consistently train in such a long range because

26:32 either one they're going to get more mechanical tension or two,

26:36 they also train in ranges and they might use different movements that we

26:42 aren't used to seeing to try and get a this like mind-muscle connection.

26:47 You can say it it it it doesn't work,

26:49 but I think bodybuilders would argue with that.

26:52 And it almost brings up like I'm thinking about like Bill

26:55 Pearl's book and I've seen you you post with Bill Pearl's

26:59 book uh which you did that before me and I was

27:01 extraordinarily jealous that you did it on social media before me.

27:05 But it made me think like genuinely the bodybuilding mobility might be

27:12 almost what you're saying cuz they're going to do some calisthenic movements.

27:15 They're going to train in a longer range for more

27:17 muscle growth and then at the same time it's targeting weaknesses

27:21 or weak points potentially and they might hit it from a really

27:25 weird angle just because they don't feel that specific muscle.

27:28 And is that like Do you have any thoughts on that?

27:31 Oh, for sure.

27:32 Uh and that's where a lot of my thoughts have gone in the recent

27:35 years studying the old time old time strongman stuff in this bronze era,

27:40 the silver era was when bodybuilding really

27:43 started to become more of an isolated sport.

27:46 And even if you look the silver era is

27:47 probably I would say where you would look more

27:50 and see that stuff where they're really focused on trying

27:53 to develop a muscle through full range of motion.

27:55 They're just really trying to ensure

27:57 that that muscle is trained through full range

27:59 with pullovers and the stiff-leg deadlifts back then

28:01 they used to do from a big deficit.

28:04 Um all of that stuff is there and you know,

28:08 speaking of guys like Mike O'Hearn like, you know,

28:10 say what you will about him like he trains like

28:12 that still and he's trained like that for a long time.

28:15 He's had that old school approach where he's

28:18 doing pullovers and he's doing behind the neck presses.

28:21 He's training in these ROMs that bodybuilding really moved away from, right?

28:25 Cuz the drugs got better.

28:27 The development got a little easier.

28:29 So you kind of started leaning

28:30 into these ways of training where it's like, well,

28:33 I don't want to put myself in a harder position

28:35 or I don't want to compromise anything or, you know,

28:39 I can still look the same, but do I still move the same?

28:42 And I think that's what we need to look

28:43 at when it comes to bodybuilding is like you know,

28:47 you can have that aesthetic quality and it can be built on a machine,

28:50 but how are you moving when you're away from it?

28:53 And you look at guys like Mike and he's

28:54 he's I think he's doing BJJ now, too, right?

28:57 Like he's grappling and he's moving around.

28:59 He's active doing all this other stuff.

29:01 And it's just like proof of the work, right?

29:03 Like he still trains that way.

29:05 Um machines are great.

29:06 I love machines.

29:07 Uh unfortunately, I haven't had access to them very much throughout

29:11 my career cuz I've always worked in little dungeons and I

29:14 worked for the military for a long time where it was

29:16 just like we're just really raw training with what we got.

29:19 But when I have the machines, I certainly use them and it's fun.

29:23 But I don't think we, you know,

29:25 I wouldn't want to see and it's kind of going that way

29:27 sometimes with the optimal training approach with all these cuffs and stuff.

29:32 There's some good ideas there,

29:33 but certainly gets a little crazy where I think we

29:35 should be measuring our movement qualities outside of the gym.

29:39 And you know, Mike's a good example of that.

29:41 And a lot of what they did in the silver era

29:43 and the golden era even um before the machines got so popular,

29:47 it was still that, you know,

29:49 raw approach moving through full range of motion and you know,

29:54 that kind of thing, so.

29:56 Okay, I wanted to I wanted to ask you cuz I you sort of mentioned this.

29:59 There's there's a recent study where they they like strapped they strapped some

30:03 guys down and then they were doing

30:05 like these crazy like 15-minute pec stretches.

30:07 I don't know if you read the papers.

30:09 It was like the last 5 years.

30:10 There was a there was an Achilles stretch on the calf

30:14 where they put out athletes in a boot for over

30:16 an hour and they basically would like crank for the boot

30:20 to to live to strengthen to dorsiflex more to lengthen.

30:24 Uh and it's essentially like 1-hour torture devices

30:29 to get some type of range added to the muscle.

30:33 And like they were like tissue, too, there, didn't they?

30:38 Yeah, yeah, they they did develop some.

30:39 It It's I think even even in the PEC one if I

30:43 remember the PEC one was like a 15-minute stretch but it

30:46 was like it on a scale of 1 to 10

30:49 these these individuals would go to like a 7.5 or an 8.

30:54 Yeah.

30:53 Then they'd stay there and as the pain deteriorated they would

30:57 go back into a a deeper range where it was more painful.

31:02 When when my first hesitation to range training and that now

31:06 also I would I would say I am a range

31:10 a ranger however you would describe it whatever your the the term

31:15 would be um a rangian or something like that, right?

31:20 I would be that person.

31:21 Range seeker, that's what we call it.

31:23 Yeah.

31:23 Okay, range seeker.

31:24 So so like the problem that I have that are

31:26 the hesitant the hesitant part is like sometimes I

31:31 get a little scared that like I'm going to have

31:33 that type of discomfort and I guess that like

31:37 for someone listening right now how much discomfort are they

31:41 going to have to go through or that that you're

31:43 going to be like to be real like look like you got to loosen up a little bit.

31:47 There's going to be some point and I

31:49 and I guess walk me through someone like myself what

31:52 would that what would that look like who who

31:53 doesn't have the best doesn't have the best mobility overhead,

31:57 you know, what does that look like?

31:59 Yeah, for sure.

32:00 That was uh really eye-opening research.

32:04 It was a little um extreme, right?

32:06 Like that's obviously not a very good practical um approach to things.

32:11 Uh and I did get into some discussions

32:13 with Adam Meekins at the time when that came out.

32:15 If you know Adam, he posts a lot of good research you know,

32:19 and helps helps us remove ourselves from the thought

32:21 of being broken all the time which is great.

32:24 But uh we discussed that paper a little bit and I shared another one

32:27 with him that was I think done around the same time that was more realistic.

32:31 So they used similar pain thresholds

32:34 but they they a progressive scale of intensity

32:37 and a progressive scale of volume of more like 45 seconds over the course

32:42 of 9 weeks they went up to 90 seconds for like traditional think of it

32:45 like strength training it was like you know sets and and holds kind of thing.

32:49 And they had a very similar result.

32:51 There was an uh uh felt like a permanent change in range

32:55 of motion at the ankle and there was also muscle development as well.

33:00 So it's a little it's cool because it's more

33:01 of a realistic scenario now you're like oh you know

33:05 so stretching can be done at more intense level

33:09 and kind of the uh the stimulus is more important, right?

33:14 And we can think of progressing

33:15 in the same way we progress strength training which

33:16 is really what I was doing over the I have been doing over the years.

33:20 So now it's like this research is starting to come out

33:22 to say like we do need to challenge ourselves to a pain

33:27 threshold whatever the scale is they're usually using I think like

33:30 an seven or eight out of 10 like you were saying.

33:33 So we actually do need to create

33:35 a stimulus that is going to create change, right?

33:38 Which we know we have to do with strength training too.

33:41 It's just I think like you said the intimidation side here is there's not

33:46 enough accessibility to that as like being taught how to do it well, right?

33:52 Um so it's kind of intimidating.

33:55 It's like should I and I get that a lot.

33:56 People will start doing um heavy Jefferson curls

33:59 and trying to really force a range of motion

34:01 they don't have with weight and I'm like well

34:03 that's that's not the approach which we should do.

34:05 We should try to find an intensity on that hamstring a bit of a different way

34:09 and build that up from there while learning

34:11 the technical qualities of a Jefferson curl for example.

34:15 Um so you know like anything you know I was

34:18 like that when I was younger and I was learning

34:20 how to strength train I was reading whatever article

34:22 and I was going to the gym and I was trying

34:23 it and probably putting myself at risk of getting hurt

34:26 or whatever but uh it's nice to see that the a lot

34:30 of the literature is starting to say the most

34:33 important component to changes in range of motion is intensity.

34:37 Right?

34:38 But how can we do that intelligently where

34:41 we can actually teach someone how to do it and goes back to I think a lot

34:44 of the PNF principles that have been around for a while.

34:47 Like at the end of the day static stretching is a form of isometric training.

34:52 So for me I deal with people that can't do a lot of[ __]

34:58 So I have to start finding ways to put them in a position

35:00 that we can create some kind of isometric component and and getting

35:05 some kind of intensity on either side of the joint that we're stretching.

35:09 Um so you know, it's it's still new, right?

35:14 Like it's a lot of what I present is like

35:16 newer ideas around like what I've been experimenting with um

35:21 but trying to align with a lot of like what some

35:23 of the newer literature is saying and at least you know,

35:26 sometimes you got to steer a little bit away from that to you know,

35:29 figure out what works for different types of people

35:32 and what works for yourself, but um yeah,

35:35 it's it's like certainly one of those things where we just again,

35:38 we just don't have we don't have enough

35:41 coaches or teachers that can implement that stuff.

35:44 You know, we still got people being told to stretch for 5

35:47 minutes after a session and it's like well what does that mean?

35:51 Yeah.

35:51 Yeah, I actually dude it's funny cuz you're saying

35:54 all this and we have our kids after we train,

35:57 they do they do like a 10-minute cool down.

36:01 Mhm.

36:00 And we we do some static like like positional work, squat deep into the hole,

36:05 sit there, rock back and forth, you know,

36:08 maybe like a little duck work, foam roll,

36:10 but then also just crazy static stuff and I'm

36:12 sitting here immediately like challenging myself like is

36:16 this really the best thing it's it's great

36:17 to have kids that are in middle school stretching,

36:20 but like we could take this a little bit further.

36:23 Um before I go into that we don't need to go into that, actually.

36:27 I wanted to ask you cuz you mentioned PNF principles, right?

36:31 What does that mean?

36:31 Somebody listening right now, what is PNF?

36:34 Can you explain that explain PNF principles and then walk us

36:39 through what that would mean for you teaching, you know, teaching,

36:44 let's say, maybe actually with the Jefferson curl and maybe let's just

36:48 roll right into like do we really want to do spinal flexion?

36:51 Do we really want to have final spinal flexion occur as well?

36:54 So, like introduce the principles from PNF.

36:58 What does PNF mean?

37:00 And then how could someone safely achieve spinal flexion,

37:05 but I might ask you to defend spinal

37:07 flexion being okay before we get into the defense.

37:11 Yeah.

37:11 Yeah.

37:12 Well, PNF's interesting, right?

37:13 Because there's been all these evolutions of it where it's confusing now and I

37:18 was confused as a coach when I

37:20 started getting into mobility and flexibility training.

37:22 There was all this terminology and it was really all the same.

37:25 We're just saying the same thing over and over again.

37:27 So, PNF I think has a bit more of the kind

37:32 of long-term origins of what we're doing in a stretch where it's

37:37 proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation is what it stands for and what it

37:42 is is it's a contraction technique on both sides of the joint.

37:47 So, if you're imagining holding a hamstring

37:49 stretch PNF style is usually administered assisted,

37:53 so partner stretch and we have a contraction on the stretching side.

37:58 So, if you're in a hamstring stretch and you're contracting

38:01 your hamstring we're creating a contraction to help that muscle lengthen

38:05 and relax into a deeper range of motion and we're pairing

38:09 that with a contraction on the other side of the joint,

38:11 so the quadriceps and the hip flexors are shortening

38:14 to pull the muscle into a deeper contraction and deeper stretch.

38:18 And there's been all these evolutions of it, right?

38:20 So, then there's the crack method,

38:21 which is contract, relax, agonist contract, same thing.

38:25 And then there's the pales and rails from FRC,

38:28 which is progressive and regressive angular isometrics,

38:32 which is a nice way to think about it because they're a little bit

38:34 more specific to the isometric side of it and the intensity side of it,

38:37 but it is the same thing.

38:40 So, we get into this def- a lot of people will reach out to me and be like,

38:44 "Well, what should I try?" And I'm like, all it's all the same.

38:46 So, you don't really have to worry about one being right or wrong.

38:50 They just have their different way of saying how to do it,

38:52 but the most important is intensity.

38:55 So, when I'm teaching static stretching,

38:58 I'm trying to progressively get someone into a more intense

39:02 stretch and feel like they are actually understanding the stretch.

39:07 There also doesn't have to be contractions on both sides.

39:10 We you know, we know there's constant angle stretching,

39:13 so we're actually just progressively making

39:15 the the stretch harder by moving deeper into it.

39:18 Um you know, there's a lot of these rules about around it,

39:21 but I I like to teach individuals just

39:22 to learn how to get comfortable with being uncomfortable,

39:26 and a lot of these ideas help with that.

39:29 There's you know, simple rules of thumb with stretching

39:31 is like even for a lot of individuals,

39:34 just knowing that you just shouldn't move at least at the start is number one.

39:40 I don't know if you've implemented a stretch

39:41 with someone before and like the first 30 seconds,

39:43 they've moved five times already to readjust and it's like,

39:46 we're not we're not allowing the muscle to stay

39:48 under tension yet because we keep moving and they're

39:50 I'm teaching technique, it's like, "No, keep your feet there.

39:55 I didn't put them here.

39:56 You want them there.

39:58 Put them[ __] back."

40:00 Yeah.

40:01 Well, this is and this is a funny argument, right?

40:03 Because if someone is so stiff that they can't hold a stretch,

40:07 why are we telling them not to stretch and that is useless?

40:09 It's like, they're so jacked up that that stretch

40:11 is actually the isometric entry point that we're looking for.

40:16 Yeah.

40:16 And and and they need to spend time there because I mean,

40:19 always performing reps and moving in and out of a ROM,

40:22 we're never actually spending time in that end

40:25 range where if we want change to happen, right?

40:28 So, and that's really what what stretching is

40:29 for me is spending time in that end range.

40:32 So, if someone doesn't have it, and I can create it and facilitate it

40:36 and get them training it at a high intensity, change is going to happen, right?

40:40 This could be good for anyone that's coming out of a muscle tear or an injury,

40:44 and they really lack, um, options, right?

40:48 They don't have any options for training those tissues.

40:52 So, that's a little bit of the the PNF kind of stuff history, right?

40:56 And like the contraction stuff.

40:58 For anyone listening and they're confused, it's all the same.

41:01 It's all the same.

41:03 It's just a different organization with different terminology,

41:05 different systems, uh,

41:07 but we're just trying to learn how to contract on the on the different

41:10 sides of the joint and learn how to be there.

41:13 Um, for the I guess spinal flexion stuff,

41:17 well, we know we can't avoid it, you know,

41:20 there's there's some good studies out there that show even with neutral spine,

41:24 there's still degrees of spinal flexion occurring.

41:27 So, to tell people to avoid it is kind of well, we can't.

41:31 There it's always going to occur in some capacity.

41:34 And do we need to like train it through a huge range of motion really heavy?

41:39 Depends on the person in front of us, maybe not, right?

41:42 Like I would argue a martial artist or a BJJ

41:45 athlete that gets compromised a lot in those positions,

41:48 may need to learn how to be

41:50 in a deeper spinal flexion under load than most people.

41:54 Um, but for me, it's more of the exposure thing.

41:57 It's like, if I can and what that's how it's helped me.

42:00 I I came out of that school of don't bend your back, don't round your back.

42:06 I think it limited me as a powerlifter.

42:08 I'm I'm conventional deadlifting better now than I

42:11 did in my 20s and I'm in my 40s because I'm actually leaning into some flexion

42:15 and I used to try to avoid it, right?

42:18 Um but it exposed me to how I can move my spine

42:22 and develop that mobility on that side posterior chain of my body.

42:26 Um and I went through a very very long progressive scale of it.

42:30 In the gymnastics community,

42:32 a bodyweight Jefferson curl is like kind of like a gold standard.

42:36 So, I did chase that.

42:38 Uh I at the time it was 185 lbs cuz I was quite lean.

42:42 And I did that for reps through full ROM, straight legs,

42:45 but that took me like 3 years or or so to get up to that point.

42:51 And I was doing 10 lbs and I couldn't even touch the floor when I started.

42:55 So, you know, people don't see that stuff

42:58 and enough and they don't consider like how

43:01 long sometimes it takes for this like graded

43:04 exposure to these uh unique compromised positions, right?

43:09 It's like someone wants to curl this year and it's like you know,

43:12 it's just something you should train all the time.

43:14 You should train spine flexion to some capacity all the time.

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44:14 Now, let's get back to the podcast.

44:17 Let me ask a question on that cuz I'm thinking about this ego,

44:20 you know, selfishly.

44:21 What it like for me Okay, my my PR I wanted to echo actually,

44:26 my PR deadlift I was when I finally got

44:29 away from like trying to hold like this neutral back

44:32 and just accepting that I was setting my dead

44:34 with a slight like with some spinal flexion right off the floor,

44:38 just accepting it's going to happen.

44:41 Mhm.

44:41 Um and I and it makes me reflect back to yesterday I was snatching and I'm like,

44:46 man I did that for a while and now sometimes I

44:50 struggle to hold any type of extension at all off the floor.

44:56 Mhm.

44:55 And it made me actually think maybe I should be training

44:59 more of like a Jefferson curl to try and strengthen that position.

45:05 Um and to to become more organized and maybe more coordinated with it.

45:10 What would that look like on a week for you?

45:12 Like a week of training,

45:13 let's say I'm on a a typical uh push pull like or upper lower upper lower,

45:20 you know, I'm doing an upper day, a lower day, an upper day, a lower day.

45:24 What would that look like as far as where you would place the Jefferson curl?

45:27 Would that be an everyday thing or would

45:29 that just be something I do like twice a week?

45:31 I would just do it even once a week.

45:33 I've only ever done it once a week myself for the last 12 plus years.

45:39 Once a week, but uh I would have

45:41 probably another exposure to some forward folding stuff.

45:46 Elephant walks or you know,

45:48 just getting down there and spending some time in that position.

45:51 So, not as much of a spine flexion under load kind of position,

45:55 but just if it's something where we're like trying to open that range

45:58 up something softer on another day of the week would be helpful.

46:02 give you a second exposure,

46:04 kind of like a high low day, I guess, for Jefferson curls.

46:07 Um, that works quite well for anyone that's into that.

46:11 And I always like to um,

46:14 at least balance out the equation a bit with that more uh,

46:18 graded exposure to spinal extension stuff like back bridges things

46:22 like that, which is why I got so into throwers, thrower content throwing, uh,

46:27 training because Jesus, you just don't see, you know,

46:32 I I learned how to do a back

46:33 bridge in gymnastics style training and then you're seeing

46:36 the application of it under velocity and speed

46:39 and you're seeing like what's capable in the body.

46:42 It's pretty cool.

46:43 But I do try to balance things out a little bit.

46:46 So if someone's working the spinal flexion stuff under my programming,

46:49 I'm going to have some kind of uh,

46:52 complement to like getting the spinal erectors in a little more extension

46:56 and getting the upper back T spine in those kind of ranges as well.

47:00 So yeah.

47:02 What do you say to people that, okay, so,

47:04 all right, well, I I'll go with two questions here.

47:07 Let's say you do you know, let's say you got a leg day, upper body day,

47:11 would you do a like Jefferson curls day one,

47:14 maybe back bridges day two for your upper body day,

47:18 maybe day three you're back to a leg day, that's an elephant walk,

47:21 then day four you do some type of bent arm pullover,

47:25 would that be something of decent practical application?

47:32 Yeah, absolutely.

47:33 Um, I don't think the the I guess the bridge

47:37 stuff may not have to be done as as much,

47:39 but it depends on what they're they're training

47:42 for, but that would be a good balance there,

47:44 like some some back bridge skill stuff, which really at the start,

47:48 that stuff feels a little bit more like elephant walk

47:50 low intensity type work cuz you're just trying to get people

47:53 in positions and stretching a a bit more cuz it's

47:56 like they haven't spent any time in a static abdominal stretch.

47:59 So, it's just like holy[ __] Like put that near the end

48:01 of the week where they can spend some time and uh

48:05 maybe the pullover kind of weighted stuff in the front of the week

48:08 so they can train those up a little bit more balanced.

48:11 So, I think traditionally if I'm looking at those kind

48:14 of programs that front load intensity at the front of the week,

48:18 I would usually do some softer bridge stuff at the end of the week.

48:22 Um and just think about some of the stretches for those kind of things.

48:26 Okay, that makes sense.

48:27 Now, what if you have somebody who's consistently

48:29 cramping when they do like a back bridge?

48:32 What do you How do you What do you think

48:34 that is and how long does it take to sort of overcome

48:36 the the that point of just like they go to hit a back

48:41 bridge and their erectors or their rhomboid is just like immediately seizing.

48:46 Like is that you give me a couple seconds dealing with it and then

48:49 over a long period of time we're going to eventually come out of this?

48:53 Yeah, I think a lot of people jump too far on the back bridge.

48:56 They go right into some shapes that maybe they aren't ready for.

49:00 Um so, I like to look at the back bridge in layers.

49:03 The hip flexors and the abdominals need to be flexible.

49:08 So, I'll often spend a lot of time

49:09 in that area first developing some hip flexor and abdominal flexibility.

49:14 Um the shoulders, they need to be through a certain range of motion and flexion.

49:19 And then the back is where it's cramping through

49:22 the erectors and stuff needs to be trained up.

49:24 So, even doing some, you know, back extension work.

49:28 Uh that kind of thing can go really far.

49:30 But for someone that's quite limited and cramping like that, I'll usually look

49:34 at like the anterior chain flexibility

49:37 where that's almost non-existent for most people.

49:40 No one's No one really stretches their abs.

49:42 No one stretches their hip flexors.

49:44 Uh no one really takes their ab work through full range of motion either, right?

49:48 So, often we're looking at shoulders,

49:50 we're looking at the hips, and it's like your trunk.

49:53 Your trunk is super jacked up, right?

49:55 The obliques don't bend, and it's like we got to spend some some time there.

49:59 And that's been the game-changer for me, man.

50:01 Like my my back bridge right now[ __] it's it still was the hardest thing.

50:07 Like my wife used to have to uh spot me, try to lift my rib cage up.

50:12 It was like the only way I could get

50:13 into a somewhat of a bridge or get my hands behind me,

50:16 but it was when I started doing that, I started really training in my abs more,

50:21 my trunk through more ROM, and really develop my flexibility there.

50:25 And really just spending time focusing on end-range back extension strength,

50:29 like cobras in yoga.

50:30 You can really You've probably seen Olympic lifters do that, too,

50:33 where they're on the floor and they're doing back extensions under load.

50:36 That's[ __] crazy.

50:38 But spending time on those things, and like my back bridge is just like solid.

50:44 Like it's more solid than it was thought when I,

50:48 you know, was just doing that[ __] and wasn't lifting at all.

50:50 When I'm lifting the deadlifting and all this[ __]

50:52 and I'm just flying in my back bridge now,

50:53 because those qualities are way uh more developed than they were back then.

50:59 Walk me through when when I see the Steinborn squat, right?

51:03 Like I like to think about uh throwing actually a lot,

51:07 and and the rotation involved with throwing.

51:10 Yeah.

51:11 Um but I'm I'm watching you do a Steinborn,

51:13 and I'm like it First of all, you So,

51:15 you and I are the same age, and it blows me away that you even want to do that.

51:19 But then you got like I don't even remember what you had on.

51:22 I I swear in my mind it was 500 lb.

51:24 I could be completely completely wrong.

51:27 But but I'm sitting there like what is this lunatic doing?

51:32 So, walk walk me through like the the key components as far as the prep

51:39 for it as as like what are like some checkpoints from a mobility, you know,

51:44 I don't want to say mobility,

51:45 but like these are the checkpoint exercises that you got to be able

51:48 to to do proficiently before you can start to screw around with it.

51:53 And then, you know, over time I'm

51:55 assuming it's just like standard progressive overload.

51:57 If you've got these things achieved, these exercises here,

52:02 now you can start toss some weight on the actual movement because

52:05 you will you will gain the range from the intensity of the movement.

52:08 Yeah.

52:09 Yeah, so I want to hear what you have to say about this.

52:12 Yeah, I mean, I've I've had good

52:13 success walking most people through a Steinborn workshops.

52:18 I do workshops now and that's part of it.

52:20 We go through some old-time lifts and you know,

52:24 if you just get people doing it in a facilitated environment where

52:27 it's being taught and instructed like a lot of people can Steinborn.

52:31 Obviously, putting a lot of weight on there is what's hard.

52:35 But it makes for quite an athletic

52:37 kind of movement when people start realizing like,

52:39 holy[ __] a plate feels like two plates again.

52:42 Right?

52:42 Cuz it's like That's what it was for me.

52:44 I got into it during COVID.

52:46 So, the world shut down.

52:47 I had a barbell and some bumper plates and I

52:49 just started doing some old[ __] in the backyard, just messing around.

52:52 And uh I did I think I hit 275

52:55 on the Steinborn and it just like almost destroyed me.

52:58 Like two and a half plates.

53:00 And then I got in I got some coaching.

53:02 So, there's a a guy out there who teaches and trains

53:05 this stuff and has for a long time, James Fuller.

53:07 Uh Strongman Archaeology uh is his tag.

53:11 And I did some coaching with him and he

53:12 just like actually walked me through some technical points.

53:16 Uh I don't think anyone would think about with a Steinborn.

53:19 So, positioning the barbell on your back in such a way

53:23 where you can make it more of an efficient movement.

53:26 So, when I go through the process of doing that with heavier weight,

53:30 I actually set it up more in a low bar position.

53:32 So, the bar and the weight's a little closer to my hips.

53:35 So, that when I tip off the floor,

53:37 I'm in more of like a hip dominant power position.

53:39 So, if you watch my tip or my rock over,

53:42 when it rocks over, I I almost spend no time in a stuck squat.

53:47 I just kind of drive it right up because

53:49 of this hip-dominant kind of setup, low bar position.

53:53 When I come to stand, I use that momentum to reposition the bar to high bar.

53:58 So, these are some things he taught me just to make it more efficient, right?

54:01 And then you start doing it and you're thinking, "Oh, man,

54:03 like I can actually move a decent amount of weight without it feeling like very

54:07 fatiguing." Um positioning the barbell off-centered.

54:12 So, if you think about it, when you're closer to the weight off the floor,

54:15 it's going to tip it off faster,

54:16 and it's not going to be as demanding on your obliques when you laterally bend.

54:21 So, that's another technical point there,

54:23 like that's quite helpful when I set it up that way and it tips,

54:26 it comes off the floor a little more with ease,

54:28 and then you can drive up, reset the bar, and go, kind of thing.

54:32 So, those things help a lot, for sure,

54:34 when you're going through the process of doing a heavy Steinborn.

54:38 But, um yeah, like I think just knowing some of those ways

54:44 of getting like a mechanical advantage on your setup is one thing,

54:48 but another thing I like to do even

54:50 just with like basic barbell squatting and some mobility

54:53 stuff is I'll just get people sitting

54:56 in a squat and just uh moving side to side.

54:59 So, like a Steinborn tap, it's called.

55:02 It's quite a nice movement where you're just you're just

55:04 trying to learn where that space is cuz it's so unfamiliar.

55:07 You're you're performing a side bend

55:10 and feeling the barbell actually make contact,

55:12 so your brain's kind of getting an understanding of the ROM.

55:15 So, you're turning and and hitting the almost like like I don't know,

55:20 the weightlifting crowd could could relate to like Lu Xiaojun

55:24 standing and doing Chinese side bends like with the barbell.

55:27 You're doing this after grass.

55:29 Yeah, just in a squat.

55:31 And what's nice about that progression is

55:32 you can extend it and get people pushing

55:35 up into hip extension like they're going up

55:38 into that tip and that rock over, right?

55:40 So, now you touch and then you extend your leg up

55:43 and then come back down and now you're going side to side.

55:47 And it actually just makes for a nice accessory exercise.

55:49 I use that in a lot of my programming just for fun.

55:52 For like, you know, lateral flexion strength stuff.

55:55 Um but, you know, you just start getting With the Steinborn then,

56:01 now that you're like playing around with that the like

56:04 do you think of any sport that's like,

56:06 "Yo, this actually could help this sport specifically?" Yeah, absolutely.

56:10 Like, I mean, I with the military background we did

56:14 do a lot of physical fitness testing for fireman carries.

56:17 It was a big one.

56:18 Right?

56:18 So, I mean, and you'd have to do it with someone the same size, right?

56:22 So, if you and I had to pass this test,

56:25 I had to find a partner the same size as me to pass that test.

56:28 So, it'd be like you're doing it with someone of pretty good weight.

56:31 You you're not just picking up someone small.

56:33 Um so, obviously for things like that, it can be

56:36 quite helpful to understand how to tip some heavy weight over.

56:39 Um there's actually a wrestling move.

56:41 It's called like an airplane or something

56:43 and it's this it's like a Steinborn flip.

56:45 Uh I've only seen it a few times,

56:46 but obviously wrestling's a big one where you can

56:49 get into that position where you're doing that, but there

56:51 is a move it's called like an airplane where

56:53 you you basically sweep someone and you laterally throw them.

56:57 So, that's kind of cool to see.

56:59 Uh that way you about fireman's carry.

57:01 You like hit like this.

57:03 Like you you pull over and then you sort of dump over top

57:06 and it's like it would be just a as long as you have

57:10 that collar like that you you know how to use your overhook like

57:13 a quick version of that with the Steinborn

57:16 would be a good supporting movement there.

57:19 It's like I It's it's fun for me to think through this because I I

57:24 feel like I get so lost in my own

57:28 like full range weightlifting, plyos, track world.

57:35 That for me to to like I have you know I've got three copies of Bill Pearl's

57:39 book and I'm oftentimes doing stuff myself but very

57:42 rarely am I really going all in on something.

57:46 I mean this would be more so the old old school

57:48 strongman stuff but really I almost want to use this as like

57:53 when you were when you were describing the Steinborns taps

57:56 I'm like that could be a good accessory for my weightlifters.

58:00 Like that could be like a I'm going to make

58:02 them do this in the mornings at the very least.

58:04 Like Yeah, I mean weightlifter is is explosively moving

58:08 into these end ranges and it's like any kind

58:10 of tool we can give them to troubleshoot when

58:13 things potentially go out of or deviate from perfection, right?

58:17 And I think that's a really good helpful tool for that.

58:20 I mean the old time stuff is so fun to get into because

58:24 when Steinborn did that it was a funny contest because they would they just

58:29 had a barbell loaded on the platform and they would just said and by any

58:33 means necessary who can get the most amount of weight on their back.

58:37 And he went up and did it that way which probably came

58:39 from working on a farm or just that technique of like how you're going

58:43 to tip something over that's really heavy and he just did it and then

58:46 you know it was insane how much weight he moved pound for pound especially.

58:50 But then just thinking of the other things they did back then that we don't do.

58:54 It's like the one hand lifts.

58:57 Yeah.

58:57 Heavy lifts with one hand like heavy deadlift variations.

58:59 It's like that's probably the most corrective form of exercise that there is out

59:03 there or organic thing strength wise we can do and we just stopped doing it.

59:10 Okay, this actually is a good segue from this I

59:13 I I'm jumping the gun on this is the question

59:17 from our previous podcast was with the strength coach for the Chicago

59:21 Bulls um when they won the world title multiple times.

59:25 The assistant strength coach name is name's Mike Tuchscherer,

59:27 and he's now the head of um high performance

59:30 at the Olympic training center uh for USA weightlifting with the USOPC.

59:34 He's been to the Olympics like five times.

59:37 Cool.

59:36 He actually brings this up, and he said,

59:38 "Do you have um anything to help with consistent aches and pains

59:45 that will help athletes like push through

59:48 injury while having some type of objective,

59:51 measurable, or protocol to possibly mitigate

59:55 these aches and pains?" And the reason

59:58 why I'm pitching this as a question to you from Mike Mhm.

1:00:03 is when you're bringing up the one-arm

1:00:05 stuff and these these old-school movements,

1:00:09 could these be part of some type of simple protocol like, "Yo, to be healthy yo,

1:00:15 on a on a every other day basis, we got to make sure you can do a one-arm lift,

1:00:19 or you can do a Steinborn tap." I don't know.

1:00:21 I want It just triggered me to ask that question there

1:00:24 cuz I almost felt like you were sort of hitting on it.

1:00:26 Yeah, in a way I was, and that was a wake-up call for me, too,

1:00:30 the first time I tried the uh straddle one-hand deadlift,

1:00:34 where you stand over the bar that's between your legs.

1:00:37 My It was like 50 lb difference one arm to the other.

1:00:40 I was like, "What the hell?" Like,

1:00:41 I just I've had some shoulder injuries on that other arm,

1:00:43 which I've rehabbed the traditional way with a lot of isolated kind of stuff.

1:00:49 But really, I think what's missing

1:00:53 in the corrective exercise world is load and intensity.

1:00:56 So, when you look at a lot of these corrective positions,

1:00:59 it's always some kind of split stance, some kind of you know,

1:01:03 coming down to hinge pattern deadlift of some sort,

1:01:06 but we're never challenging load or putting any weight in anyone's hand.

1:01:11 Right?

1:01:11 And when you do a heavy one-hand deadlift, whether it's straddle, uh suitcase,

1:01:16 or even just like the straight bar in front

1:01:18 of you like a normal setup for deadlift with one hand,

1:01:21 that really challenges you and gets you to self-organize yourself like you would

1:01:27 in the real world or in a scenario where you have to move some[ __] So,

1:01:32 you know, this certainly for I think athletes in season, you know,

1:01:36 that's always the challenge is like how

1:01:38 can we keep challenging these guys to just

1:01:40 give them a stimulus that's not going to put them too much at risk.

1:01:43 That's one reason why I really love the one-hand lifts because like you're

1:01:47 just never going to exceed what you can do bilaterally on a one-hand lift.

1:01:53 Right.

1:01:52 So, you're going to get a strong stimulus and you're going

1:01:55 to be obviously a lot safer from in season kind of mishaps.

1:02:00 Um that's why it was such an impressive feat back then, right?

1:02:03 Because if you have guys like uh

1:02:05 Hermann Goerner deadlifted 600 lb with one hand, people used to be like, "Well,

1:02:10 what could he do with two?" That's like 1,200 lb, right?

1:02:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:15 People say that with single-leg squats.

1:02:17 It's like, "No, no, that's not how it works." No.

1:02:20 Really It's still legit.

1:02:21 It's still cool, but no.

1:02:23 Um So, you know, it's I think we've kind

1:02:26 of overlooked that in the corrective exercise world and corrective

1:02:29 exercise has kind of blown up into this thing

1:02:32 where you got to fix yourself and it's like, "Well, what do you mean?

1:02:35 We're all There we're we're imperfectly built anyway.

1:02:39 So, we we're supposed to actually know

1:02:41 how to lean into these imperfections as well.

1:02:44 And I think one-hand lifts do that quite well.

1:02:47 Um and I think for people that maybe are For me,

1:02:51 it's not even flexibility or mobility.

1:02:54 It's looking at what we're not training.

1:02:56 Like what shapes and what positions aren't being addressed.

1:03:00 And you can see some strength coaches doing

1:03:02 that really well with even like uh I always

1:03:06 like looking at Pat Mahomes uh training where

1:03:09 his trainer is showing him some back bridge stuff.

1:03:11 And then there's a clip of him being tackled weird, right?

1:03:14 And he's like moving into this back bend

1:03:15 and his trainer is learning to expose him to those shapes.

1:03:19 He doesn't probably need a perfect yoga back bridge.

1:03:23 But the more ways that we can introduce him to expose him

1:03:27 to those potential mishaps or positions where he's going to get exposed to it.

1:03:32 And you know, this is the argument for me when it comes to full range training.

1:03:36 As athletes going hard on the field,

1:03:38 you're you're going to be exposed to some end

1:03:41 range awkward position whether you like it or not.

1:03:45 Obviously to the extent of how hard you

1:03:47 should put that in your training or reinforce it.

1:03:51 It doesn't have to be at a crazy extent that maybe I

1:03:53 do myself sometimes cuz I'm not an athlete like I used to be.

1:03:57 I don't go on the field and do that stuff.

1:03:59 But you know, certainly I think that's the argument.

1:04:03 Is when athletes get these weird injuries and stuff sometimes it's like you

1:04:07 really can't prevent those, but we can certainly do our best to prevent them.

1:04:12 And I think sometimes prevention's best tool is exposing them to these awkward

1:04:16 positions that are really hard to do in the weight room, right?

1:04:20 I guess okay.

1:04:21 So I wanted to share with you on this cuz you you

1:04:25 mentioned the like the Steinborn one arm lifts and stuff like that.

1:04:29 And Rusty Witt who is he's the strength

1:04:32 and conditioning coach for the University of Florida's football team.

1:04:35 He was at Tulane just got this job.

1:04:36 They you know, they just moved into Florida the there.

1:04:40 And he actually mentioned and he was texting me

1:04:43 we're talking about training and he's like I said,

1:04:45 why are you doing these specific deadlifts?

1:04:49 And they're doing like a double over no double over

1:04:53 they can do a hook but there's no straps deadlifts.

1:04:57 And he goes the reason being is I know

1:05:01 somebody is not their grip is not strong enough

1:05:04 to put their back in a bad position where

1:05:07 they would hurt their back from a double over deadlift.

1:05:11 And it made me think the single arm stuff.

1:05:15 Mhm.

1:05:15 And I'm I was going through this internally just as you

1:05:18 were speaking and I'm trying to think through how you know,

1:05:24 how to how to train those qualities cuz then you mentioned the Pat Mahomes

1:05:28 thing and I'm I have my initial

1:05:30 negative response is like Pat Mahomes post, right?

1:05:34 Like that post is cool.

1:05:35 I know exactly what you're talking about,

1:05:36 but where I struggle is I'll have a I'll have a parent hit me up Mhm.

1:05:41 and they'll say, Pat does this, we need to do this.

1:05:44 And I'm going, your kid can't even ass to grass back squat 225.

1:05:47 Why am I doing this[ __] And so to fight you back,

1:05:52 I want to be like, yo Lucas, you're you're putting out this[ __] you know,

1:05:58 and and and then I started like I was I was listening to you,

1:06:01 but at the same time having this internal struggle as you were talking going,

1:06:06 how do we balance it Yeah.

1:06:08 to where we're training those shapes and we're training

1:06:10 those those areas the way that we need to, Yeah.

1:06:14 but we're not being taken away from like the fundamentals

1:06:18 of of of of strength and the fundamentals of, you know, getting stronger.

1:06:24 Then I started to think about myself, well,

1:06:25 how often would should I be doing a one arm lift?

1:06:27 Is it once a week?

1:06:28 Is it just like Yeah,

1:06:29 I I and I'm I'm playing this game right now where I'm trying

1:06:32 to think through cuz I was trying to defend you with Rusty's scenario,

1:06:37 but then at the same time I was so triggered by the Mahomes

1:06:40 post cuz I started to think about my high school parents.

1:06:43 So, I don't know.

1:06:44 I wanted to see I know that was a long drawn out explanation,

1:06:46 but I want to see what you what you're what your takeaway is

1:06:49 from something like that as as a as a as an argument almost against it.

1:06:53 Yeah, absolutely.

1:06:54 And I think this is where we have to come up with I mean, standards,

1:06:58 say what you will about standards of practice

1:07:00 or training and this is what's helpful for them, right?

1:07:03 And a lot of coaches look for that kind of stuff for me.

1:07:06 You know, they come in, they they want to study the training programs

1:07:09 and ask questions and look at some of the systems and make those decisions like,

1:07:14 "Okay, I have a team of whatever for an hour and a half.

1:07:18 How can I even think about introducing them

1:07:20 to a back bridge or a back bend or anything like

1:07:23 that?" And this is where we have to look

1:07:25 at the things that do fit in nicely into programming.

1:07:28 So, then we you know, we lean into things like a pullover.

1:07:30 We lean into things like a hanging back bend or a hanging

1:07:33 cobra cuz they're quite accessible and they can be progressed quite nicely.

1:07:38 Um we can start making a decision as to whether

1:07:41 or not we want to do assisted bridges.

1:07:43 You know, you cross someone over a bench

1:07:46 after they do some pullovers and then they

1:07:47 can actually already have the rib cage elevated

1:07:50 and they can perform a little isometric, right?

1:07:52 So, this starts to come down to management

1:07:55 of time and how to actually lay out a session,

1:07:57 which you know, Mike Boyle used to do that quite well and you know,

1:08:01 he he's functional training books used to save my life when

1:08:04 I first started as a strength coach because it was very organized.

1:08:06 It was like, "Fit all your stuff in here." Right?

1:08:09 And I even still reference that stuff now.

1:08:12 But I look at some of these qualities that aren't getting trained.

1:08:14 So, these these big long range positions uh how am I going to fit those in?

1:08:20 Uh you know, a back bridge or a bend shape and then

1:08:23 a spine flexion shape or posterior chain kind of flexibility exercise.

1:08:27 Like, how do we fit those things in and um you know, there's a way to do it.

1:08:33 Uh there's certainly a way to do it

1:08:35 and you probably already are doing it to be honest,

1:08:37 but maybe there's some strategies there that we could get a little more out of.

1:08:42 Some of that we could create some super sets or things like that to get

1:08:45 a little more out of what you're already

1:08:46 doing cuz it sounds like you're doing pullovers.

1:08:47 was just thinking there.

1:08:49 Yeah.

1:08:49 Yeah, like it sounds like you're probably already doing some of it anyway.

1:08:52 And of course, yeah, I've been a part of that I get a lot of messages

1:08:56 sometimes when people get excited about

1:08:58 those Pat Mahomes videos and they're like,

1:08:59 "I need my kid to do this." Or they need to be able to do that and it's like,

1:09:03 "Okay, what do they do now?

1:09:04 Are they even strong?" Yeah.

1:09:06 Yeah.

1:09:08 My my son Go ahead.

1:09:10 Go ahead.

1:09:10 No, tell me your about your son.

1:09:12 Well, my son's kind of like my my guinea pig.

1:09:14 He's 16 now.

1:09:16 And we haven't done anything, I think, off the cuff to un- non-traditional.

1:09:21 He squats, he presses, he deadlifts.

1:09:23 He does his conditioning and plyo work.

1:09:25 And I've just added some of these things.

1:09:27 So, we just add some of the things I've talked

1:09:29 to you about with some stances and some basic bridge stuff.

1:09:33 And it's just things that he doesn't get exposed to.

1:09:37 Um he's doing quite well.

1:09:38 He's getting crazy strong.

1:09:40 And it's how much more does he need from those things?

1:09:43 Well, it just depends, I guess, how far he goes, but you know,

1:09:47 he's holding a low bridge now where he's it's almost like a tripod.

1:09:50 And he just kind of holds that so he understands that position.

1:09:53 Um but giving him this little exposure to some of these weird things,

1:09:56 but you know, he's still doing all

1:10:00 the same traditional stuff that we we know works.

1:10:03 We know what works and you know, these young guys coming in got to be strong.

1:10:07 You you know that they it takes a lot of while to get strong and that's

1:10:11 been the the big thing for him is just having a few of these things in there,

1:10:14 but like we got to get strong, buddy.

1:10:15 And we got to do it with good form.

1:10:17 Same kind of approach that we used when I was a kid.

1:10:21 What do you think like do you teach kids how to weightlift?

1:10:24 Do you do they do you do cleans or snatches?

1:10:26 Um not so much the weightlifting side.

1:10:28 I took weightlifting certifications.

1:10:30 Um I've done some weightlifting, but I also blew my ACL out playing rugby.

1:10:35 So, I mean, of all the things uh I try to keep exposing myself to the weight

1:10:40 the weightlifting stuff is the one thing like I

1:10:42 don't I do no foot uh snatches and cleans.

1:10:46 So, like I don't really do hard jumps on that.

1:10:48 It's the only thing,

1:10:49 but I've been restoring my plyometric work uh is a lot better than it used

1:10:53 to be given some of the new kind

1:10:55 of ideas being presented around that, but um yeah, I teach all that stuff.

1:10:59 I have for a long time.

1:11:00 And like I said to you, it was like when I just started becoming so

1:11:04 mobile and flexible was when it was like, you know,

1:11:06 I have to kind of answer the call to all these questions

1:11:09 and people not feeling like they could figure that stuff out, right?

1:11:13 So, yeah.

1:11:14 These days it's it's more of a focus there and my traditional

1:11:17 programming stuff is just a little bit of a blend.

1:11:20 Doesn't look much different than what we already know is good stuff.

1:11:23 It just has a little bit more of uh

1:11:25 some of these other things that get missed added in.

1:11:29 Okay, I want to ask you a real off-the-cuff question.

1:11:31 What are the best the best lifts that will transfer to skateboarding?

1:11:38 Well, ass-to-grass squats, 100%.

1:11:41 I mean, getting back into skateboarding now

1:11:43 and my powerlifting years I wasn't an ass-to-grass

1:11:46 squatter and I I think it had a obviously a lot to do with mobility,

1:11:49 but also some not training certain technical

1:11:52 qualities on the on the high bar squat,

1:11:54 but um I'm not having any problems getting back on the board now.

1:11:58 I think that that's a really good one and I would say those two stances,

1:12:04 the the horse stance and the long lunge.

1:12:06 Uh I've worked with some skateboarders and it's just been

1:12:08 a matter of introducing them to those and loading them up,

1:12:10 like getting them really strong, thinking about like,

1:12:13 you know, how can we load these positions because, I mean,

1:12:17 you're always slipping on the board and stretching out the groin,

1:12:19 stretching out the hamstrings, those sort of things.

1:12:22 But uh plyos and some squats, man, like you're going to be flying on the board.

1:12:27 I've been doing all right.

1:12:30 All right.

1:12:31 When when I'm thinking through this, say,

1:12:34 I have a I have a couple I have a couple like long-life dreams.

1:12:39 I want to I want to eventually try to do a split.

1:12:42 If I wanted to do a split,

1:12:45 how long would that take for me to be able to be able to hit a split?

1:12:50 Mhm.

1:12:50 And what would that look like practice-wise?

1:12:52 What would that look like, you know, as far as actually training is is involved?

1:13:00 Um it took me 3 years to really lock that split

1:13:04 in to like how I like I can train it now, like I have been you know.

1:13:09 Uh still takes me a little prep to warm up.

1:13:11 I can't just slide right into my split.

1:13:12 I can, you know, takes a little warm up and I can get into a passive split,

1:13:16 but 3 years there was a lot of trial and error for me.

1:13:19 Right?

1:13:20 So, there was a lot of trying to figure out what works.

1:13:22 Um most of my dedicated clients that are really

1:13:26 locked in, like I want to do the splits,

1:13:28 are getting really, really good progress within 18 months to 24 months.

1:13:33 So, you're looking at least a year and a half putting some work in.

1:13:37 Um I've never trained much more than once a week.

1:13:40 I still train once a week, sometimes once every 10 days um to recovery, right?

1:13:47 Like you need to recover from the split.

1:13:50 Uh a lot of people don't treat it like strength training,

1:13:53 but it's very much the same as strength training

1:13:55 and even to a higher extent hard on the nervous system.

1:13:58 Uh your adductors will be a little banged up for longer,

1:14:01 so you got to be smart about where you're putting it in the programming.

1:14:05 Um I did do some specialized training.

1:14:10 Um Dan Van Zant, so he's flexibility research online.

1:14:13 He he posts a lot of good stuff on flexibility.

1:14:17 Uh he had an old program years ago.

1:14:19 It was like a specialized 3 days a week

1:14:22 in your progressively adding weight like each week,

1:14:25 like holding it in your hands, which I've gotten back into that now.

1:14:28 I'm I'm doing a lot of weighted split

1:14:30 work where I'm holding my splits with weight,

1:14:32 but I did do that for uh 2 months and it

1:14:36 was around the time I did actually get my split.

1:14:39 So, I was actually loading it up, getting it strong outside of my max range,

1:14:43 and then progressively getting myself lower.

1:14:46 But ever since then I had I haven't trained it

1:14:48 more than once a week or once every 10 days, prioritizing recovery.

1:14:52 And uh you know, it's the thing about splits that people don't

1:14:58 consider is like just understanding the technical qualities of holding a split.

1:15:03 So, we know we can only abduct our legs so far.

1:15:07 And there's this old test where it's people would say like

1:15:09 if you can't lift your leg this high you can't do split.

1:15:12 That's not necessarily the the reason you can't do a split

1:15:16 cuz that's only driven by external rotation and um abduction.

1:15:21 If we start thinking about like what happens when we're

1:15:24 in a split and we're keeping the feet on the ground,

1:15:27 you can actually drive a lot of qualities of internal rotation into your split.

1:15:32 And as you're doing that, you can actually

1:15:33 start to learn to override this limit in abduction,

1:15:37 like how far you can lift your leg.

1:15:39 And that's really how I obtained my split cuz I couldn't lift my leg.

1:15:42 I did those tests when I started.

1:15:43 I was like, "Fuck, this says I can't do split because I can't

1:15:46 lift my leg this high." But when you start to study uh Thomas Kurz,

1:15:51 he's actually one of the first that presented that that I have read about.

1:15:55 I don't know if anyone else did at the time,

1:15:56 but a lot of people talk about it now.

1:15:58 So, his book Stretching Scientifically,

1:16:01 he talks about the split in the horse stance

1:16:03 this way because it's not traditional to martial arts.

1:16:06 They teach a posterior pelvic tilt,

1:16:08 which is like movement-based and like fundamental for transitions,

1:16:13 where he taught and teaches anterior pelvic tilt.

1:16:16 And part of the reason he talked about

1:16:18 that was to override as well the uh impingement.

1:16:21 So, your femur gets impinged in the hip socket.

1:16:25 And if you learn how to train your hip this way, it kind of overrides that.

1:16:30 So, a lot of leaning into that, you probably are a lot farther along than you

1:16:33 would think if you just leaned into training

1:16:35 the isometrics with your hip in that position.

1:16:38 Um yeah, that's You probably could never What do think

1:16:42 the carryover of like a deep Cossack squat is

1:16:45 to a to a like a decent Cossack squat to a split?

1:16:52 Probably not as much as it's promoted because Okay.

1:16:55 You need You need load.

1:16:56 You need to be under load.

1:16:58 Like I would I would even argue that just an isometric

1:17:01 split hold probably is the best adductor exercise you could do.

1:17:05 You don't have to force the ROM,

1:17:07 but just spread the legs and hold with those hip qualities.

1:17:10 Yeah, I don't know.

1:17:10 And if I'm like spread like this and I'm holding my dumbbells here.

1:17:15 Yeah.

1:17:16 Like would that that what you're talking about?

1:17:19 Um you probably wouldn't need dumbbells right away,

1:17:21 but you'd looking at certain hip qualities like

1:17:24 on where your hips are located and and positioned first.

1:17:27 I don't even think you need dumbbells for most people like if you

1:17:30 just spread the legs open and you actually understand the quality of the hip,

1:17:33 you're going to get a huge stimulus on your adductors.

1:17:39 Okay.

1:17:39 All right, what What about Okay, if if I'm looking at like Squat U,

1:17:42 the the the strength and conditioning world, the fitness world right now,

1:17:47 what do you think guys like like someone like Aaron,

1:17:50 he's had a huge impact on a lot of people.

1:17:53 Like a a lot of people have positively come out of you know,

1:17:56 been impacted by him.

1:17:58 And I I even like, you know,

1:17:59 I'll take sometimes I'll I'll look at something like

1:18:01 Athlean-X and I'll sort of like it triggers me,

1:18:04 but at the same time I'm like, you know what?

1:18:06 A lot of people have been they benefit from that first step into fitness.

1:18:11 And I guess my question was going to be is like what do you

1:18:14 see as like where they've gone wrong

1:18:19 and where they've where what they're missing in their message as far as like

1:18:23 a potential for improvement to bridge this loaded

1:18:29 slightly more intense movement pattern movement training

1:18:33 into into the the overarching sphere of of fitness.

1:18:39 I think they just haven't done enough work

1:18:41 in the areas that they talk about like they know about.

1:18:44 Like like they they're talking about these uh disciplines

1:18:48 of training uh like they've done it and they haven't.

1:18:54 Okay.

1:18:53 I didn't I didn't really foster a solid opinion about stretching

1:18:57 and flexibility until I did it for a long time and studied

1:19:01 the different worlds and kind of came up with my own conclusions

1:19:04 and I don't think enough coaches spend the time to do that.

1:19:07 We're just saying or you know, echoing what has been said by other people

1:19:13 that we probably look up to and that's fine.

1:19:16 But I think it's important to recognize that if that person hasn't done the work

1:19:20 to even understand what it is the person

1:19:22 who's having success at doing it is doing.

1:19:25 Like if he's going to say stretching doesn't work and it's a waste of time,

1:19:29 but then if you look at my client

1:19:30 my account and all my clients are having great success

1:19:33 stretching and they're just doing it in a bit

1:19:35 of a different way or they're thinking about it differently.

1:19:37 Like why wouldn't you at least try to see

1:19:40 what's going on that's different or try to understand it.

1:19:43 And that's always been even for me I try to do

1:19:45 that where if a new idea or thought is brought forward,

1:19:49 before I make an assumption,

1:19:51 I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to like investigate this a bit,

1:19:54 see like what what's worth taking from it and you know,

1:19:57 there's always something.

1:19:59 You're always going to get something from an idea

1:20:02 even if it's an idea that you've heard of before.

1:20:04 It's just being, you know,

1:20:05 repeated a different way and I think what drives people crazy

1:20:10 that have been around for a while when Aaron and Wenning

1:20:13 start saying uh really uh limited thoughts like that is like

1:20:18 they just haven't done any work in those areas they're talking about.

1:20:22 It's like I would argue that one of the reasons that a lot

1:20:24 of these powerlifters can't do Jefferson curls

1:20:26 very well is because of their frame.

1:20:28 They got these big protruding kind of guts and we have to figure out how to get

1:20:33 them doing spine flexion a bit differently than

1:20:35 a yoga person because their frame is different, right?

1:20:38 So, they're going to be under way more pressure in spine flexion when they get

1:20:42 in those ranges than someone who would be more slim kind of set up, right?

1:20:48 So, it's like we're not thinking about those things.

1:20:49 We're just like thinking in absolutes and as you know,

1:20:53 someone coming from the throwing world, that's just not how it works, man.

1:20:56 Right.

1:20:57 Yeah, 100%.

1:20:58 It's like um it's a it's an it as the kids would call it a low IQ um statement,

1:21:09 I guess, to a point.

1:21:10 Um I I think your answer is is great because it's like look,

1:21:15 there unless you really really understand it and like I could I you know,

1:21:19 personally I cuz I think about myself in the range community

1:21:24 as sort of like this outsider maybe knocking on a door like,

1:21:26 "Hey, I'm here." But I'm not I'm not in it to the extent I'm

1:21:30 not in the club because I'm not I haven't done enough in that regard.

1:21:34 I've done a I we I actually want to send you uh I might DM you after

1:21:39 this to try and get your cell phone cuz I I have a pullover movement my brother

1:21:43 and I so we learn like this long straight

1:21:46 arm pullover and when we were like 14 where

1:21:49 we started bending our elbows and we called it

1:21:51 the Miracle Grow and I saw you use this.

1:21:53 I don't know if you've ever seen me post about it.

1:21:57 But I see like I can comment a little bit cuz we train full range.

1:22:01 We train with pauses.

1:22:02 We train with double bounces.

1:22:03 We train all these things in weird positions and I think it I think it is it is

1:22:09 a it's like just getting out of the their lane

1:22:14 when they have a lane that is quite established.

1:22:16 Like you know, it's fine to get out of your lane if you have other lanes

1:22:19 or if you have other areas that you've sort

1:22:21 of played around with that can sort of blend.

1:22:23 But when you're so just sort of stuck here, It it Yeah,

1:22:29 you haven't spent enough time to really comment on it.

1:22:32 Um Yeah.

1:22:33 Yeah, and I think it would be it would it would probably

1:22:35 be dogmatic of me to say that like my[ __] works for everyone.

1:22:39 I know it doesn't, right?

1:22:40 Like I know some people just like really

1:22:42 don't like some doing some of those things

1:22:44 and um I I have to lean into the people that like doing it,

1:22:50 but I'm not going to sit here and say like,

1:22:51 "Oh, everyone's wrong because they don't like my shit." It's like,

1:22:55 well, you know, some people just like training a certain

1:22:57 way and they're fine with what they have, right?

1:23:00 And it's like I just got to learn to keep learning and growing

1:23:03 and leaning into the people that I've had success doing my stuff with, right?

1:23:07 But you get some people get really tied up

1:23:09 in their how they created their brand around a certain message.

1:23:14 Yeah.

1:23:14 That as soon as that message gets any

1:23:16 kind of flak or, you know, change of thought,

1:23:19 it's like they're not taking the time

1:23:22 see what's going on outside of their world.

1:23:24 And Yeah.

1:23:26 there's a lot of great things going on outside of that world,

1:23:28 including how it's affected my life.

1:23:31 12 years doing Jefferson curls now.

1:23:33 Um and I've trained them at a very high level.

1:23:36 Uh I can't say that I'm small by any means

1:23:39 like winning would say or that I've been seriously injured.

1:23:42 That's where I love that your your response is like, "Well,

1:23:45 I don't think I'm that small." But, you know,

1:23:50 you know what the world's like on social media.

1:23:51 You a lot of people are chasing attention

1:23:53 and sometimes that's the way you do it, right?

1:23:56 But So, I got I have one more question and and it's based around I mean,

1:24:03 this is actually like a practical thing.

1:24:06 I like doing hangs myself.

1:24:07 I felt like it does help me when I go downstairs if

1:24:10 I'm sitting all day and I and I go down and do hangs.

1:24:13 I also at ti- at sometimes I'm like choking myself out.

1:24:17 Like I can feel my my pecs like literally choking myself out.

1:24:23 So, if you get somebody a heavier powerlifter,

1:24:25 how do you navigate that or what's a cue that they could use

1:24:28 to like slightly alter their their positioning

1:24:32 so that they're not feeling as light-headed?

1:24:35 Yeah, I think I would just get them taking some slack out of the hang.

1:24:39 Like, if they're if they're completely relaxed at the shoulder girdle,

1:24:42 I would get them just like actually pulling into some active um position.

1:24:47 That's really what the hollow body does anyway.

1:24:49 If you try to get someone to hollow out in a hang,

1:24:51 to kind of pack the shoulder a little bit more, right?

1:24:54 So, so Yeah, that's quite common.

1:24:56 That happens to me, too.

1:24:56 If I relax in my hang, I can feel myself getting light-headed.

1:25:00 To to a point where I'm like, okay,

1:25:01 I got to like just pack down a little bit here.

1:25:03 Not all the way, but I mean, that's that's a nice progression anyway.

1:25:06 Just learn how to articulate your your shoulder blades in a hang

1:25:09 is a really nice way to kind of layer off of just hanging.

1:25:13 Um Okay.

1:25:15 Okay, Lucas, I want to ask you to I want

1:25:19 you to give me a question for our next guest,

1:25:22 but I'm going to give you time to think

1:25:24 about it because I'm going to go through this.

1:25:25 I've got I I have a a slight summary here.

1:25:29 And I've got horse stance, long lunge,

1:25:34 hit some elephant walks, do some pull-overs.

1:25:38 I'm going to personally play around with some one-hand work,

1:25:40 some Steinborn tap Steinborn tap, some bridges as accessories.

1:25:45 I'm going to put that into some of my athletes' accessory area.

1:25:49 Cool.

1:25:49 Um and that's where we're going to start

1:25:50 to play around with some of those ranges,

1:25:53 slowly building that out into some type of application.

1:25:57 Um and take that as slow as possible and not deviate too much

1:26:02 from what what what I sort of uphold as like the strength standards,

1:26:06 but almost sort of just packing this stuff on as accessories

1:26:11 um as a as a lesson almost from you.

1:26:13 And I And I I want to just tell you like in the beginning you had

1:26:16 said like don't veer too far off of what you really like to do and that struck

1:26:21 a chord with me being a thrower I've almost always sort of um gotten away

1:26:28 from throwing in my fitness stuff and at the end

1:26:31 of the day I'm still[ __] thrower.

1:26:32 I still love throwing[ __] I still love rotating and I still

1:26:35 love training and I still love[ __] smashing weights and[ __] right

1:26:38 and it's like it made me as I was saying as we're

1:26:41 going through this podcast like I'm taking these lessons and these exercises

1:26:45 and this practical application that you just gave us and and and also

1:26:49 the time horizon 18 24 months is some of the stuff

1:26:52 you had said in here takes time and and and I I

1:26:56 appreciate all of the these lessons uh and and the the direct

1:27:02 fit that I'm going to try and plug into the into our system

1:27:05 here so I really am grateful for this um

1:27:09 and I wanted to let you know and I think and and correct

1:27:11 me if I'm wrong if if those are some good lessons

1:27:13 that we could use as a even the listener out there today

1:27:17 is like horse stance elephant walks long stance or long lunge uh

1:27:22 the bridges pullovers one hand work read some old school books you

1:27:27 dropped a bunch so I I really do I value all this.

1:27:31 Yeah yeah for sure man I think that's a good takeaway.

1:27:35 Okay.

1:27:35 Give me if you don't what would be the next question the the question

1:27:39 that you would want to ask someone and you don't know who it's going to be.

1:27:43 Mhm.

1:27:44 I need to think about what I've been dealing with lately.

1:27:47 Um mhm I think maybe I wonder if a nutrition

1:28:05 question would be all right for the next guest.

1:28:08 Yeah I think that'd be fine.

1:28:12 Um there's a lot of talk I guess I see a lot of influencers

1:28:16 talking about whatever you want and you can still lose weight kind of thing.

1:28:20 Um I'm just I guess I'm I would be curious to hear what

1:28:24 the next uh guest has to say around that if they've had success

1:28:29 you know staying in in lean fit shape eating whatever they want

1:28:33 but having their calories uh or macros whatever just kind of fit in place.

1:28:39 Cuz uh I've I've found that as I got older like I really I can't the older

1:28:42 I get I don't know about you but if I'm eating like if I have too many

1:28:48 cheat meals or meals where I'm like

1:28:49 that my joints and inflammation and things like that kind

1:28:53 of skyrocket through the roof but you know

1:28:57 certainly I'm not the nutrition guy by any means.

1:29:00 I I kind of have a good base of knowledge to ensure

1:29:03 that anyone I help or ask questions about gets a a good

1:29:06 you know understanding and I point them in the right direction but I

1:29:10 don't know maybe you have some thoughts on that too but that's

1:29:13 I I was just going to say so we've had Lane Norton we had uh her name's Dr.

1:29:17 Jessie Hoffman uh Lane Norton's hasn't come out yet and then we

1:29:21 have um another nutritionist that we're bringing on in a in 2 weeks.

1:29:26 We had coach John John uh Heck come on and dude I would I

1:29:33 feel like I could possibly speak for them but I'm going to speak for myself.

1:29:37 I'm actually in the middle of a YouTube video.

1:29:41 Yeah.

1:29:40 Where I'm eating the exact same meal at breakfast at lunch and at dinner

1:29:45 but like the breakfast every day for 2 weeks is the same meal.

1:29:50 The lunch is the same meal for all lunches and then

1:29:52 my dinner is the same meal and then I get one snack.

1:29:55 And essentially it's like pigeonholing me into my macros

1:30:00 which is uh I cut my macros by like 800 calories but I wanted to make sure I

1:30:05 would get 40 g of fiber 200 g of protein,

1:30:08 and then the rest is carbs, and I got like 40 to 60 g of fat.

1:30:13 So, last night I had told my myself at the beginning of the video, you know,

1:30:18 when we're in the process of filming it, that I was like,

1:30:20 you know, I'm going to I'm going to get one cheat meal.

1:30:22 We had this hospital come down,

1:30:24 and they they they did strength and conditioning with us for the whole weekend.

1:30:27 They They learned from us.

1:30:29 And I had a piece of pizza, one piece of pizza.

1:30:33 Dude, my farts, my stomach, I I'm like sitting here like,

1:30:39 dude, I feel like I'm about to implode.

1:30:42 And like, I've eaten pizza and been fine.

1:30:44 And I'm just my stomach is so in line right

1:30:47 now from just 2 weeks of like eating oatmeal, pears,

1:30:52 bananas, um an avocado, a pound of chicken, um some chia seeds,

1:30:59 and and like it's and then I have sauerkraut.

1:31:01 That's like my meals, right?

1:31:03 Like those spread out throughout the the day.

1:31:05 And just adding on like, oh, I can eat whatever I want.

1:31:08 Dude,[ __] If I was eating pizza all day, even if it fit my macros,

1:31:12 I'd feel like[ __] Like you you To to your point on the the joints,

1:31:17 like your energy drops.

1:31:18 And then on top of that, you start to feel like crap.

1:31:20 You want to eat more pizza.

1:31:22 So, now I want to eat a whole a whole pizza pie instead of one piece.

1:31:25 Now I'm going to get fatter.

1:31:26 Yeah.

1:31:28 That's interesting.

1:31:29 It's interesting So, sorry.

1:31:30 I I went off on a rant from your question,

1:31:32 but that's a great question for the for the next guest.

1:31:34 I want you to plug your network and uh where people can find you.

1:31:39 Uh I think Instagram is probably the best

1:31:41 place to get into the Range of Strength stuff.

1:31:43 It's been around the longest, but I am on YouTube.

1:31:46 Uh I'm on all the platforms now.

1:31:48 That's been a hard push the last couple years to get out on all those areas,

1:31:51 but Instagram's probably your best bet to get into everything we do,

1:31:55 and there's a community there now, the Range of Strength Network, you know,

1:31:58 and it's like people that are into the crazy[

1:32:01 __] And they're they're into the message, right?

1:32:03 Of like training unconventional and doing some different stuff.

1:32:07 So, I think that's a good place to start.

1:32:11 Absolutely.

1:32:11 All right, thanks coach Lucas Hardie of Range of Strength.

1:32:15 Thanks for having me on.

1:32:17 Peace.