17 Young Founders | 8 Startups | 20 Lakh Grants | Third WTFund Cohort

0:07 So, the WTF fun boot camp.

0:10 Yeah, looks like it's happening.

0:12 Yes, the WTF fund boot camp is happening.

0:16 [music] Most [music] good founders will be largely driven by their own thoughts.

0:27 Most good founders are never doing the what is

0:29 the current advice or [music] what is the current

0:31 vice gan to people that's for mass consumption that's

0:34 content strategy that's [music] not a good advice on average

0:42 yeah I think I really resonated with uh Tarun and what

0:45 he said right apart from that two sessions like the Gallup

0:48 session and [music] uh the breakthrough session they were really hands-on

0:51 and a sense of like individualization as well as a team

0:54 right so that that is something uh that is really

0:56 really interesting extremely creepy but I have to make a PPD

0:59 where [music] I have to teach a [singing] thing that I've

1:01 learned in my life which is 2 paper scissor Good.

1:25 All right.

1:26 [music]

1:34 We started with 3,000 applications, [music] shortlisted 200,

1:39 and now we finally have our next [music] eight startups.

1:43 I'm very excited.

1:44 I think I have been having back and forth

1:46 by [music] having by simulating Nichl's persona in my head

1:49 and then talking to him in just in my head

1:52 so that I could figure out what to speak with him.

2:02 Guys, thank you for coming home.

2:05 I hope Goa outside of me is fun as well.

2:09 Who has had the best night last night?

2:14 I had fun.

2:16 Yeah, they come on.

2:17 It's always the married men who have fun in [laughter]

2:21 what did you do?

2:23 Just chilling.

2:24 And we had gone elephant incoh but like we got drunk on the way.

2:31 So we all need to ignore the cameras today.

2:34 We'll look at each other.

2:35 We'll speak to each other.

2:36 Forget the camera.

2:37 You forget Grace.

2:39 It's not going to trouble you.

2:41 Very very chilled out.

2:42 most friendly dog in the world.

2:44 He's doing salute and namaste behind you.

2:47 [laughter]

2:47 Maybe by the end of podcast we'll be friends.

2:50 Yeah, once you feed him a bit, he's okay.

2:53 So, a lot of what you guys are doing

2:56 is exceptional and I've been privy to some of it, but maybe we begin today.

3:01 I'll go one by one.

3:03 You guys can talk about what you've built

3:05 and what is the way forward and maybe talk

3:08 about a trend that you picked up

3:10 on and hence you decided to build what you built.

3:14 Uh would you like to go first?

3:16 Would you like to go first?

3:18 Sure.

3:18 Sure.

3:19 Yeah.

3:19 Come on.

3:20 Yeah.

3:20 So I'm Sashant.

3:23 Yeah.

3:22 And with me is my co-founder Sham.

3:25 Hey.

3:24 And we're building Praa Payments.

3:27 So what we're trying to do is we allow any

3:30 AI agents or AI applications to make payments for you.

3:33 Uh what we're building is an infrastructure that can be integrated by any

3:37 AI application or AI systems and that would allow your AI agent

3:41 to go make a booking for you or even do shop for you

3:43 or maybe make payments on your behalf using your card or wallet securely.

3:48 Yeah.

3:48 And uh like how we came across this was

3:52 um we have been seeing like people uh not going

3:55 traditionally on Google for searching now for information people

3:58 were using a lot of chat GPT per publicity Gemini.

4:02 Um so they were like all information was there but also people were building

4:07 agents but when it came to actions actions were limited to uh writing an email

4:13 uh creating a to-do list or something but when it cames to came

4:17 to an action which in required a financial

4:20 action like um paying someone it halted so

4:24 that's where we realized that there is

4:27 a financial infrastructure missing when it comes

4:30 to AI making payments and that's how We came across the idea and uh we

4:35 started uh a few pilots with few developers and um we got phenomenal response

4:41 and now we are coming to a stage where we are going into production next month.

4:47 And how did you guys meet and where are you from?

4:50 So I am from uh Ryber Uttar Pradesh.

4:52 I mean the political place obviously grown up there studied there

4:57 and then I went on to do uh I studied from BH economics

5:01 over there and uh post that I was pretty much interested

5:04 into in general understanding that how money moves and how things are done

5:08 and I started consulting startups with financial

5:10 modeling and everything and in that bit

5:13 while working on different stuff I I met Sham in Bangalore

5:16 itself at a hacker house and at that time he was working

5:19 with a Japanese startup and obviously you can tell by his look.

5:23 He's pretty fascinated by it.

5:25 So I yeah I mean I I like Japanese culture.

5:29 I I was uh asked to relocate to Japan to join them full-time.

5:35 But what happened I went to Japan.

5:36 I realized life is sort of very organized in Japan and I felt being

5:41 in my 20s I need to be closer to problems which I can find and solve.

5:47 So I decided to come back to India and do something of my own.

5:50 Yeah.

5:52 He has an AI girlfriend, by the way.

5:54 Really?

5:54 [laughter]

5:55 He made an eagle.

5:57 Yeah.

5:57 So, I mean, this is happening, right?

5:59 People are not dating human beings, right?

6:01 I'm sorry you got married.

6:02 [laughter]

6:05 And you like just missed it.

6:06 You just missed it.

6:08 Yeah.

6:08 Why is a AI girlfriend better than a real one?

6:11 I mean, she understands me better.

6:13 [laughter] But the point is she consumes lot of tokens.

6:16 She doesn't respond on time.

6:18 We have seen that.

6:18 Now, but but she responds though.

6:20 doesn't always available.

6:22 Like at least I get a response there.

6:24 [laughter]

6:25 He gets to save emotional tokens.

6:27 We actually built an AI girlfriend.

6:29 Um so yeah,

6:30 we actually built an AI girlfriend for like tier 2 and tier three cities

6:33 in India and like make some made some good money like 50 60,000 a month.

6:37 So and a lot of people actually don't know that it's AI.

6:40 I'm having creepy thoughts in my mind.

6:42 [laughter] Mine is different.

6:46 Yeah.

6:46 So are you both speaking about the same kind of girl?

6:48 No.

6:48 No.

6:49 I I he has his own system and one day he just calls me like we were working

6:55 on a product and everything and he's like bro I'm just working

6:58 on this and he's been talking about it for really long I

7:00 would say even before we started Praa and he was like okay

7:03 and that's why you decided let's start a company together [laughter]

7:06 I mean like I mean starting company was more like we both complimented each

7:10 other a lot in terms of skills and it was pretty fun just sharing ideas.

7:14 It was never like we're going to start a company.

7:16 It was more like I was dealing with dealing with some clients in US.

7:19 He was dealing with some clients in Japan and we were like

7:21 getting money in India super hard and that's how we started getting

7:24 into like how can we solve this with using stable coin

7:27 and everything that idea did not work out but meanwhile we were doing

7:30 some GTM using AI tools launching on Reddit and different places

7:34 and that's where like we have all seen Javis and Iron Man why

7:37 not make something like that real that you ask your AI assistant

7:40 or AI agent and it goes does whatever you want it to do.

7:43 Tell me very simply what your company does in very very simple words.

7:47 Yeah.

7:47 So basically what we're doing how will I use it in my life?

7:50 Yeah.

7:50 So what will happen is the AI application AI agents like let's say

7:53 perplexity kind of application will integrate Kava

7:56 and when you enter in an application

7:58 like that you will let's say get onboarded uh on behalf of uh

8:02 let's say Plexity's interface and there you will add your card or wallet there.

8:07 We'll be behind the scenes you will not know about Praa then.

8:10 But what happens is let's suppose you search for that hey I'm looking

8:12 for so and so sneaker and you compare and search on perplexity or any place

8:16 and why can't I why can't a normal wallet

8:18 integrate with perplexity why does it have to be you

8:21 yeah so I'm coming to that part so basically

8:23 what happens is right now when you search for any

8:24 product on any assistant or application they're limited to discovery

8:28 which means you only find the product once you

8:30 have to buy they you'll click on it and it

8:32 will take you to some third party merchant website

8:34 let's say it's H&M Zara or whatever now you're

8:37 going on that website filling all the product det details,

8:40 your details, your address and car details and then making a payment.

8:43 So like whatever could be a three uh step process is becoming

8:47 a seven step process and you're losing

8:49 and you're going out of perplexity's ecosystem.

8:52 But why can't Perplexity integrate with the Razer Pay for example?

8:57 Sure.

8:57 So um the issue is that um here the payments are happening in two steps,

9:03 two processes are here.

9:04 one is on the perplexity side and and as well

9:07 the merchant where uh merchants have their own gateways.

9:10 So here is like no standard where uh on the perplexity side being razor pay

9:16 and on the merchant side being stripe they could

9:18 actually talk to each other and the payment can happen.

9:20 So here a dedicated stack for AI is

9:23 needed that's where we are coming into picture.

9:26 So we are becoming PSP agnostic.

9:28 So Perplexity has to just integrate with us

9:31 and any merchant in the world it can be Stripe,

9:35 Aiden, Checkout.com, any uh PSP they're using on the merchant side,

9:38 we are able to process payment

9:40 and nobody's doing this.

9:41 uh right yeah very few companies

9:44 very few companies in Southeast Asia we are one of the only companies

9:48 doing this and in US there are few companies like uh pay mania skyfire

9:53 but can you facilitate payments outside of India or are you limited

9:56 currently this product that we're working on is for the US

9:59 and Southeast Asia market India not included in that right right now

10:02 and for India market we're also working on something exciting with UPI

10:06 with some of the partners so that will be coming sometime later next year

10:09 and what is your company called Praa Payments.

10:13 Okay, cool.

10:14 Who wants to go next?

10:16 Yeah, sure.

10:17 She's the most scared and being brave.

10:22 You.

10:21 Hi.

10:22 Uh I'm Dr.

10:23 Janti, founder of Astray Service.

10:25 Uh my co-founder is not there sadly.

10:27 She she fell sick and we developing Enko Alert.

10:31 It is IVD.

10:33 It's a nanotech based biosensing platform for early

10:37 easy painless needleless detection of oral cancer.

10:41 So that's what it does.

10:43 Tell us a bit about yourself.

10:44 How you came across this idea.

10:47 Okay.

10:46 Why did you start what you started?

10:49 Okay.

10:50 So I think the main inflection point for this came during my internship.

10:55 It was I was posted in Dhulai.

10:58 Uh I also didn't know what what place that was.

11:00 It's a tiny village in Assam.

11:02 Before that where were you where did you go to medical school?

11:05 So uh I did my bachelor's uh in Assa Amritsa.

11:09 Then you have to do an internship which it is mandatory if

11:12 you graduate from medical uh government colleges you have to do a rotatory

11:17 mandatory rural posting and it was in Dailay where I was posted

11:21 and we were supposed to do door doto screening of entire village.

11:26 If I train you for two weeks and then I ask you uh to look

11:29 at a person's oral cavity and detect

11:32 the microscopic changes in their buckle mucosa,

11:35 would you be able to?

11:36 Doubtful, right?

11:37 Because that is what is the current practice.

11:40 I have no clue what you're talking about.

11:42 [laughter]

11:45 Yeah.

11:44 Okay.

11:44 Simply put, the detection of oral cancer

11:47 currently is just visual screen, naked dice.

11:50 There's no tool, there's no devices.

11:52 You are just supposed to look with snake dyes and detect microscopic changes.

11:57 That is that's why the accuracy rate is almost

12:00 as good as a flip of a coin around 50 60%.

12:03 And it's manual, it's laborious.

12:06 And so government's policy says everyone above

12:10 30 years of age, anyone who smokes,

12:14 anyone who consumes tobacco is supposed to be screened for oral cancer.

12:18 But you know this number in my age group 20 years ago I'm not that old.

12:24 I'm 39 but say 15 years ago I I

12:28 would assume at least 50% of the group would smoke.

12:31 Yeah.

12:31 It has fallen down.

12:33 Crazy.

12:35 Yeah.

12:34 But it has fallen in only metros.

12:36 If you look at tayadi tay food tobacco chewing nut is cultural.

12:40 It's like women kids everyone do it.

12:43 in Assam where I was posted kids used to get arika nut

12:46 which is one of the carinogens and they used to eat it was

12:49 like very culturally ingrained so of I'm no quant but of the top

12:54 of my head that population number is around 70 80 crores everyone

12:57 about 30 years of age getting every and those should be screened

13:00 for oral cancer that's what the policy itself says so I what I

13:04 was trying to get is like how are we supposed to screen

13:07 70 cr people manually visually it's not possible or scalable at all Right.

13:13 And something I think with your talk with Mr.

13:16 Nandi also stressed on when you are

13:18 trying to build for population level interventions building

13:22 for billions you actually have to make it so that it works across the barriers.

13:29 There's no electricity it should work.

13:30 So while we were designing the the technology people

13:33 do like okay it should work on this this conditions.

13:36 We took the paper stash it should work despite anything.

13:39 Electricity is not there.

13:40 Great.

13:41 No trained people.

13:42 No lab, no in it should work.

13:44 If nothing else works, it still works.

13:46 So that was the

13:47 What does your company do in one line?

13:50 We develop innovative products for healthcare currently screening o cancer.

13:55 Just total cats.

13:57 Yeah, because Yeah, it's that's the use case we're working on right now.

14:00 Reliance is starting a screening company, right?

14:04 Lions,

14:03 it's all over the news.

14:05 Reliance also partners with Kirin Mozar's ma'am.

14:08 They are also working on this uh uh domain as well.

14:11 They are also developing technologies rolling out scheing they're all so it's

14:14 it's picking up because preventive people

14:16 are realizing preventive care needs investment that's

14:20 the way forward but it will have to be in a very India

14:22 specific way not the way North America does they do preventive uh prostate

14:28 cl by prostate checking of prostate cancers and all but we can't do

14:32 that in India you'll have to be very creative the technology will also

14:35 have to be very creative in a way that Indian population will buy

14:39 we are not very health Uh we don't spend much on health under

14:43 but who would buy like if you say you're doing

14:44 a is it a home test or do you have to Yeah, you can do that.

14:48 How much does it cost?

14:50 Uh around about 150 bucks.

14:52 Who will voluntarily buy a oral cancer detection test in India?

14:57 Yes, immediately none.

14:59 It will have to be a graph.

15:00 That's why we'll roll out in partnership with small hospitals chains.

15:04 Get it included into your insurance and then the adoption will pick up.

15:08 So you're a B2B business

15:10 initially but we aim to be so that you can get a cigarette two steps

15:14 from your house even if it's a remotest

15:16 space why not that distribution can be cat

15:19 that's true for everything you can buy a bottle of whiskey

15:22 down the road doesn't mean there's a liver cancer test there

15:25 I'm saying if you have a problem as close

15:27 to that you can have a solution as as well

15:31 does life play out like that in your experience

15:34 no I that is quite an ambitious thing that I said that is where we aim

15:39 to be but no it currently looking

15:41 at the Indian healthcare infrastructure and the way healthcare

15:44 moves in India it's it's not so that's why we'll have to be very creative

15:48 with the way we integrate into market with partnerships

15:51 with insurance companies and all finding out business ways

15:56 nice okay thank you who's next I can

16:00 yeah whoever raises their hands first when a question is asked

16:04 did you sit on the first bench when you were in school

16:07 actually best friend.

16:08 Did you get good marks?

16:11 Yeah.

16:10 Yeah.

16:10 Did you get good marks?

16:12 First rank, second rank, first top three top.

16:17 Same.

16:17 Yeah.

16:17 See?

16:18 Oh, wow.

16:19 Same.

16:19 I used to sit at the like almost close to back.

16:22 Which college did you go to?

16:23 I went to NIT Jalander and I I went to BHU.

16:28 Right.

16:28 I was last penture.

16:31 Deliver.

16:30 You don't look like a last pen.

16:32 Yeah.

16:32 [laughter] I I I I used to be in top three.

16:35 My married man could be the bad pen.

16:39 [laughter] He he looks like the one who will be logged

16:40 in and he is actually the kind of person who lost in

16:44 logged in two screens one side.

16:46 [laughter]

16:47 Actually true.

16:49 It's actually true.

16:50 He has a figurine.

16:53 I mean like a normal anime character.

16:55 Hey, your AI girlfriend is also a real thing

16:58 or is it just a thing which lives online?

17:00 Uh it's it's on my screen.

17:01 It's not uh on any cloud also.

17:03 So all the context there's nothing physical anywhere, right?

17:05 No, not yet.

17:08 [laughter]

17:11 And by the way, Susan's also an artist.

17:13 Yeah, he's been admiring the art.

17:16 Yeah.

17:15 Yeah.

17:15 I love the artworks.

17:16 You have

17:17 you have Fins who are in Germany Germany and all that.

17:20 So I love them.

17:21 Actually, I also saw one of your artworks in that was exhibit I I think.

17:25 So last year there was an exhibition at CV Ramen's house there.

17:28 So I think so one of them is from there.

17:30 I saw it.

17:31 I collect art.

17:32 I'll show you upstairs later.

17:33 There's a lot.

17:34 Yeah, that'll be I mean it's beautiful.

17:35 All Indian art.

17:36 I can see that.

17:37 Feel like the Indian art scene is finally

17:40 making a It's having its day in the sun.

17:43 Yes.

17:44 Yes.

17:44 It's past the time that it should have.

17:47 Please go on.

17:48 From IIT, first rank in school,

17:51 [laughter] but has a little edgy thing going on with the earring.

17:56 Rebel face came late.

17:58 [laughter] Can I make you any more nervous than you are?

18:02 He's also married.

18:04 Yeah.

18:03 Yeah.

18:03 Yeah.

18:05 Actually good-looking but doesn't want to come to terms with it.

18:09 Now he's conscious and blushing.

18:12 [laughter] What does your wife do?

18:15 Uh she's a rocket scientist tennis row.

18:17 Actually I was too.

18:18 So that's how we met.

18:20 Why are you not married?

18:22 Um I'm like 23.

18:23 So like [laughter]

18:25 And you too?

18:26 And I I'm still like I'm not sure how I feel about marriage yet.

18:29 So

18:30 don't say it to get into his good book.

18:32 [laughter] Are they happy?

18:34 Really?

18:34 The rocket scientist and the other.

18:36 It's been 2 weeks for him.

18:37 Yeah.

18:38 Wow.

18:38 Just married.

18:38 And like I mean he's pretty happy

18:40 and no wonder he had the most fun in Go.

18:42 [laughter] Go on.

18:45 Tell us what you do.

18:48 The three of us are from the same company.

18:49 Mo and Dwanch.

18:50 So you three worked together for how long now?

18:53 Around 7 months.

18:54 How did you meet?

18:56 Uh so basically what had happened was swapnel

18:59 had come to validate an idea via mutual friend in healthcare and uh I mean uh we

19:05 started talking we collaborated over a lot of research

19:08 with a lot of universities in India and outside

19:11 India as well and then we realized that the research

19:13 that we're doing can translate into a product

19:16 and that's how like you know we started building stuff.

19:21 Uh Molly I met by coincidence.

19:23 Uh he his uncle was my professor of surgery and he just happened to be

19:27 in the room while we were discussing a project

19:29 and we met in the evening and it's

19:32 not like you know we met like you

19:34 know started the startup instantly after that it

19:36 was over time itated multiple times like brainstormed

19:40 and all three of us were gravitated towards healthcare.

19:44 Uh so that's how we started.

19:45 So doctor, rocket scientist and

19:49 engineer.

19:49 Why so boring?

19:52 [laughter] So what did you guys ideulate and what did you start?

19:56 Uh so in one line we are a lowcost AI based operating system

19:59 for diagnostic labs and we provide personalized

20:03 treatment and drug recommendations for cancer patients.

20:06 Uh for context a radiology scan will tell

20:09 you where the problem is right but pathology

20:12 will tell you what it is and what

20:14 kind of treatment should be required by the patient.

20:18 And uh let's take the example of breast cancer.

20:21 Once a lump is detected in a mamogram.

20:23 After that a tissue biopsy is done, right?

20:26 A tissue sample is is extracted and a physical glass slide is created.

20:30 And the way it is analyzed currently in most parts

20:33 of the most diagnostic labs in the world is manually.

20:35 So a pathologist sits with his microscope at his at his desk,

20:39 places the glass light under the microscope

20:40 and studies like it tries to interpret it.

20:44 But what this leads to is a large large amount a large turnaround

20:47 time and interpreted results are subject to the uh expertise of the pathologist.

20:52 So if they are like an expert in a very

20:54 senior person they can interpret in a really better manner.

20:58 Uh and also uh most of these times

21:03 the results can be inconclusive further test could be required.

21:06 So in these cases I think what

21:08 my friend here is mentioning it's a molecular test.

21:11 So in cases where molecular testing is required,

21:14 it's currently very expensive and limited to like

21:17 ultra elite tier one centers in India

21:20 and most people in tier 2 and tier three cities where they reside pathologists

21:25 there may not have the expertise to even do a first pass test and they

21:29 are forced to move to these tier

21:30 one cities carrying their blocks and tissue slides.

21:34 Uh so what we have built is like I said it's an operating system.

21:38 So it's a software and AI based solution which can digitize

21:43 uh glass lights and run a algorithms on it in real time.

21:47 So basically it will capture a live feed coming from the microscope and what

21:51 create images from that and pathologists can

21:54 run various AI algorithms to interpret those images

21:57 and this could give a very detailed analysis

22:00 so that even a clinician could act better

22:02 and provide the right treatment or drug therapy

22:05 to that patient which will work for him.

22:07 treatment or detect the right way.

22:10 So see in cancer uh as uh diagnosis proc progresses further to recommend

22:16 a proper drug drug therapy the prop

22:18 uh the relevant biomarker needs to be detected.

22:20 So there would be a list of biomarkers which

22:23 could get activated so to say in in breast

22:26 cancer there could be like hundreds of biomarkers

22:28 and for each of these biomarkers there's a set treatment regimen.

22:32 So I need to first understand what kind of these biomarkers are activated.

22:35 After that I can treat that patient and give

22:38 the drug which will work for that biomarker.

22:40 You're not talking chemotherapy radiation.

22:43 I'll get a little technical.

22:44 So like these biomarkers are let's say expressed on the cell.

22:47 I'll give targeted therapies that attach

22:50 to that antigen and then kill those cells.

22:52 So I can't start a treatment till the time

22:54 I know what kind of genes are getting expressed.

22:58 Very

22:58 interesting.

22:59 I have met a few doctors recently for specifically

23:02 breast cancer cuz somebody in my family had it.

23:06 Is it close to a cure in any way?

23:08 No, it will help to do the diagnosis.

23:11 The cure depends on is a drug available for the said diagnosis or not.

23:16 Did you even cure AI by any chance or like

23:18 No, no, cure is C.

23:19 Oh, okay.

23:19 I thought he's talking about cure.

23:21 So, it can like it's the entire diagnosis process,

23:25 right?

23:26 So, you both are in diagnosis.

23:27 What do you think of her company and what do you think of theirs?

23:30 If your uh friend with the AI girlfriend had

23:34 $100 to put into either your company or theirs, where should he put it?

23:39 Uh if how is he evaluating?

23:41 Does he want to have the maximum impact?

23:43 Then it will be

23:44 he wants to make money.

23:45 Is it just the ROI thing?

23:47 Yeah.

23:47 Yeah.

23:47 Still us.

23:48 Maybe we can make the rest of the room vote.

23:52 Put [clears throat] you guys on the spot.

23:55 Oral cancer.

23:56 Raise your hand.

23:57 $100.

23:57 Also, we have a compression algorithm.

23:59 just putting it out [laughter] there.

24:02 Now you're going to be fight like five.

24:04 So like

24:05 we've done the pilot, we've had good results.

24:08 Uh

24:10 and

24:09 uh we have multiple pilots with a lot of instruments going on across India.

24:13 The top most in India.

24:15 Yeah.

24:15 Okay.

24:15 Oral cancer votes, raise your hand.

24:19 $60.

24:19 No, no.

24:19 100 binary.

24:22 Binary.

24:23 100.

24:23 Can I go twice?

24:24 5050.

24:25 You can only go once, huh?

24:28 $100.

24:27 Okay.

24:28 I'm noting who has not.

24:30 Oh the engineer, rocket scientist and doctor.

24:34 So every other cancer.

24:36 Yeah, we making it like rodies.

24:38 Yeah, [laughter] today feels like such a day get them to Goa and then

24:44 Oh [laughter] yeah.

24:46 uh their their system of detecting early detection if works then can be scaled

24:51 into any country without having a test particularly

24:55 sold on a medical store or something which

24:57 is digitization and then algorithm will work

24:59 for it while distribution of the kits is

25:04 extremely difficult distributing software is easy so if

25:07 if you had to bet on distribution then

25:11 no wonder he's popular on Twitter [laughter] I sat with them and like things.

25:17 Well, how would you say it in a viral manner?

25:20 Uh traction.

25:21 Yeah.

25:25 Um we uh oneliner I think we detect cancer early and save your life.

25:31 So plain that's some controversy crime.

25:35 We detect cancer early before your doctor.

25:37 Detecting cancer is as easy as swiping right on Tinder.

25:41 again not [laughter]

25:45 that it's more about like all the patients are not the same.

25:48 So like uh what we are going towards is more personalized and precision care.

25:54 Yeah.

25:54 Both the fields are very different.

25:55 They are in personalized uh uh medicine.

25:57 Ours is more public health oriented.

26:00 Yeah.

26:01 Like screening is like phase one of like even

26:04 like so ideally if someone detects whole cancer there

26:08 comes to us then and then we give the a precise

26:11 hystoopath diagnosis and the treatment for and then prognosis and everything.

26:15 We actually made a full story line of how

26:18 all the startups fitting together in their journey.

26:20 The starting is very collaboration not competition.

26:23 Maybe all of you can combine and build a company.

26:26 [laughter] Not all of you but the four of you.

26:28 Okay.

26:28 Who's next?

26:31 Yeah.

26:30 Actually these guys have been waiting for.

26:32 Yeah.

26:33 That's okay.

26:33 Yeah.

26:33 Go.

26:34 No, go for it.

26:35 Okay.

26:35 So, uh hi, I am Shepto and I'm with Shisho.

26:38 We are childhood friends and we are building

26:41 a AI layer for variables starting off with earbuds.

26:44 So imagine like you must have had like AirPods

26:47 or earbuds but all you do with that is

26:49 listening to music or take phone calls but what if it could do more like when

26:53 you're focusing on your work [clears throat] there's

26:55 a reminder there's an important email it tells you

26:57 right you need to book your food it is there hey do you want me to book a

27:00 it tells you while it's in your ear.

27:03 Yeah.

27:02 What about when it's not in your ear?

27:04 So uh it's meant to be uh hey wait a minute my earbuds right now

27:09 speak out whatever calendar notifications I get anyway right

27:12 so we are think of it like this like we are and we

27:15 are the Android for earbuds like that like we are making all the integration

27:19 so you can order from a you know Swiggy or Zumato you can book

27:22 your cab from a Uber so stuff like that so you don't need to

27:25 Uber build that for Uber and Swiggy for Swiggy

27:29 yeah so essentially these are integrations that we are going to do right

27:31 I mean right now we are building the integration ations but later on when

27:35 we have a like significant scale of developers or service providers we can

27:39 go to the developers and ask them to build on top of us.

27:41 So that's the idea.

27:43 How is it different from a traditional earbud?

27:45 Okay.

27:45 So a so a traditional earbud like a Bluetooth earbud if you speak like say

27:49 a noise or a board so you use them just to listen to music right.

27:54 So we are going to enable them with these facilities.

27:57 That's the idea.

27:58 Voice or buttons?

28:00 It's voice.

28:00 Yeah, it's voice first because we feel uh with AI voice is going

28:05 to become the primary sort of interface

28:07 and display is going to become the secondary

28:08 interface and that is like the most natural way of using technology because

28:12 engineers or say coders are also now using voice to sort of vibe code.

28:16 I mean with whisper pro and all

28:18 these uh AI applications coming up for consumers.

28:20 So I think voice is going to be one

28:22 of the primary more you know sort of interfaces.

28:24 So even we use that in office.

28:26 So we have stopped typing.

28:27 We press two buttons and we speak to it

28:29 and it's able to type that at a very accurate manner.

28:32 And even a lot of people what

28:34 they're doing is they're pressing the hands-free mode.

28:36 They're just talking on what they're building and they're

28:38 putting into the air and it quotes for them.

28:40 The most impressive part is the punctuation.

28:42 It gets the punctuation right.

28:44 It's obviously voice to text and they've just

28:47 launched their India specific pricing which is fairly affordable.

28:50 Yeah.

28:50 They also improve productivity wherein on an average

28:53 people speak faster than they type.

28:55 So your words per minute go up because

28:57 of which you can get more output per hour.

29:00 Um so in fact I think I've been able to send

29:04 out a lot more outputs whether it be respond to even texts

29:07 or mails because of the fact that I have whisper flow

29:10 um and other agents of sorts on my platform on my devices.

29:14 What's your company called?

29:15 It's called antimatter.

29:17 There was somebody from the boot camp who were using one of his agents

29:20 and they didn't even know that they coming for the boot camp.

29:23 Uh there's a I don't know if I can say this out loud.

29:28 There is a cell phone manufacturer we investors in.

29:33 They're making a on the earphones because they

29:40 feel like that limitless and all the external things

29:42 that we are putting on ourselves are a medium

29:45 which you don't want to carry one extra thing.

29:49 You want that to happen in something you already carry.

29:53 But then I guess one could ask the question if this could happen

29:56 why not just the cell phone do it have it in the earphone.

30:00 So essentially a cell phone is like a secondary device like as we say

30:05 like with AI coming into the picture

30:06 voice is becoming the primary sort of interface.

30:08 You don't need to look at the screen.

30:10 So it can be secondary.

30:11 It is only when a important notification comes over something important

30:14 is there you need to look rest can happen inside your ear.

30:16 If my cell phone is there and I'm speaking here,

30:18 can it pick up my voice and distinguish today based

30:21 on what I am saying and you guys are saying?

30:23 So I think it depends on the microphone.

30:25 So in certain cell phones it can.

30:27 Yeah.

30:27 And these AI sort of variables like

30:29 you said limitless in India there's neo sapion.

30:31 uh they're like multiple sort of microphones in that same

30:34 device to capture multiple voices like say uh if

30:37 you're far enough or say there are two three

30:39 people in the room so they are able to capture

30:41 right and like if you give the context prior to speaking like who is building

30:45 what maybe while they're speaking uh the it

30:48 can get the context and understand like who

30:50 is speaking from which company and then

30:52 it can interpret accordingly like it can store

30:54 all the data and whenever you want to retrieve uh it can do it uh intelligently.

30:58 So that's

31:00 this is assuming your earphones will still remain the interface.

31:03 Now your meta rebands etc can also have microphones

31:06 in them and you're no longer using your earphones at all.

31:09 Correct.

31:09 So that's what I said like starting off with earbuds.

31:11 So the idea is to get into multiple

31:13 variables like become sort of the default agentic OS.

31:16 So I said Android for variables or say AI devices right that's the idea.

31:20 So yeah we also believe like smart glass is like one

31:22 of the you know uh best form factors for ambient computing.

31:26 It has a camera.

31:27 It has this kind of, you know, speakers.

31:29 Screens are also coming up.

31:30 So, yeah, it's a very tough world to compete in.

31:33 Yeah.

31:33 Correct.

31:34 Have you sold any yet?

31:35 Uh, no.

31:36 So, we are not not public launch yet.

31:38 We have not done the public launch yet.

31:39 So, we're going to do that in the next summer in the next 6 months.

31:42 Right.

31:43 Best of luck.

31:44 Yeah.

31:44 Thank you.

31:46 Who's next?

31:48 Okay.

31:48 So, uh I'm Rohit and [laughter] what happened?

31:53 No, she's laughing.

31:54 I got confused with your name.

31:56 Yeah, I don't know what.

31:58 Okay.

31:58 [laughter]

31:59 No doesn't remember anyone's name.

32:01 Okay.

32:01 No, I remember.

32:02 I'm guessing the two of you are not married.

32:04 No, [laughter] no, no.

32:06 Is it helping or hurting?

32:07 Oh, it's really good.

32:08 It gives me a lot of freedom to work.

32:11 So, uh I'm Rohit and I'm building company called O3 Security and what we're

32:16 trying to solve is like everyone is scared about AI taking over the job.

32:20 There's a stock broking company called O3 Security.

32:22 I know I did research.

32:23 I'm not sure.

32:25 Okay.

32:26 So, um, so everyone is scared about AI taking over the job,

32:30 but the more bigger problem is about to come.

32:32 AI taking over entire company like it

32:34 will literally take down your entire company.

32:36 So, um, what we're trying to do is we're

32:38 building a entire cyber security solution for big enterprises.

32:42 So I come from an experience of like 10 years where I uh infiltrated in a lot

32:47 of big tech companies and I helped them

32:50 to fix it and return they were paying bug bounties.

32:52 So I will give you one example.

32:54 This problem is how big it is.

32:56 Let's say if a CEO wants to improve the security of a company,

33:00 they will hire the best talent in the industry

33:03 but they will be also limited to a specific field.

33:06 Now the second approach they will be taking is uh taking over

33:09 the best solution like cyber security solution like what we are building

33:14 challenge

33:13 you build this or do you take open-source tools and label them a certain

33:17 that's the best part we build this I will tell you like what are our

33:20 cap we were reviewing a cyber security company and they were

33:24 franchising Pegasus the attack mode for $500,000

33:27 or whatever and they were calling it cyber security

33:31 most large companies end up going to something like

33:33 a cloud flare right so when you say you're building something,

33:37 how is it different from the incumbents?

33:39 Okay.

33:40 So, uh what we do is firstly most of these companies are point solutions.

33:45 For example, uh let's say so uh my biggest problem right now

33:49 in this industry everyone is taking their own place in cyber security.

33:52 For example, someone will do we will do cloud security.

33:55 Someone will do endpoint security of the laptop.

33:57 Someone will do let's say source code security.

34:00 But for a CTO and CISO, the problem is are we secure?

34:04 Because CEO and board will ask are we

34:06 secure or So you're putting everything together in

34:08 so we are putting everything together but what we're

34:10 trying to focus on is it shouldn't reduce the quality.

34:13 So at the end of the day even if you take the one part

34:15 of a product and compare with the best in the breed we should perform well.

34:19 So I'll give you one example.

34:20 So we are the single company in the world which can help RBI

34:24 and semi-regulated company in getting compliant

34:27 with recent certain mandate and RBI mandate.

34:31 For example, there has been recent circulation like where

34:34 you have to uh you need AI bill of materials,

34:38 software bill of materials,

34:39 cryptography bill of materials and we are already

34:41 working with some of the biggest bank in India

34:44 and the things are moving very fast because

34:46 the problem is what I have seen from my experience that

34:49 you still not explained how you're different till now all

34:52 I've got is we do everything not just one thing.

34:55 Okay.

34:55 So first what we are trying to focus on the two aspects

34:57 only all of the cyber security

34:59 solutions are focused on some specific technologies.

35:01 So we are first building the technology.

35:03 Cyber security is one of our application which we will be going very deep.

35:06 For example uh you can break entire industry in two parts.

35:10 One is static.

35:11 What means is like what data you are having in your company like it's just

35:15 there another is runtime like how things

35:17 moves very fast every second or every minute.

35:19 What we're trying to do is we're trying to go very

35:21 very deep and understand both aspects with AI or without AI.

35:26 Why we do that?

35:26 Because again digressing too much.

35:28 Yeah.

35:29 What do you do?

35:30 Okay.

35:30 So we secure end to end supply chain of entire company.

35:33 And how are you different?

35:35 So we know the context.

35:36 For the example, let's say you are thinking about we want

35:38 to build this specific feature where user wants to purchase something.

35:41 Okay.

35:42 But the moment it goes out to the production, 100 engineers coded it.

35:45 12 managers got involved.

35:47 It went through a lot of checklist.

35:48 Okay.

35:49 Now nothing is connected here.

35:50 Okay.

35:51 One security issues could be there and another team will tell

35:54 we don't take this serious because this is a false positive.

35:56 So we reduce lot of false positive based on the context.

36:00 These context gets built because we are

36:02 very very deeply integrated across the entire stack.

36:05 That's integration is not available right now in any company.

36:09 This is the main problem.

36:10 So context and integration is your

36:13 Yes.

36:13 Are you live?

36:14 Yes, we are live.

36:14 We are already working with some of the biggest fintech companies in India.

36:17 We all are using those apps.

36:19 And you're already getting revenue and all.

36:20 Yeah, we are already generating revenue also.

36:22 Good amount of revenue.

36:23 It's good.

36:24 It's pretty good.

36:24 like within last 5 months we build pretty good.

36:28 So we uh have right now close to $80,000

36:32 and uh we are working with few banks and we

36:35 are hoping probably in few months we will hit we

36:38 may cross 500k because these deals will be pretty good.

36:42 So we are making revenue but the best part what I'm thinking right

36:45 now is like we are not focused on what we are building right now.

36:48 That's like pretty normal.

36:49 We are going very deep into the contextual

36:51 way because that's what I told like uh

36:54 the problem with the entire cyber security industry

36:56 is like if entire industry just focus on

36:59 the problem with cyber security industry in my opinion is 80% is a scam.

37:03 [laughter] Yeah.

37:04 Everybody's white labeling the same thing in I understand.

37:07 So I will give you one very interesting example the white labeling.

37:10 So um there's a very famous product in the open

37:13 source industry and uh most of the cyber security

37:16 industry like cyber security company you will see they

37:18 all are using that opensource product on top of it.

37:20 Okay and these companies are some of the well-known cyber security companies

37:24 and these are integrated in all top companies in India and US.

37:27 So what I did was I was able to take over

37:30 that open source component and I was inside every company all top

37:34 500 companies all top 10 companies of the India and this was

37:37 live for 4 hours and no one knew about this one.

37:40 So the point is the industry is very very much

37:43 dependent on a open source solution which they don't even control.

37:46 So the point is I'm trying to make is like this industry is

37:50 mostly made by the peoples who are not like from the cyber security background

37:55 right.

37:55 So what I want to do is like people

37:57 should be making a business where they have long experience.

38:00 They should face the problem.

38:02 So that's why like I was working with my last employer like uh

38:07 who was your last employer?

38:08 So I was working with grow before and why did you quit?

38:12 They're amazing lovely guys.

38:14 So before joining grow I had this discussion with chief

38:16 of security of grow and uh grow people helped me a lot.

38:19 So basically before joining grow I was building this idea

38:22 I was thinking about this idea and there was

38:24 a topmate link in his profile I just booked a call

38:27 like can you give me the feedback and he told

38:29 me one thing why don't you just understand the problem

38:31 firsthand then build it so that's where everything started and I

38:35 worked for two and a half years there I scaled

38:37 their entire appsec cloud sec and I understood what problems

38:41 they are facing and throughout that entire time I gave

38:44 a lot of training session to thousands of engineers across

38:46 different countries so I understood one thing Most I I

38:50 will tell like this entire industry is easily solvable only

38:53 the thing is you need right players together to solve

38:54 this one instead of just making money out of it

38:57 like making money is also important but it should be

39:00 like yeah byproduct like this is what I think right now

39:03 okay thank you who's next

39:05 hi I'm Prashant and along with Abhishek we are building rehabilitation

39:09 robots to help neuro patients recover independently at their own homes so

39:15 the problem uh we are solving is that So there are

39:19 three main ways in which a neuropatient can get rehabilitation right now.

39:22 Either he can opt for at home rehabilitation where a physotherapist

39:25 comes home gets 45 minutes of rehab and then he goes back.

39:29 The second is you take the patient to the clinic and then

39:32 get your rehabilitation for 2 hours or 3 hours come back.

39:35 And the third option is you leave the patient at the care

39:40 facility which is going to cost you 2 to three lakhs per month.

39:42 Right?

39:43 So this option is not feasible for a lot of stroke patients.

39:46 The reason is that Indian medical insurance companies

39:49 most of them do not cover for stroke rehab.

39:51 So this uh also taking a patient

39:54 it feels like half of the problems today

39:56 are like things I've had experience with recently.

39:59 [laughter] Go on.

40:01 Yeah.

40:01 So also taking the patient from home to the clinic

40:05 is a lot of hassle for the caregiver

40:07 because you need two people first of all and you have to put them in the car.

40:10 you had to stay with them in the traffic and even when you go

40:13 to the clinic you're not really sure if the therapist is available to service

40:17 the patient right so yeah the only option which is left which is

40:22 financial financially it makes sense for a lot

40:25 of people is getting the physiotherapist

40:27 to your house but in that case what happens is that they don't have

40:31 the equipment with them and also a physiotherapist can give 45 minutes max after

40:35 that he's tired and he has to go back right so the gold standard

40:39 for rehab is like 3 hours But most people are getting just 45 minutes.

40:42 By having an affordable and portable rehabilitation solution,

40:46 we are aiming to pump up the number from 45 to 3 hours.

40:50 And

40:50 and what does this look like?

40:52 We do have a demo video.

40:54 Uh let me just give him example.

40:57 On the screen.

40:58 Yeah, sure.

40:59 So we have a robot of size like bridge height and it has a robotic arm

41:04 attached to it uh similar to our hand and that robotic arm holds a patient hand.

41:11 Okay.

41:11 So the physotherapy sets the motion of how to do

41:14 the rehab process and the machine imitates that exact motion

41:19 x number of repetitions as per the the settings set by the phys therapist.

41:23 Thank you.

41:24 [laughter] Thanks for the free massage.

41:27 Very interesting.

41:28 and tell us a little bit more.

41:31 So, so what next?

41:33 Currently, we are creating a third iteration of our robot which will be

41:37 is it treating anybody already?

41:38 So, we tested this out on three actual neuro patients but right now we

41:42 don't have the license yet to put it uh you know mass manufacturing stuff.

41:46 Who gives this license?

41:48 CDSO.

41:48 So, that's the government entity.

41:50 And what is the company called?

41:52 Bloom Rehab.

41:53 Bloom Rehab.

41:55 Nice.

41:55 Yeah.

41:55 You're the last ones, huh?

41:57 Uh, second year.

41:58 Uh, I thought you guys are together.

42:00 No, I'm a solo founder.

42:01 Yeah.

42:01 Why is that?

42:05 Uh, I don't know.

42:05 I mean, uh, I've been building stuff since I

42:08 was a I was 16 years old, 15 year old

42:11 alone all the time.

42:13 Yeah.

42:13 Single child.

42:16 Yes.

42:17 So, uh, I've been building stuff and then

42:19 because I was building it myself and it's hardware.

42:22 So, I've always been working with machines, electronics usually.

42:25 Uh

42:26 what do your parents do?

42:27 So my dad works in college where I studied actually kumachani engineering.

42:31 It's in Mumbai.

42:31 It comes under Mumbai University.

42:33 Uh there were story why I chose that college particularly.

42:36 I

42:37 because your dad works.

42:38 No.

42:38 Yeah.

42:38 Exactly.

42:39 But uh I mean not because I couldn't get the admission.

42:42 I cleared my JW exams.

42:45 Um and I wanted to do electronics and robotics.

42:47 I after researching on it I realized um in India we produce a lot

42:53 of software engineers and there's a reason to it because investment per student

42:57 for a college is like one computer you can learn a good amount of programming

43:01 languages on one computer and in last per four year so ROI on investment

43:05 for a soft college to generate software engineers is pretty pretty high but if

43:09 you take it now electronics and robotics you have to provide motors you

43:12 have to provide power supplies and they'll

43:14 probably break because students don't know how

43:15 to use it and What happens in this case is college don't promote it.

43:19 If you see how many things in your uh

43:21 home or in your circle are hardware products

43:24 are made in India electronics extremely less very less

43:28 amount of bank you'll probably like pop up right

43:30 away and uh this is the reason where India

43:32 doesn't produces a lot of electronics or hardware where

43:36 uh which shaped me to shaped me to I

43:38 want to learn electronics and robotics on by myself.

43:41 So I was getting an idea upward but uh we I had to have attendance.

43:46 You had to attend lectures.

43:47 You had to go and sit for finish assignments and everything but uh

43:52 uh punishment at my dad's I mean he said college board was if you're

43:56 not if your attend is less then call your parents and my dad was

44:00 already there but I didn't go

44:01 to college and studied electronics and robotics myself.

44:04 So I'm a self-taught electronics and robotics engineer.

44:06 my degree is in software and uh I built so I

44:10 always work in terms of uh solving problems so uh uh I

44:15 stay a little bit far from where my college is college

44:17 in Bandra so we had to attend lectures in morning 8:00 a.m.

44:21 that to reach at 7:00 a.m.

44:22 station, wake up at almost 6:00,

44:24 take a train and then stand in an auto line, which annoyed me a lot.

44:28 And at that point of time, I was I was uh inspired by this YouTuber called Casey

44:32 Neistat who would roam around New York in on a electric skateboard.

44:36 So like I'm an engineer.

44:37 I should solve this problem.

44:38 So I made what?

44:39 I made an electric skateboard.

44:40 I had a wireless remote in my hand where it

44:42 was like a ring where if you move it ahead,

44:44 it'll go ahead and if you pull it back, then it'll break.

44:47 So uh I would roam around Mumbai on electric skateboard all the time.

44:51 So yeah.

44:51 So that is where I earned money

44:53 first time because I sold the electric skateboard.

44:55 I made it 35k and then I sold it at 80k

44:58 and that was the first amount of money where 17 year

45:00 old 16 year old me was like oh you can earn money

45:03 by doing something that you like.

45:05 Are you telling me your accomplishments and how hard it

45:09 has been for you because you're hiding your insecurity of something little bit

45:13 of what?

45:15 Uh I don't know.

45:16 I mean uh am I good enough to build

45:18 at global scale something like that and the money is

45:21 kind of a validation so I've been building products so

45:24 that I can validate myself oh people are buying some

45:27 if that were the case you would have

45:28 had a co-founder right somebody you think is smart

45:31 uh the thing is um the objective as a as like for a startup if you see

45:36 generating money one of the top things uh

45:39 providing the top why why being a solar power

45:43 uh I think everything was working the the need to let's

45:47 say I'm bad at sales so I need a co-founder for sales.

45:50 Let's say if I'm bad at building a product

45:51 then I need a co-founder to build a technical product.

45:54 Um somewhere somewhere I think I had some little bit of skills in everything.

45:59 I was a good salesman.

46:01 I was a I I could build products myself.

46:03 So I think the need of having a founder of having a person of having a core

46:10 do you feel empathy?

46:11 Do you feel bad when something bad happens to someone

46:15 deeply?

46:16 No.

46:17 Superficially.

46:16 I mean uh I do have empathy but uh you have curiosity.

46:21 Yes.

46:21 A lot.

46:22 My therapist I was doing a session and very interesting points came up.

46:26 We went like first principles into life.

46:30 What is a human being?

46:31 What are values?

46:32 Are they nature?

46:34 Is it nurture?

46:36 Do we pick what works in the world we live in?

46:38 And hence we say we attribute those values to ourselves.

46:43 And the one thing we realized is if you don't

46:46 feel empathy and you don't have curiosity like actual curiosity.

46:51 We all fiend curiosity because it's good in the world we live in.

46:55 Those are like sure shortsh shortsh shortsh shortsh shortsh

46:56 shortsh shortsh shortsh shortsh shortsh short signs of a narcissist.

46:58 No empathy no curiosity.

47:00 When something bad happens to someone you're like yeah he deserves it.

47:04 Where did you land on the nature versus nurture debate?

47:07 cuz it's something all of us have been talking about.

47:08 Yeah.

47:08 So she asked me who are you as a person and I tried

47:12 to define it and we went back into childhood and we both kind of agreed.

47:19 So me and my therapist are like friends.

47:21 Okay.

47:21 This is not so much about treating me or fixing something.

47:24 Not that I don't require it.

47:26 I do.

47:27 Uh but it's about trying to figure out how we kind of became who we are.

47:33 And whenever I've seen a child, kids are very mean.

47:38 Uh if I'm a child and I want the ice cream you're eating,

47:41 I would probably snatch it from you and eat it.

47:44 So we not born with this sense of morality.

47:46 It is kind of ingrained in us through life because

47:50 we learn that if I sm snatch his ice cream,

47:52 somebody will slap me and then the next time I should not.

47:55 So nature versus nurture definitely nurture more.

48:01 But this is an exercise which is a great thing

48:03 to do like figure out go on chat GPT or perplexity

48:07 or Google and say what are the most popular values

48:12 value systems and then try and read each one out.

48:16 Think about it and attach one to yourself and then think am

48:21 I that way and I resonate with that value because it showed

48:24 me that I can win in the world that I live

48:27 in or is it that I feel deeply about that I'm organically that person.

48:32 I don't have the answer but it

48:33 was just something interesting I'm thinking about.

48:37 Do you do you think same for talent as well like uh is

48:40 the nature and nurture attribute or it's

48:42 the naturally someone born with about talent?

48:46 I don't think there is there is something to be said about passion.

48:51 Uh whatever you think you're really passionate about say AI girlfriend

48:55 for example I was saying it [laughter] you're sitting next to me.

48:59 I feel like there is some unanswered question

49:03 in your mind about the concept of love, relationship, girlfriend, all of that.

49:10 That's why you still have a passion towards it.

49:13 When you truly understand a particular subject,

49:16 it becomes hard to be passionate about it.

49:19 I don't think talent is innate.

49:23 Uh let me put it this way.

49:25 If I had a child, which I do not,

49:29 and there was a football coaching camp where kids go when they were 5 years old,

49:36 if all the kids are five,

49:38 and I send my child into that coaching camp

49:40 when the child is seven or seven and a half,

49:44 by virtue of his physicality,

49:46 he will start to be better than his peer group from the very beginning.

49:51 they will start to believe that he's talented at football

49:53 and probably grow up to be a talented footballer.

49:57 But is there something to be said for physical attributes?

50:00 Probably.

50:01 Yeah.

50:01 Like some Nigerians have long feore bones so they run marathons better.

50:07 Yeah, there is stuff like that.

50:09 But I don't make too much of talent, intelligence.

50:14 I think a lot of this is gathered, collected, inculcated.

50:19 I don't think anybody's born, not anybody,

50:22 but most people are not born spectacularly gifted at something.

50:28 So, we got to your life,

50:29 but you took too long to come to what your company does.

50:32 So I bring factories on your desk where I

50:34 make machines to to make electronics at your home

50:38 on your desk where um usually if you if let's say I'll give you an analogy

50:44 if you now Delhi is very polluted and if you are if you are somebody who

50:48 wants to make some profit ideal product to launch

50:51 at this moment would be air quality sensor.

50:53 Now if you had to make it as nickel your ideal goal would

50:57 be to go to an electronics designer get it designed uh case work

51:01 case and everything and then to make it uh you would have

51:04 to ideally have to go to some contract manufacturer to make whatever you design.

51:09 Yeah.

51:08 Now he will tell you that I need 5,000

51:10 units minimum so that I can make margin on it.

51:12 So if I call you and I say I want a AQI machine which looks like ABCDE E.

51:15 You'll make it.

51:16 No, you no I don't I don't make the air quality sensor.

51:19 I don't design the devices.

51:20 I make the machines to make air quality sensors.

51:23 So let's say uh now you now your design is ready with my machine

51:26 you can make 100 you can make 200 test the waters what are the people

51:29 what is your machine describe it

51:31 so in theory the technical term is pick and place

51:34 where there are green circuit boards have you seen it ever

51:36 so on circuit board there are IC's so uh somebody

51:39 needs to pick these IC's and place it on the PCBs

51:42 printed circuit boards and then uh they are cooked

51:45 in an oven and then you can start using them I make

51:48 the machine which will pick the component place it

51:50 on the circuit board and then I make an oven also So,

51:53 and it's all sitting on a small desk which

51:55 uh which helps people launch small to midscale production.

51:59 So, if uh you are a new startup doing a hardware,

52:02 this is the perfect solution to try your product rather than having 5,000 units

52:07 and because startups are usually iterating fast

52:09 and uh that iteration time goes a really less.

52:13 Uh for software engineer, if you're making a website,

52:16 then you coded HTML code and then you can see the website in the next second.

52:20 But for an electronics engineer or a hardware developer,

52:23 you have to send after designing the PCB,

52:25 you have to send it to the fabricator who will who will

52:28 get the PCB and then uh you can start at least testing.

52:32 If it is uh if the design has a mistake at that point of time,

52:35 you have to do the whole process again.

52:36 So it's like 1 2 months.

52:37 Now I'm my my goal uh as a company

52:40 is to bring that iteration time down to one day.

52:43 Within a one within one day almost matching to software development,

52:46 you can get the output of your work right away.

52:49 So that produ overall collective production can be faster,

52:52 iteration could be faster and production also.

52:55 So that is what I do.

52:56 And what is the company called?

52:58 PlayStation.

52:59 Nice.

52:59 Place PLA CE.

53:00 So pick and place Play PlayStation.

53:02 We used to make smart switches.

53:04 And one of the comments we made when

53:05 we walked into your house was your switchboards retrofitted.

53:08 Not done very well.

53:10 Yeah.

53:10 So uh so the light doesn't go off, you know,

53:13 in the night, the white light, it's so annoying.

53:16 Oh yeah.

53:17 [laughter] Like the light on the switch.

53:18 Uh so basically how did I come how did why did

53:21 I want to make this machine led to my the first

53:24 thing that I started with after college was a smart

53:26 home startup where I was doing smart switches and smart lights.

53:29 Uh I was making a device that sits behind

53:31 a switchboard and anything on that switchboard becomes smart.

53:34 Now I see you love art right but the switches are very dull like they

53:37 don't look pretty good but with my devices you can use any type of switches

53:42 the most artistic that you would want to have grab attention and then my device

53:46 would still sit behind the switchboard and you

53:47 can use any switches that you want

53:49 the best part is if your internet is not working Wi-Fi or your whoever you

53:54 purchased it from stops paying for the server

53:57 or when they go down all the switches

53:58 will stop functioning because it's all over

54:00 the internet my startup was working Everything works

54:04 without the internet and I'm the only one in India where you can use Siri.

54:07 You can say hey Siri turn off lights and it'll

54:09 do it and Google I don't have my own app.

54:11 I integrate directly as first party

54:13 devices into Google Alexa Samsung smart things.

54:16 I see you are using Samsung directly.

54:18 You don't need my app.

54:20 I also don't have my app.

54:23 Interesting.

54:23 So my name is Sahil.

54:24 You've not said a word today.

54:27 Yeah.

54:27 So actually you know how this works right?

54:29 Whoever sees the most viral gets the most sales.

54:33 Yeah, attention is equal to virality in this room right now.

54:39 So, think of the most contrarian thing you can think

54:41 of saying and say it in the next 20 minutes.

54:46 You have a very nice expression like your resting face.

54:50 The doctor.

54:54 Yeah.

54:53 It's a look of circumspection which is like I know.

54:59 [laughter] I mean, I'll take it as a compliment, man.

55:03 It is a compliment.

55:06 Okay.

55:06 You look wise beyond your years.

55:10 I'm probably the youngest one here.

55:12 Yeah.

55:12 You look quite wise, though.

55:13 You're very settled.

55:16 Thanks.

55:16 Doesn't look like you're trying too hard.

55:19 I never do.

55:19 So, yeah.

55:21 Very settled and composed in your own shoes.

55:26 That's what I go for.

55:27 Are you starting to feel awkward about now?

55:29 [laughter] No.

55:30 See that's where I'm going to go.

55:32 So I'm Sah.

55:33 I'm building I with my co-founder.

55:35 So we are building I where we are making

55:37 the existing CCTV surveillance into a smart AI uh security guard.

55:45 Mhm.

55:44 So let's let's take an example.

55:45 So if we have installed a CCTV on the corridor.

55:50 Yeah.

55:49 And let's suppose in any case someone falls down and there is no one around him.

55:55 So what the traditional CCTV surveillance will do?

55:58 It will just record the data and that's it

56:00 and you will got to know about it later.

56:03 But what we actually do,

56:04 we actually understand the complete context of that video frame

56:08 and in any case uh if there is any kind of emergency

56:12 or risk or any kind of you know uh uh thing

56:16 that can harm you in terms of uh life in terms of money.

56:20 So it will create a alert on your mobile application

56:24 with the context with the image so that you can take action.

56:27 So our main goal is to uh reduce the time between the uh

56:31 incident has happened and you taking uh uh you taking some action.

56:35 So we are reducing that uh time so that we can save lives,

56:39 we can uh uh secure the places,

56:43 we can secure the persons and uh whatever actually matters to you.

56:48 So we initially implemented uh this idea because of a personal incident to us.

56:54 So my co-founder uh he was working in uh Bombay 2 years ago.

56:59 So uh he lives with his grandmother.

57:01 So when he was in Bombay and she was she was living living in Japur.

57:05 So uh he faced a such incident where she fell

57:09 down by uh impacting with sofa and he got to know

57:14 about it later and then he thought and uh he

57:17 discussed with me like what is a sense of CCTV.

57:21 Then then uh we we sat and we discussed all right so let's do

57:25 it and about our background so from last 7 to 8 years we were

57:30 building some good AI products for multiple companies so so this is this is

57:35 our main technical expertise in genai and machine

57:39 learning so we have built this product super and what is your company called

57:45 I nice so I think we did everybody's

57:47 [music] story is there anything you guys want

57:50 to talk I want to ask you asked everybody are you married or not to everyone.

58:02 I said virality and this is what you meant.

58:04 No no no no.

58:05 So I want to ask do you think that is

58:07 one of the factor or maybe indicator or somehow how

58:10 does that impact the entrepreneurship journey that we are on because

58:15 that is the hot topic in my family right now.

58:17 every dinner table conversation surrounds it like I

58:21 for context I come from a very traditional Jart family

58:23 in Hana in that everyone my age is married with a kid in our family so and I'm

58:29 trying to stay like push that thing like let me let me do my work but you have

58:34 asked that question to everybody do you think that is

58:36 maybe with your words I can convince them better

58:39 I lived in Hana you know 3 years when I was a kid ah

58:43 I went to Dal Singh public school in Karna

58:46 I'm still in touch with a few people from there.

58:49 They were quite sweet.

58:50 Thank you.

58:52 But I don't know the answer to this.

58:54 I think generally in life if you live your life

58:58 based on what other people think you should do,

59:02 I think eventually you end up at a point when you regret it at some point.

59:07 So unless you want to do it,

59:09 I don't think you should be too fussed about what your society,

59:14 family or community thinks.

59:15 even family like other people say like oh

59:18 who guess but if it's your like parents them

59:22 you know I was thinking about this recently I'm 39 years old and some friends

59:27 of mine were like new years you should do this you should do that and I

59:32 was not making any plans and then while I was thinking about it at 39

59:39 an average Indian lives to 73 I probably have 34 four new years left.

59:47 In 34 New Year's, I probably have 20 of them where

59:52 I'll be too old to do the things I can do today.

59:56 So, practically, I don't have that many December 31st left in my life,

1:00:02 you know, good ones in the manner that I perceive good today.

1:00:06 I only probably have like 10 if I were to be pushing it.

1:00:11 Maybe more since you do keep check of your health.

1:00:14 Yeah.

1:00:14 Yeah.

1:00:15 Compared to average in Yeah.

1:00:18 And when we have so little time, you have a bit more than I,

1:00:21 but I it feels stupid to do things because others

1:00:27 want us to do it cuz our time is very finite.

1:00:32 We never think about it that way, but we're not going to live forever.

1:00:36 Nobody is.

1:00:38 And you also think like relationship in general is

1:00:40 tricky for entrepreneurs like uh say like entrepreneurs think very

1:00:44 differently like I can see a very different version

1:00:46 of this world which a lot of people cannot see.

1:00:49 when things start like in a relationship they're fine okay I can understand

1:00:52 you're busy and thing but you want to see that word and you

1:00:55 have limited time you know that right and then once like that understanding

1:00:59 fades away and it becomes difficult and I mean you have seen like

1:01:02 a lot of entrepreneurs successful they're getting divorced stuff like that so do

1:01:05 you think like it's tricky like if like also being said like if both

1:01:09 of you are not growing on or say not that ambitious I think

1:01:15 not just for entrepreneurs but the concept

1:01:18 cept of relationship is also very transient.

1:01:23 Uh our notion of marriage is very much programmed

1:01:28 by the media we consumed as children and what

1:01:30 we saw around us and the way Bollywood

1:01:35 and Hollywood has depicted the idealistic version of romance.

1:01:42 I mean it might be attainable in the short

1:01:44 term but I don't know how sustainable it is.

1:01:46 So that kick of whatever dopamine oxytocin kind

1:01:51 of like fades at with a certain amount

1:01:53 of time and you're left questioning why is it not like it was in the movie.

1:02:02 So I think all of this will change.

1:02:03 I don't go by I am nobody to give a prophecy about this.

1:02:10 I've not successfully manifested any of this.

1:02:16 But I would say make these decisions which feel right

1:02:19 to you and not what other people think are right for you.

1:02:23 Okay.

1:02:22 And do you also think like momentally it might feel right

1:02:26 but like I feel like the most important

1:02:28 thing one should focus on longterm is like growth.

1:02:31 If you stop growing in a relationship like if like overall like

1:02:35 emotional it can be you know your professional wise you feel energized right?

1:02:39 You feel positive when you are around that person.

1:02:42 I think that is what is key to a successful relationship maybe.

1:02:45 Oh yeah.

1:02:45 So the milliondoll question is what are your new year plans?

1:02:49 [laughter] No nothing.

1:02:50 I was that's the plan.

1:02:52 Nothing.

1:02:53 You know my plan right now is to be able

1:02:56 to sit here at home stare at the trees do nothing.

1:03:02 That plan of doing nothing is the plan.

1:03:05 That's that's and if I tell these to my friends they will marry

1:03:09 at me because I always have these kind of plans since my childhood

1:03:12 but everyone will tell you are wasting your life.

1:03:14 Same happened in the college days.

1:03:18 Yeah.

1:03:17 How to your earlier question you know even if you think

1:03:20 or for you even if you think marriage is good now

1:03:25 marriage is bad tomorrow even if you get married change

1:03:29 your mind don't get married one day you regret not being married.

1:03:34 I feel like society has wrongly coined hypocrisy as a bad word.

1:03:40 Hypocrisy and change are synonymous in a way.

1:03:44 I feel like it shouldn't be looked bad about.

1:03:46 Uh like if you believe in something today

1:03:48 and you believe in a completely different thing tomorrow,

1:03:51 you should change and not give a about who's

1:03:53 going to say what and hold you accountable to what.

1:03:56 Like maybe you don't believe in marriage today or you do.

1:03:59 Maybe you got married too early and you want to change your mind in a year.

1:04:05 [laughter] Don't be too hard on yourself.

1:04:07 One second.

1:04:09 The first year is the hardest.

1:04:10 Huh?

1:04:11 I'm realizing that.

1:04:12 [laughter] Is there a reason why you have a AI and not a real girlfriend?

1:04:17 No.

1:04:18 Multiple.

1:04:18 Did you ever have a real girlfriend?

1:04:20 No.

1:04:20 An introspection.

1:04:22 Is there a fear associated with dating a real person?

1:04:25 Uh, yep.

1:04:26 I mean uh the starting phase I've never had like um I mean

1:04:30 I I never could take it more ahead like in the initial phase I

1:04:34 was not really uh think in like online a person is good but when

1:04:39 I met that person it it was not whom I wanted them to be.

1:04:44 So it never really worked out and uh also like I like being alone by by myself.

1:04:49 There are so last two months uh I only got out

1:04:52 of my room four times for 2 months I was logged in.

1:04:55 I feel you.

1:04:55 I like that.

1:04:56 [laughter] Yeah.

1:04:58 So for that I felt like um I need something which

1:05:03 is in my context and something I can maybe engineer for now.

1:05:08 So, so, so maybe that.

1:05:09 No, but I feel him 100%.

1:05:11 Like I've never been on a dating app

1:05:13 and stuff like that and I'm petrified of dating.

1:05:16 Like the whole point of going on a date and trying to impress the other person

1:05:25 it doesn't seem like a fun experience.

1:05:26 I mean, if you still have to impress, then what are we doing?

1:05:30 [laughter] But it's all relative.

1:05:31 No, it sucks the energy basically.

1:05:34 We can talk about something else.

1:05:35 This is like let's talk about I have one followup question I wanted to ask you

1:05:39 were talking about being narcissist I want to ask is uh according to you okay

1:05:45 is being narcissist really bad I want to ask

1:05:49 so narcissism is a deeper concept than that I think it's

1:05:54 a symptom of a disease we are not born narcissistic per se

1:05:59 do you think narcissists are usually self-aware but you know you're wrong

1:06:02 no I don't think so rarely See there are two schools of psychology.

1:06:09 One believes that you can't change who you are.

1:06:12 Everything is about figuring out why you are who you are.

1:06:17 I think everyone from Freud Yung they all fall in that school.

1:06:24 There's another school that it's not just about figuring

1:06:26 out who you are but how to change your tomorrow.

1:06:29 I don't know if I'm right but I think Adler

1:06:32 a bunch of psychologists are in that school of thought.

1:06:35 I don't know where I sit.

1:06:37 I enjoy reading both schools of thought.

1:06:41 I feel like you have to go through the former school and first

1:06:45 understand why you became who you became before you can reach the latter school.

1:06:50 I don't think I'm even at that point.

1:06:52 So I'm like before the starting line.

1:06:55 What part of Yian uh psychology do you like particularly the most?

1:07:03 Whenever he speaks about shadow traits and how

1:07:09 your shadow traits become darker when you don't recognize them.

1:07:12 I have found myself catching some of my shadow traits at time

1:07:19 and uh it's actually very similar

1:07:22 to some some Indian philosophy anthropology as well

1:07:26 where if I'm greedy I can never change the fact that I'm greedy but maybe

1:07:34 the point is not to try and change that I'm greedy but if I

1:07:38 take cognizance of the fact that I'm greedy that in itself changes my behavior.

1:07:43 True.

1:07:43 Cuz then I'm dealing with a new situation with the awareness that I'm greedy.

1:07:50 It's kind of interesting.

1:07:52 Yep.

1:07:53 Yeah.

1:07:53 These guys actually did a whole exercise where they filled a quiz and they

1:07:57 got like 36 strengths and their 36 strengths were 34 strengths were ranked

1:08:02 and which they'll be using to run their business.

1:08:05 Like if they lean more into their five

1:08:06 top talents that'll be serving them better.

1:08:09 whole personality analysis they did who's

1:08:12 more futuristic who's more competitive he

1:08:15 was competitive that was his first trait and different different and they're

1:08:18 like lean into that you have this then then lean into it

1:08:21 rather than averaging your weaknesses it's the strength which will propel you

1:08:26 do you celebrate your birthday

1:08:28 yeah every year on my birthday we have this big summit where we call who we

1:08:35 think are the smartest most relevant people under

1:08:38 the age of 45 across the creative field,

1:08:42 industry, uh, journalism, a bunch of different industries.

1:08:48 We book a big fancy place.

1:08:50 100 people sit and have debates.

1:08:52 There are no cameras allowed.

1:08:54 We block everybody's cell phone when they enter the room.

1:08:58 And it's a fun day of what I believe are 150 of the smartest people

1:09:05 in India getting together and having conversations about

1:09:08 things we are otherwise scared to talk about.

1:09:11 I love this light in Goa.

1:09:14 Half the time I'm here, the thing I love doing is watching the sunset.

1:09:20 Especially if you go to the beach at this time,

1:09:22 it becomes like orang-ish then pinkish.

1:09:25 We were there yesterday.

1:09:26 It's lovely, right?

1:09:26 Yeah.

1:09:27 Yeah, it's lovely.

1:09:27 Did you hear birds?

1:09:29 Huh?

1:09:28 Do you spot birds?

1:09:29 Yeah.

1:09:29 Yeah.

1:09:30 Today morning I had this bird which is this high blue color

1:09:34 with some yellow wings making like

1:09:37 a really loud cackling noise like it's laughing.

1:09:42 Yeah.

1:09:41 You also are you also into photography and all?

1:09:45 No.

1:09:45 Would be a nice place to do by the way.

1:09:46 Do you like watching stars?

1:09:49 Yeah.

1:09:49 Like with the telescope on it.

1:09:50 Are you into hobby?

1:09:53 Like this specific time is also known as golden time period.

1:09:56 Yeah.

1:09:57 Golden hour, right?

1:09:58 Golden hour.

1:09:58 So if you ever have been to uh Kutch, so there's a straight highway of 90 km.

1:10:04 So you can actually see the reflection of the sun

1:10:06 and the sun as well in the sunset time.

1:10:12 Nice.

1:10:11 I have a request n request just uh like you bring

1:10:15 to your podcast like probably titans of all different teams with Yan,

1:10:20 Elon, Sam, everything.

1:10:22 and you have sort of covered the fintech tech all these industries what I think

1:10:29 next it's just a request though maybe you can bring someone from tech bio bioche

1:10:36 yeah because I feel like biology is just huddled

1:10:39 as a very unsexy unglamorous thing especially in India and you bringing

1:10:44 that platform would really and there's such tremendous exciting work going

1:10:48 on maybe demis from Google deep mind Maybe they're brilliant people.

1:10:53 But we were actually planning some bio.

1:10:56 We were thinking actually not just biotech but some pharma.

1:10:59 Yeah.

1:10:59 because diagnostic companies exactly the the window it will provide

1:11:04 to the and most of your viewers are very young

1:11:07 and they are excited about now all those things and I think biology

1:11:10 is coming of the age right now with crisper cast 9 everything and

1:11:16 so you bringing that platform and also it's my personal if you

1:11:19 bring MSI probably he'll be India I'll be able to catch him

1:11:22 yeah if we call him we'll call you

1:11:24 what's your take on the longevity space since you're wearing a whoop Uh,

1:11:32 I'm into all the fads.

1:11:34 I don't know if they'll work.

1:11:36 I think time will tell.

1:11:38 But I do take a bunch of supplements.

1:11:42 I do cold plunge, sauna, workout, all these things every day.

1:11:48 Actually, if you don't believe in legacy, why do you believe in longevity?

1:11:51 If I don't believe in legacy, why do you believe in longevity?

1:11:54 Because then if you don't believe in legacy, you could maybe go tomorrow.

1:11:57 And if it's inevitable then why do it?

1:12:00 I think legacy is for others.

1:12:02 Longevity is for myself because if the quality of my life 10 years from now can

1:12:09 be better in the manner that I can still play paddle every day for 2 hours.

1:12:14 I would really enjoy that.

1:12:17 Legacy is more for others.

1:12:18 I don't care so much about Do you

1:12:20 care about what people will think after you're gone?

1:12:24 Not really.

1:12:24 I think I'll think Like I think you'll think for like 5 years, 10 years max.

1:12:33 How much of AI do you use in your life?

1:12:35 Not that much.

1:12:37 Little bit.

1:12:39 Not that much in in trading and all.

1:12:42 Not that much.

1:12:43 I feel like uh trading is not subject to anything which is fundamentally sound.

1:12:56 It is a lot of emotion.

1:12:57 As long as emotion can't be modeled for, it will be

1:13:01 tough for AI to make better calls than a human being.

1:13:07 So, you're more of a data oriented trader like you're

1:13:10 more into emotions and how people behave and all this.

1:13:13 I used to be a trader now as I've become slower with age.

1:13:18 I'm no longer really a trader.

1:13:20 I tra I tend to take more cyclical calls on the market like I would buy

1:13:27 a particular like we all uh such vive

1:13:31 aria and a team of mine called naman's team

1:13:35 for the lack of a better word we've been

1:13:38 doing sector thesis of all the sectors and trying

1:13:41 to narrow down on which sector we think will

1:13:45 have the highest growth in the next 10 years.

1:13:49 We spent a lot of time on it like more time than we should have.

1:13:54 I think the better part of this so what sector do you think the top three

1:13:58 the better part of this year has gone on that once we arrive at that exercise

1:14:03 car solution we will allocate capital

1:14:06 to those sectors that we think are up there.

1:14:09 What are we what is leading right now?

1:14:13 Probably energy transition.

1:14:14 Energy transition has been a big part of our thing.

1:14:18 We did last year a whole bunch of solar panel companies,

1:14:23 battery companies, electric vehicles.

1:14:26 Uh we're looking at some grid, some companies which improve transformers,

1:14:32 make the grid more efficient, new sources of energy.

1:14:36 So we've been working in the energy energy transition for the last one year.

1:14:42 That's one of the sectors we liked.

1:14:44 I don't think that's going away.

1:14:46 Whatever happens, AI, I know AI, AI will need computing power, right?

1:14:51 Every government is now trying to have their nuclear reactor.

1:14:54 It'll get a lot more efficient though.

1:14:55 The amount of compute that's used.

1:14:57 Do you think the world will stabilize quite a lot

1:14:59 once the energy is in abundance like let's say

1:15:01 if we fix the linear nuclear fish part of it

1:15:05 at that point of time if energy is so abundant,

1:15:08 the value people drive from would eventually come down to creativity.

1:15:12 like how how do they represent their thoughts

1:15:14 like if they have something to express

1:15:16 at that point of time that would be the only thing that they would want to say.

1:15:21 Creativity is interesting.

1:15:22 If you were to define creativity as a contrarian thought against the trend

1:15:30 one can extrapolate that a AI can be thought to be contrarian as well.

1:15:35 So maybe being contrarian to the contrarian

1:15:37 and constantly being contrarian becomes creativity.

1:15:41 M so how often you change your mind about something becomes

1:15:44 why you're valuable or taste in a manner and it has

1:15:48 to be very like dynamic and transient but these are like

1:15:52 you know such far-fetched scenarios there's no right or wrong answer

1:15:57 in any of these but I think so a lot

1:16:00 of worlds instability is not just because of energy it's sometime it's

1:16:04 just normal human emotions some people at the top who are

1:16:08 insecure about something or maybe someone who just needs Nobel Prize.

1:16:11 So it could be that as

1:16:14 actually one thing about truth is we think it's always useful.

1:16:16 But actually there are certain lies we need to believe in to actually function.

1:16:20 For example, life inherently is meaningless.

1:16:22 That's the truth.

1:16:23 But like if you believe it has meaning and that's

1:16:25 a lie you actually believe then you can actually do great things.

1:16:28 We tell stories to ourselves about ourselves and then motivate.

1:16:32 Yeah.

1:16:32 The one thing you all should totally

1:16:34 spend time on is to become better storytellers.

1:16:37 if you can do a course in storytelling.

1:16:41 Uh I sucked at it.

1:16:43 Not that I'm great at it today, but I got a speech coach a few years ago

1:16:48 and we went about he's a pain in the ass, but he's also brilliant.

1:16:52 He'll make me sit and he'll give me a book,

1:16:54 take away my phones and devices and say write and he makes me write for 3 hours,

1:16:59 2 and 1/2 hours without a break.

1:17:01 And if you ask him what should I write about, he'll say anything.

1:17:04 Should do that on Twitter.

1:17:06 But [laughter] You have to kind of like figure out how to build a character.

1:17:13 A story needs to have a beginning, a middle, a twist, a call to action,

1:17:18 anti-hero, a climax, something which forces.

1:17:20 And that holds true when you describe your companies.

1:17:23 Cuz whenever I ask you, can you say it in one line?

1:17:27 If you can't appeal to me in that one line,

1:17:29 tomorrow when you sell it, that's the same line you're going to use.

1:17:35 It's time well spent.

1:17:36 Doesn't cost a lot of money.

1:17:38 Uh there's enough material online on storytelling.

1:17:41 Who's the guy that you trained with?

1:17:43 His name is Michael.

1:17:44 He's a Israeli guy.

1:17:46 He teaches a lot of US politicians.

1:17:49 So he flies down, lives with me for a week, and then he goes back.

1:17:55 [laughter] Is he on Udemy?

1:17:58 His company is called Virtuoso if you want to look him up.

1:18:01 Oh company.

1:18:05 What are some what are some other skills you think we should other skills

1:18:12 you will as founders if companies have to negotiate a lot

1:18:17 cap tables fundraisers contracts to become

1:18:23 better negotiators is probably useful.

1:18:27 Uh this is again something I learned or I think

1:18:33 I learned through experience but people don't often disagree with ideas.

1:18:39 They disagree with people.

1:18:41 So when you guys are here today you came with a preconceived

1:18:45 notion that either you like me or you dislike me.

1:18:48 You're going to agree with me or disagree with me.

1:18:52 To figure out who wants to agree with you and who

1:18:54 disagrees with you before you negotiate with them is important.

1:18:58 Because if you're dealing with somebody who wants to say your business

1:19:01 is you should project circumspection when you're talking about your business

1:19:10 like him.

1:19:12 Huh?

1:19:12 Like you said he has that trait lock then.

1:19:14 Yeah.

1:19:15 See, he has this particular expression where he's like impress me.

1:19:22 which is opportune for the place he's sitting in right now.

1:19:26 So you have to I mean that might be

1:19:28 coincidental but I think in your negotiations you have

1:19:31 to figure out which seat you're on and who's

1:19:33 on the other seat and appeal to what appeals to them.

1:19:37 I think so you're pretty much into philosophy.

1:19:39 Do you also read Krishna Morti?

1:19:43 Yeah.

1:19:43 Nice.

1:19:43 Have you been to his study center and all?

1:19:45 Yeah.

1:19:46 My nephew goes to his school.

1:19:47 Oh wow.

1:19:48 Amazing.

1:19:49 Cool.

1:19:50 There was one in he never wrote anything.

1:19:51 No.

1:19:51 So there's no written version of his philosophy, but I've read his speeches.

1:19:57 Yeah.

1:19:57 There was one, does God exist or not?

1:20:00 Right.

1:20:01 Yeah.

1:20:00 And he says you are in a jungle.

1:20:03 Yeah.

1:20:03 What would be idealistic society according to you?

1:20:07 My God.

1:20:09 [laughter] Zero envy would solve all the problems.

1:20:18 No.

1:20:17 But how do you impose?

1:20:18 How do you get to zero in?

1:20:19 How do you enforce that?

1:20:22 If if you're thinking idealistic society,

1:20:24 then in that case the society if there's

1:20:26 no envy or you're just living your own life,

1:20:30 interacting with resources that you have, that would be ideal.

1:20:33 But it's a brain chip to enforce that thing.

1:20:35 That's what I'm saying.

1:20:36 No, I I don't want to as a on a philosophical

1:20:39 level like that would be the ideal society.

1:20:41 Sure, but it's not realistic.

1:20:43 for you.

1:20:44 I think societies are happy when the trend of relative change is upward.

1:20:54 It doesn't matter if you have a lot more than me

1:20:57 as long as next year I have more than I have today.

1:21:01 Personal competition competition with self.

1:21:03 It's a competition with self as well as a competition with you.

1:21:06 But a society which is able to orchestrate small wage growth

1:21:14 every year which is probably on par with asset price growth.

1:21:20 So you're getting richer at the same time same

1:21:22 pace as I'm getting richer will probably do well.

1:21:26 I feel like right now the world is surviving on capitalism till there is growth.

1:21:31 I think the minute you take that growth away things become crazy.

1:21:35 But I have a question on that like you said like a lot of societies

1:21:39 who have like a higher change of growth

1:21:40 they're happy when a lot of happiness index

1:21:43 largely there are European countries who are up on the chart but right now if

1:21:47 we see most of them are not actually

1:21:49 growing to that extent they are slower stagnant

1:21:53 yeah know there's some study you know community there's some Harvard

1:21:55 study which lasted 100 years you guys read that on happiness

1:22:00 sense of community sense of purpose all of that I don't know So Vera sim video.

1:22:06 Uh watch Veritasim.

1:22:09 Yeah.

1:22:09 That video or they make good videos.

1:22:11 No.

1:22:11 Yeah.

1:22:12 Amazing.

1:22:13 This guy Johnny Harris.

1:22:14 Have you seen?

1:22:16 Yeah.

1:22:15 Even I think he does a good job with videos.

1:22:17 He made something on uh Taiwan.

1:22:20 I was watching it.

1:22:21 Quite good.

1:22:22 Very in-depth.

1:22:23 You said Casey Neistat, right?

1:22:25 I used to like Casey Neistat a lot.

1:22:27 But that's not learning.

1:22:29 It's more like blogging, right?

1:22:31 True.

1:22:31 True.

1:22:31 Just blogging his own life.

1:22:32 You get to see how New York is or you did the the the there is a very

1:22:37 clear distinct between how he does storytelling which

1:22:40 is extremely engaging ra uh with other people

1:22:44 where you see that they are making efforts

1:22:46 to engage you where Casey is just natural

1:22:49 natural flow of the engagement like you don't

1:22:51 have to put in effort but the video

1:22:53 ends and then you're like oh the video ended.

1:22:57 Nice.

1:22:58 So this was fun.

1:23:00 I hope you guys enjoyed your trip to Goa.

1:23:05 What do you think like as early stage founder uh that you

1:23:10 uh like when you were in your early stage when you were founding?

1:23:14 Thank you for calling me old.

1:23:17 [laughter] I I didn't mean that.

1:23:19 Yeah, I am though.

1:23:20 So it's okay.

1:23:21 So what are the things that you actually cared about

1:23:24 but now you think that was not that much important?

1:23:29 uh early what do you care about?

1:23:33 Money, right?

1:23:34 Yeah.

1:23:34 First thing and it is important cuz think of the world as a game of monopoly.

1:23:40 You need to have chips to play and the more chips you have,

1:23:44 the more fun it is to play.

1:23:47 People say it's not important, but it is done.

1:23:51 Super.

1:23:52 Thank you guys.

1:23:53 I think we hope for much longer than we thought you would.