Valerie Bertinelli (Full Episode) | Where Everybody Knows Your Name

0:00 As we said earlier, we we've never met each other,

0:03 which is really possible because you've been doing this how many decades?

0:10 Well, did some movies and stuff before, but Cheers started in' 82.

0:17 Yeah.

0:16 God, One Day at a Time was still on when Cheers came on.

0:20 Yeah.

0:20 That's I don't remember that.

0:23 Yeah.

0:23 That's crazy.

0:24 Norman Lear.

0:26 Norman,

0:26 your mentor.

0:27 Yes.

0:27 I was very lucky that that I was able to be that young in a business that harsh,

0:33 which also has its good moments,

0:35 but but I was protected by Norman and Bonnie and Pat and everybody there.

0:41 Yeah.

0:40 So, that was really nice.

0:41 But that's crazy.

0:42 I know.

0:43 I know.

0:43 It really is.

0:44 So, a lot.

0:45 Wait, what year was that?

0:46 Tell me.

0:47 75 that we premiered.

0:48 Yeah.

0:49 So, it's been 50 years.

0:51 I love somebody sizably younger than me has

0:54 has a sizably longer career than I do.

0:59 No.

0:59 Yeah.

0:59 Yeah.

1:00 No.

1:00 Yeah.

1:00 Well, how old are you?

1:03 78.

1:02 Oh, okay.

1:03 65.

1:04 I'll be 66.

1:05 That's sizable.

1:06 It's not sizable.

1:07 It's 13 years.

1:08 Oh, yeah.

1:10 It's a generation.

1:11 It's Yeah.

1:11 We wouldn't have gone to the same high school.

1:13 I kind of put that Well, my first husband was five years older than me,

1:16 and I never thought that was odd.

1:17 So, five isn't that much.

1:18 But there will be many similarities in things.

1:23 Yes, we've worked with a lot of the same people but have never

1:25 Wait, Jimmy Burroughs you mentioned.

1:27 I I love Jimmy Burrows because I just adore him.

1:31 No director better of multiple times.

1:32 Yes.

1:33 On which

1:34 a couple different pilots.

1:36 I don't think I ever got to go to series

1:38 with him in anything but very a lot of pil a lot.

1:42 What's a lot?

1:44 Um, I'm

1:45 But I I love what I love about Jimmy is

1:48 because I I don't like I Please don't kiss my ass.

1:51 That's all I ask.

1:52 Tell me what you want when you want it and and where you want it.

1:56 Yeah.

1:56 Just don't you know I know what the words are.

1:58 I'm going to stick to the script because the writers are brilliant

2:01 and he is that way.

2:03 And and if he doesn't like something, he No, try that again.

2:06 I know.

2:06 He just I wish he would blow some smoke sometimes.

2:09 He can be

2:11 people who don't know him go, he's so grumpy.

2:13 He's not grumpy.

2:13 He's not grumpy at all.

2:14 Cream puff.

2:15 He's a Oh, he's the softest little open bleeding heart.

2:18 Yeah.

2:19 When he he directed Don't tell Jimmy I said that though.

2:22 Yes, I will.

2:22 He doesn't listen to anything I do after Cheers.

2:25 He you know he created me.

2:27 So that's it.

2:29 After that, slam the door.

2:31 Uh, but he I would perform I realized in hindsight

2:36 that I performed for Jimmy and if Jimmy wasn't there directing,

2:41 I was almost at a loss on how to play Sam Malone.

2:45 It was literally

2:49 really

2:48 I felt like it was at least co-created by Jimmy.

2:52 My performances, I mean, obviously the show was co co-created, but Right.

2:57 But but after a while, I mean, it was in your bones.

3:00 No, I mean there was such a ease and a and a lz

3:05 fair about Sam that was just so easy and fun to watch.

3:09 After a few years, when I look at the early I feel like I didn't get it

3:13 till about the third year because I was

3:15 playing somebody who was a relief pitcher, very cocky.

3:20 Uh relief pitchers go in to save the day.

3:23 You think Sam was cocky?

3:25 He was supposed to be.

3:26 Oh, cuz you made him so lovable.

3:29 That was the great part about the writing.

3:30 If you were a cocky, bar hopping frat brat, you loved Sam Malone.

3:35 If you were uh very much in the women's movement,

3:38 you also loved Sam Malone because he was so clearly off base.

3:44 So clearly wrong, you know.

3:47 Anyway, back to you.

3:49 As one does when you have a podcast and you haven't

3:52 met somebody or they're not in your life, you binge them.

3:55 I binged you for Yeah.

3:57 I'm sorry.

3:58 No, it was I am so glad I did.

4:02 Let me give a headline for what I I'm almost in tears by you in your life.

4:08 My headline for the for this day in my head is a phrase my mother used to say

4:14 to me when people would ask her what does

4:17 she hope for her children, my sister and I.

4:20 that I I hope that they become fully human, which is a big phrase.

4:27 Sounds kind of easy on surface, but fully human.

4:32 And I I feel like after just barely skimming the surface of your book,

4:37 of your life, uh that that is the journey you're on.

4:42 And

4:43 that's our whole purpose.

4:44 Our life's p purpose is to learn to love to be to feel what it is to be a human.

4:50 That's how we're so lucky to be here

4:52 to to experience being a human to experience

4:57 and I'm just coming to this in these late years is the pain and the challenges

5:04 and the the difficulties and the that's all a part of the human experience.

5:10 And without that the joy is blunted or numbed there.

5:15 The numb is so the the joy is so much more

5:19 powerful because of the challenges that we all get to go through.

5:22 Yeah.

5:23 One last thing before we start talking.

5:26 Um, I also want to give a a shout out

5:29 to Drew Barrymore because I watched the show where you,

5:34 you know, you were the book was coming out and I think it was the first time you

5:38 talked in a big way about the book and uh, God bless her.

5:42 She hums one of the sweetest notes in show business, you know.

5:49 It is it is truly a caring, loving, up, joyful note.

5:54 And that's her.

5:56 Yeah.

5:56 She embodies all of that.

5:59 Yeah.

5:58 She is purely that.

5:59 Oh, thank you.

6:00 So do you.

6:00 And and it was fun to watch the two of you who are clearly mates.

6:04 I adore her.

6:06 Yeah.

6:06 Yeah.

6:06 And it's so strange to be able to be on this her show.

6:10 Um because for the longest time I was always a very big fan

6:14 and I remember a long long long time ago before Even Ever After came out,

6:19 which is one of my favorite movies of hers.

6:21 um maybe even of all um I just was like I would love to be

6:27 her mother and I'm only 15 years

6:29 older than her but that's a possibility possible

6:32 you know it's always a possible possibility I

6:34 mean my mom was 17 when she got pregnant

6:36 so um but I I just had a a feeling about her that I just and I

6:42 I I was so happy to be right because I always I want to believe the best

6:49 in people all the That's that's what's kept

6:52 me in some very um stupid relationships unfortunately.

6:57 But I don't want to give that part of me up.

7:00 And for the most part, I've been proven right that that people do that they they

7:06 deserve grace and they deserve because they really are naturally good.

7:11 The few times that I've been proven

7:12 wrong has been incredibly painful, but great lessons.

7:15 Yeah.

7:16 And you don't Yes.

7:17 And you do not want to give that up because no,

7:21 that's why I keep a tattoo that is just like keep my heart open at all times.

7:25 I mean, I listen to my sister pray for political figures that drive me up.

7:32 That's a hard one.

7:34 I know.

7:35 I mean, I'm praying for something, but it ain't,

7:37 you know, I'm praying for a headline right now.

7:39 I know.

7:39 But she, you know,

7:40 I'm I'm I don't drink anymore, but I'll open a bottle of champagne.

7:44 But it's so hard to be, you know, God bless her.

7:48 I know.

7:48 I know.

7:49 Bless her.

7:49 But there's something about

7:51 maybe praying that they'll stop hurting so many people.

7:56 Yes.

7:56 That's the prayer.

7:57 Yes.

7:57 Exactly.

8:01 Meanwhile, the real work is what you've been doing in life.

8:06 Really?

8:06 I mean, you can't we can't control everything around us,

8:09 but you can control what it is you're behavior and your own actions.

8:12 Yeah.

8:13 I don't know where you do you want to start on the book.

8:15 I mean there's so many things uh to talk about with you.

8:19 I have been around a very very long time.

8:22 Yeah, you're rubbing in my face now.

8:24 Your career is longer and more barely.

8:28 I started when I was like 12.

8:30 So yeah.

8:31 Well, how old were you when you started?

8:33 Oh lord.

8:34 23 24 2.

8:36 So you know I got 11 years on you.

8:38 26 something like more more.

8:39 It's going up.

8:42 Yeah.

8:43 There's so much to talk about.

8:44 It's your acting career.

8:45 I want to talk about your books, Food Network.

8:48 Um, yeah.

8:50 And now your website.

8:51 I have a digital platform now that I absolutely love.

8:56 Yes.

8:56 Smart.

8:57 Cuz as you know, it is not easy to sell a show in this day and age.

9:03 And I like to be creative.

9:06 I like to stay creative.

9:07 I love to cook.

9:08 And I I love to cook for people.

9:10 I love to to share recipes and and I write cookbooks,

9:14 but doing it on camera and doing,

9:17 you know, two-minute videos, 20-minute videos, 30-inute videos,

9:20 like I can do that now and share it with people.

9:23 Okay, we're talking about Valerie'splace.com.

9:26 Yes.

9:26 And soon to be an app.

9:28 Soon to be an app.

9:29 Now, can you put content in there?

9:32 Meaning, you can't you can't put episodes of One Day at a Time.

9:36 You can I don't know.

9:37 when we're going to look into that because all of my Food Network shows,

9:40 all of the shows um Valerie's Home Cooking that was on Food Network for I don't

9:45 know 14 seasons is on my website so you can watch all of the old episodes.

9:50 How wonderful.

9:50 And did was that a legal thing you had?

9:53 Yeah, we had to Yeah, we had to rent them.

9:56 Gotcha.

9:56 But why wouldn't they want it?

9:57 Feeds people back to the

9:59 food and he owes a lot of money because he bought Warner Brothers so he went to

10:03 Oh, yikes.

10:05 another conversation nothing's making a lot of money off of I'm not bitter

10:12 at the way this you know business is being manipulated and bought

10:15 by a bunch of rich men and then they sell it off in pieces

10:19 I'm getting long letters of we need

10:21 to sign on to things regarding that particular merger

10:26 anyway all right

10:26 sorry I didn't come in here to rile your goat if that's a expression

10:31 I am an old goat you are a goat

10:34 I'm not a goat Yes, you are.

10:36 I mean, I've seen your shows.

10:38 Yes, you are.

10:44 Leonard DiCaprio.

10:44 He's been very supportive of everything I've ever done in ocean advocacy.

10:48 And he once said to me, uh, you're the goat.

10:52 And I thought, what?

10:54 Why would you say that?

10:55 I am old.

10:56 But then I kind of walked away depressed.

10:58 And he was giving me this great compliment.

11:00 Um, you sound like Merryill Streep because Meyer Street

11:03 was told that she's the goat and she's like,

11:04 "Why is everyone calling me a goat?

11:07 It's like the greatest of all time." The little chin hairs.

11:11 Um, okay.

11:12 All right.

11:12 So, back.

11:13 You notice that I'm just like I definitely like squirrel.

11:16 So, I apologize for that.

11:17 We can go off on all kinds of different Don't you love that phrase squirrel?

11:22 Squirrel.

11:22 Yes.

11:22 That movie was so good.

11:24 Oh, it is.

11:25 Oh, Ed, I love that man.

11:27 Did you work with him?

11:28 I did.

11:29 Tell me.

11:29 I'm sorry.

11:29 I should not Edner.

11:31 Yeah, but no.

11:31 Where?

11:32 Oh, on on Hot in Cleveland.

11:35 Hot in Cleveland.

11:36 Jumping around.

11:36 But what a wonderful show that is.

11:38 And all right, let's talk about Ed.

11:40 Let's talk about Betty.

11:42 Jane Lee, Wendy Malik.

11:44 I mean, icons, all three of them.

11:46 And it was I' I've often said, "Oh,

11:48 I hope I get to do another Cheers moment or something so that I can really go,

11:54 oh, I this is special." And celebrate it.

11:56 And you did the same thing.

11:58 And that was kind of your I look where I am and I'm gonna soak it all up.

12:03 I knew and this was a big like jump in maturity

12:07 I think for me um in knowing this doesn't happen a lot.

12:12 Okay.

12:13 It happened with One Day at a Time which was decades before this.

12:16 I I started Hot in Cleveland in 2010 and um in fact we

12:21 shot the ad campaign on my 50th birthday which is like the best.

12:25 I love working when I'm on my birthday.

12:28 Um, but I knew you don't get to work with Betty White every day.

12:34 I had known Jane for 20 years by that time and she was

12:36 a very good friend and I never got a chance to work with her.

12:39 Really good actor.

12:40 Oh, she's so good.

12:41 And Wendy, who is brilliant at everything she does and she can

12:47 play anything and she lives on a ranch in Tanga with her horses.

12:51 I mean, she's just like,

12:51 and she plays these prissy little I I just I adore these women.

12:55 So, I knew every day when I woke up, I went, I get to go to work.

12:59 I knew to live in that.

13:01 And I did.

13:02 I lived in the moment and I'm so grateful.

13:04 I still miss it.

13:05 Yeah.

13:06 Do you have Betty White stories?

13:08 I love our Betty.

13:09 Oh, God.

13:10 I'm I wish I'll go first.

13:12 I'll go first.

13:12 Maybe it'll

13:14 animals.

13:15 Dear Lord, animals.

13:16 It was better.

13:17 She liked them better than humans.

13:20 Yes.

13:20 with probably some reason in there.

13:23 But we Mary was working with her in the proposal.

13:25 I love your wife, by the way.

13:27 Thank you.

13:27 God, she's so good.

13:28 One of my favorite movies is Elf, and she is because of her.

13:31 She's so good in it.

13:33 Anyway,

13:35 love you, Valerie.

13:36 I love you.

13:36 Anyone who loves my wife just goes right in my estimation.

13:41 Yes, I love her voice.

13:42 And she can't get arrested doing voice work.

13:45 What the hell is that about?

13:46 Anyway,

13:47 are people crazy?

13:48 They're crazy.

13:50 She's got the most gorgeous voice.

13:51 Okay,

13:52 let's soo ourselves.

13:53 Yes, let's soo ourselves again with Betty.

13:55 So, we were in uh I can't remember the Northshore above Boston

14:00 and but close enough to Boston we could go to the aquarium and Betty said,

14:04 "What are you guys doing this weekend?" Because she was

14:06 so active and I think she and Mary get along great.

14:10 So, we went, "Well, we have to do something with Betty." And she said,

14:14 "Let's go to the aquarium." So, oh, I was hoping for naps and a lazy day.

14:19 And off we go.

14:21 And uh together, Mary and I draw some attention.

14:26 Not not rockstar stuff, but we're recognized as actors.

14:30 We blended into the background because of Betty.

14:34 People adored Betty.

14:37 She scampered up and downstairs.

14:39 We went behind the scenes.

14:41 We shook hands with every critter.

14:42 She gets excited.

14:44 Ah yeah,

14:46 her energy is just she's the one who got the best animal story I have

14:51 is we went behind the scenes and there was an octopus

14:56 and they were telling the story the people

14:58 behind the scenes of the aquarium of they they

15:01 had some very valuable fish in the tank

15:03 across the aisle and they would start disappearing one

15:08 at a time and they put cameras in because who the heck is coming in and stealing

15:12 our valuable fish and they watched the next night

15:16 as this octopus waits for the This is absolutely true.

15:21 Waits for the lights to go off.

15:23 A tentacle pushes back its lid to its little aquarium.

15:28 Climbs down, climbs up the other side, pushes it back, takes out a fish,

15:34 closes it again, goes back into his aquarium, and eats the entire fish.

15:40 Oh my god.

15:41 How about that?

15:42 Octop.

15:43 Oh, see.

15:44 Oh my god.

15:46 Yes.

15:46 And sensitive.

15:47 And there's a reason I I can't watch that movie.

15:50 Oh boy.

15:51 And then now I think Sally Field has a movie coming out.

15:53 Um, Beautiful Creature Something.

15:55 Beautiful creatures.

15:56 I And I got to read the book.

15:58 But I just I cuz then I'll never have Calamari again.

16:02 I know.

16:03 Can I do one more story?

16:06 Yes.

16:05 Jane Fonda.

16:06 Mary Mary became graceful.

16:08 She scared the hell out of me, but I love her.

16:10 Oh, well, she scares the hell out

16:11 of everybody because there's there's no quarter.

16:15 No,

16:15 you know, you either jump up and save

16:17 the world or you're in, you know, and smoke.

16:19 And she's right.

16:20 Uh she's my hero actually,

16:22 but she uh we're they're making a book club two in Rome

16:28 and the producers think everybody else plus I'm Mary's plus one and we sit

16:34 down and the chef comes up and says this is what we're having

16:38 in this lovely Italian accent and then includes octopus for the first course.

16:44 up bolts.

16:46 Jane takes them around the corner and just

16:48 gives them a dressing down and flusters

16:51 them to I mean she will go anywhere and do anything to make her point.

16:55 I love those balls.

16:56 I know.

16:57 I want balls like that.

16:58 Okay, I'm getting Betty White.

17:00 Betty.

17:00 Um Ed Asner.

17:03 Was he a regular?

17:05 No.

17:05 No.

17:05 We had the most amazing guest stars.

17:10 Carl Reiner.

17:11 I I mean Carl was her love interest for the first

17:14 season or two and he was just and I was smart enough

17:18 to get all of their autographs on the cover of the script.

17:21 So in my hallway of my house I have so many scripts from Hot in Cleveland

17:26 and they've all got people's autographs all over them.

17:29 I'm so happy I did that.

17:30 Of course now I can't tell who's who

17:33 because I should have put a plaque of who

17:34 because nobody I mean everything except I can see Carl's.

17:38 Carl's is very clear.

17:39 Anyway, um

17:41 because of the scribbly handwriting, you can't tell.

17:43 Scribbly handwriting.

17:43 I can't tell.

17:44 Yeah.

17:46 What does your autograph look like?

17:47 Does it look like Ted Dansen?

17:50 It looks like Ted.

17:53 There's no an S.

17:55 I'm pretty good at mine.

17:56 Tell my my legal signature because my legal name is Edward Bridge Dancing III.

18:02 You don't want to just be catch.

18:04 So you couldn't It looks like an art piece.

18:07 It looks like I can't duplicate it, you know.

18:11 Each time it's just So do it.

18:14 Anyway, did you ever practice your autograph when you were little?

18:18 No.

18:18 No.

18:18 Okay.

18:19 No.

18:19 Oh, you were planning ahead, weren't you?

18:21 I was a baby, so yeah, it's like, "Oh, this is fun." You know,

18:25 it might obviously our handwriting changes through the years.

18:29 You you finished you finished one day at a time.

18:33 Mhm.

18:33 Was that abrupt by the way?

18:34 Did you get

18:35 No, we kind of had a warning because we

18:36 finished after nine years and I think Bonnie was tired.

18:40 I think a lot of people were tired.

18:42 It was a lot of shows.

18:44 20 and something shows.

18:45 How many seasons?

18:46 208 out of 209 is what they say you did.

18:49 Yes, I do.

18:50 You did?

18:51 Yes.

18:52 cuz there was one episode we were we were on we were on hiatus and I

18:59 was newly married at this time pretty newly

19:02 married I got married in 81 so this is newly married to

19:05 to Edward Van Halen Edward Van Halen

19:07 who is the father of my son Wolf Gang Van Halen who is the mammoth yes

19:14 yes yes my son I'm so proud of my son so um they were going to South America

19:19 and I wanted to go and part of it was

19:22 on one of our hiatuses and then the other part

19:24 I should have been back for work but I begged

19:26 them can I please go so I can go to South

19:27 America for two weeks and I did so they were

19:30 great so there was one episode that I was not

19:32 in that they I think they focused on Glenn Scarpelli

19:34 who played my little sort of brother in the show right

19:38 and I'm glad I did although while I was in was it Sa Paulo or Rio um

19:45 that's an lovely thing to be able to question

19:49 I don't remember but um It was the early '8s.

19:52 I don't remember a lot about the '8s, but I do remember this story.

19:55 So, um, Ed and Al, his brother, had gone downstairs and we,

19:59 um, Ed's Al's wife at the time, had, um,

20:02 said, "Let's go down and join them." So,

20:03 we go down to join them, and then we're at the bar, whatever.

20:06 And then the boys go back upstairs.

20:08 And we said, "Okay, we'll join you later." And we were having fun at the bar.

20:11 Um, Valerie, her name was his first wife.

20:15 Um, and I go to the elevator to go

20:17 up to the room and they're like, "No, no, why?

20:22 What's what's happening?

20:23 Why can't we go up?" "No, no, no,

20:24 no." And they were trying to tell us

20:26 that prostitutes aren't allowed on the upper floors.

20:30 And my son, no, no, I have a wedding room.

20:32 And at that point when I was traveling, I wouldn't wear my actual wedding ring.

20:35 I just got like fake from whatever movie I did.

20:38 They would not let me up.

20:39 I had to leave the elevator,

20:41 get on the phone because there were no cell phones

20:43 in the early '8s and call Ed in the room and said,

20:45 "Can you come down and get me?" Because they won't let me up.

20:48 They think Valerie and I are prostitutes.

20:49 And they probably still did just thought that Ed

20:52 decided to come back and get this lovely prostitute.

20:55 Come back up in the room.

20:57 Yes.

20:58 So, I've been mistaken for a prostitute before.

21:02 Okay.

21:02 To be polite, a sex worker.

21:04 Yes, please.

21:05 Yes.

21:05 um do the meat of you and Ed.

21:09 You were very very famous, right?

21:12 I mean,

21:13 how old were you when you guys met?

21:14 I was 20.

21:16 20.

21:16 Okay.

21:16 And how did you meet?

21:18 I'm Okay.

21:18 My brothers invited me to Shreveport where my parents

21:21 lived cuz my dad worked for General Motors.

21:23 Shreport, Louisiana.

21:24 They were playing at the stadium, local stadium there.

21:26 And they said, "We know these guys at the radio station.

21:28 If you come and hand all of the band members M&M's,

21:32 we can get backstage." And I was like, didn't understand a word you just said,

21:37 right?

21:37 The nothing about it, but okay.

21:38 Because it was during the 1980 a actor strike during the summer.

21:42 This was in August of 1980.

21:44 Um, you were an actor by then.

21:47 I was doing Body Heat and we got

21:50 to rehearse for a full month because of the strike.

21:53 But go on.

21:53 Oh, okay.

21:54 Enough about

21:55 It's interesting what other thing what other things happen.

21:57 Um, so I go to Shreveport, which I go to a lot anyway cuz my parents live there

22:00 and my um brother and um we go to the show first.

22:05 My brother says, "Look in the back of your Corvette.

22:08 I left an eight track cassette and you'll see what the guy looks like.

22:11 You know what the band looks like.

22:12 You'll hear listen to them because they're really good.

22:14 I had never heard of Van Halen.

22:15 I was into Elton John and Linda Monstat.

22:17 So I look at and I'm like that's a really that guitar player is really cute.

22:22 So I'm going and um

22:24 Did you like the music?

22:26 I thought it was good.

22:27 Yeah, I like rock and roll, you know,

22:29 so I really thought like he it had something magical happening, right?

22:34 Like I'd never heard anything like that before and I

22:36 love Led Zeppelin and but that sounded amazing to me.

22:39 Anyway, so we go backstage and um Ed was and he is like the epitome of shy.

22:47 He's he's like he is a musician.

22:49 He's an engineer.

22:50 He's many things, but a rockstar he is not.

22:52 He knows how to turn it on.

22:54 Um, but uh, so I met all of them and I loved all of them pretty much.

23:01 Pretty much three of them were very nice to me and um,

23:05 and then Ed I was invited to sit on the side

23:08 of the stage and Ed kept like winking at me and making

23:11 eyes at me and he would go over and like change

23:13 his guitars and we ended up going back to their hotel.

23:17 Was that Was that nice?

23:19 Was that It was fabulous.

23:20 I was like I had I was crushing on this guy big time.

23:23 Oh yeah.

23:24 Yeah.

23:24 Crushing big time.

23:26 And um I was 20.

23:27 He was 25.

23:30 You know, all the libido stuff was happening, all that stuff.

23:33 And um we went back to the hotel, we talked.

23:36 Um we hung out by the outdoor pool.

23:38 It was a motel, you know, Motel 6 basically in Shrefport.

23:41 And um they then they had to get on the bus

23:43 and they had to go to their next city.

23:45 And he said he would call me.

23:46 Yeah.

23:47 Get there.

23:47 They always leave like midnight, 1 2:00 in the morning.

23:50 I don't know why.

23:51 Um, and I still don't know why because my son's bus stinks at those times, too.

23:54 And I still don't know why.

23:55 I guess maybe I could ask them.

23:57 But anyway, um, and then he said he would call me and I gave

24:01 him my parents number in Shreveport cuz that's where I was going to be.

24:04 And he didn't call for 3 days and I was getting really, really anxious.

24:08 And then he finally called and said, "I'm in OK.

24:10 Was he in Oklahoma or Baton Rouge?

24:12 I don't remember.

24:12 My brother does." Because he went with me.

24:14 And then I went out and then by that time I was just like gaga.

24:17 And I said, "Why don't you move in with me?" He moved in with me.

24:20 Uh I lived off uh Cold Water Canyon at this point.

24:23 LA.

24:24 Gotcha.

24:24 Then he lived with his parents because in Pasadena in Pasadena

24:29 because he was on the road 10 months out of the year.

24:32 Yeah.

24:32 Um and so then he moved in with me and eight months later we were married.

24:36 A lot of bus tours.

24:37 Were you

24:38 a lot of bus tours?

24:39 Were you on the bus

24:41 on lots of times?

24:42 Yeah.

24:42 But this was a band that each band member had their own bus with Wolfiey's bus.

24:47 It's like there's no room for me on the bus because

24:49 the entire band and the crew is on one bus, you know?

24:53 So, it's a very different way of living.

24:55 Yeah, I think so.

24:56 I think so.

24:58 So then at 10 years later we had Wolfie and um in between all

25:02 of that we had amazing good times and really tragic scary hard times because um

25:08 we were both drinking using drugs in the 80s and then I stopped and he

25:13 didn't and um neither one of us was taking care of our childhood trauma.

25:18 So we had we went to therapy.

25:20 Um, we loved each other dearly,

25:22 but it just at a certain point I after Wolfie got to a certain age,

25:26 I thought I can't do this anymore.

25:29 Like how old?

25:30 Um, Wolfie was 10 or 11 when we separated.

25:35 Um, and it was hard.

25:38 To this day, Wolfie, the way Wolfie talks about it really like breaks my heart.

25:42 you know,

25:45 and then um Ed tried for 20 years to be cancer and um he did a great job.

25:53 He knew Yeah, he knew for 20 years and it spread.

25:55 He kept spreading to different places.

25:58 Um

25:58 Well, you said he was also smoking, which was hard for you to watch cuz

26:02 Oh, I was so angry with with him at one point.

26:05 We were still together and he had surgery to cut

26:08 off part of his tongue and the doctor said, "You know this is because you smoke,

26:12 right?" And Ed's like, "No, no,

26:13 it's not because and the doctor's like and I was like,

26:15 Ed, God, you better stop smoking.

26:17 Just stop smoking." I didn't even care about the alcohol anymore.

26:20 Just stop smoking.

26:23 It was hard.

26:23 It was hard for him.

26:25 He He used a lot of different tools that were soothing but harmful for his body.

26:29 I'm, you know, a lot of us use different tools in our toolbox

26:32 for trauma that numb um ignore any kind of feelings we don't want to feel.

26:37 And it's your brain taking care of you, refusing.

26:41 And what we don't realize is that our brain can be talked out of We can talk

26:46 our brains out of stuff if we listen

26:49 to our emotions because our emotions and our brains are different.

26:52 And when we get curious about our emotions, like while they're coming up,

26:55 we can talk it through with our brain and we can get to another side of it.

26:58 You still have to go through the uncomfortable feelings,

27:01 but when you do get through them, you've talked yourself into feeling better

27:06 because you've actually done the work to Yeah.

27:09 feel your feelings.

27:10 Don't go too far.

27:11 Back up for a second.

27:13 Well, how were you taking care of your creativeness when you guys separated?

27:21 I knew I had to make money cuz I didn't want to take money from Ed.

27:24 We put aside an account for Wolf that both

27:27 of us put the same amount of money in.

27:29 I didn't take any alimony.

27:30 I didn't take any child support.

27:32 So, I knew I had to work.

27:34 She's so smart.

27:34 My My wife Mary didn't either.

27:36 There's something very powerful about that

27:39 because I'm I'm incredibly independent person and I like to be

27:44 to a fault sometimes, but um that's okay.

27:48 I'd rather heir on the side of independence.

27:51 Um, and

27:54 so you were doing what?

27:55 What was I?

27:56 I I was doing Touch by an Angel at that time.

27:58 I got a two-year contract with Touch by an Angel.

28:00 And it was great because we had spent a lot of time in Park City anyway.

28:04 We had a home up there.

28:06 And um, in Oldtown, it was just a cute little

28:09 minor shack that had a bedroom and a half basically.

28:13 And um, I if we had gotten picked up for one more year,

28:17 I would have pulled Wolfie out of his school in California.

28:20 and um brought him up there, but we weren't.

28:23 And then 911 happened and it was hard

28:25 to go back and forth through Burbank airport.

28:27 Like I used to it was such an easy commute.

28:30 I would like be on an airplane three, four,

28:32 five times a week just to get home to put Wolfie

28:35 to bed and then go in the morning and get to the set.

28:37 Oh wow.

28:39 Um

28:39 how long a flight?

28:39 What?

28:40 Oh, it's nothing.

28:41 From Burbank to Salt Lake, it's like an hour and 15.

28:44 Well, you could really do that, could you?

28:46 You back then you could.

28:47 You can't do it anymore.

28:49 because you have to give extra time and let's not

28:52 even talk about what's going on with TSA these days,

28:54 you know, and the half partial government

28:57 shutdown because nobody knows how to govern.

29:01 But we didn't really go there.

29:02 We just kind of every once in a while,

29:04 I'm so tired of people not governing.

29:06 Jesus, what do we vote for anyway?

29:08 And no and no.

29:11 Okay, you did that for two years.

29:14 Yes.

29:13 Are you now writing books yet?

29:15 I'm writing uh No, I didn't start writing a book until I got um Food Network.

29:21 No,

29:25 no.

29:24 I wrote a book in 2007 after I became a spokesperson for a diet company,

29:30 which I have a lot of regret about because I bought

29:34 into the whole um shaming bodies and being thin for thin's sake

29:40 and not working on the mental and emotional health on why we

29:46 why we overeat and why we um use food to numb feelings.

29:50 So, I finally worked on that, you know,

29:53 the last I don't know, five years, which has been really helpful.

29:56 But I'm I'm still like there's a part of me that is like,

30:00 I wish I really hadn't done that.

30:02 Really wish I hadn't.

30:02 I wish I hadn't been one of those people.

30:05 But it also taught me a lot.

30:08 Wait, how long after you were that spokesperson did you have that realization?

30:14 Um, I would say I didn't really have the realization until some of the weight

30:19 started to crawl back and I started feeling a lot of shame and embarrassment.

30:26 I was like, "Okay, I got to take care of this shame cuz it's

30:30 not doing me any good." And I'm walking around full of shame for not what,

30:34 you know, there's no reason.

30:36 I need to be proud of every decision I've made.

30:39 I can regret some and I do, but that's what I knew when I made

30:43 those decisions and I would make different decisions.

30:46 Now,

30:47 stop being ashamed of that.

30:49 Did a book come out of that?

30:51 Was that the book?

30:52 Actually, getting naked came out of that.

30:54 But, um, it did.

30:55 Losing it came out of being a spokesperson

30:58 and losing weight and feeling so good about myself, right?

31:02 Learn learning to love the way I am today in 2022.

31:07 Enough already.

31:08 that book

31:09 that was helpful in getting through my grief of Ed passing.

31:15 Gotcha.

31:14 And my mom and my dad passing.

31:16 That was really for me, I think,

31:19 more a book about grief and learning to live with it.

31:23 Um, it's more than that, but I think that's the process.

31:27 I I mean, I wrote that book in a basement.

31:30 I didn't want to see light.

31:31 I was so sad all the time.

31:35 I was getting a a divorce and it was really hard.

31:39 This one was.

31:40 And um I'm proud of that book though because

31:45 you said you wanted to I'm going to write a book about joy and then bumped into

31:49 and bumped into grief.

31:51 Yeah.

31:52 Yeah.

31:52 Which one needs to Yeah.

31:54 to genuinely the joy.

31:56 Isn't that funny?

31:58 Yeah.

31:58 To on your way searching for joy, you have to walk through all that grief.

32:02 I I you know I won't get into all my stuff but I I had a major stuff

32:07 which I started addressing before I met Mary or we

32:11 we wouldn't have even walked down the same hallway.

32:13 She wouldn't have even seen me, you know.

32:16 Um but thank God for you and for her.

32:20 Oh yes.

32:20 Oh no thank

32:21 you.

32:21 Do you feel lighter?

32:23 Yes.

32:24 And it's a process that you know they're little life's humblings.

32:30 M um are wonderful for you to finally get to that, you know, place.

32:37 But I my what I was going to say is my silhouette

32:40 and I don't mean literal physical but basically how I probably appeared

32:44 to people before I grew up emotionally and stopped being a liar

32:49 and stop before I really did the work on myself was very similar.

32:55 But I had I could not have had a conversation with you.

32:59 I for more than two minutes I would I sorry I have to go get a cigarette.

33:04 I you know what I have to go pee.

33:05 Sorry I'll be right back.

33:06 I could not sit.

33:07 What do you think that avoidance is about?

33:09 It was exhausting to pretend to be me.

33:14 Oh.

33:14 Oh.

33:15 Even though the me is pretty similar, I was pretending, you know, faking.

33:21 Yeah.

33:21 until I finally started allowing myself to be as to really go, "Oh, yeah,

33:30 I am a dick." Doesn't mean I have to always be a dick, but yeah.

33:34 Oh, I can be mean.

33:35 I can be dickish.

33:37 I can be all these things and and uh addressing them.

33:41 But then with Mary always I'm, you know, the only time we have a if she's wrong

33:48 I my my This is going to sound probably patronizing.

33:52 You get excited when she's wrong.

33:54 A version of that.

33:55 I I am I am just like a I love you even more.

34:00 Look, you're wrong.

34:01 And this is very relaxing for me.

34:03 Thank you that you're wrong.

34:05 If if I'm wrong, we have a fight because I No, I'm No,

34:11 I will not be that person that you are now portraying me as.

34:15 No, I'm not that.

34:17 I can't bear that you that I'm Oh, that's how that's how you

34:21 Oh, I I am I am that.

34:23 And once I finally go, yeah.

34:26 Wow.

34:27 That's Do you get there faster now?

34:29 Yes.

34:29 Trust, you know, and no one has ever loved me as holy.

34:34 No one has ever witnessed me completely than Mary.

34:37 So, it's very hard to sit there and go, "Well, her." You know?

34:41 So, wait a minute.

34:42 You're telling me you don't think she loves you to bits him?

34:45 Yeah, I guess so.

34:46 That's the key, isn't it?

34:48 Yeah.

34:47 That's how I feel with my family.

34:49 I mean, I hope I have that with a man one day.

34:52 I don't know.

34:53 I I've got a I'm a little I'm a lot gunshy after what I've,

34:57 you know, had to walk through.

34:58 But I definitely feel that with my son.

35:01 I feel it with my brothers.

35:03 I feel it with my girlfriends.

35:05 I feel so wholly loved for me

35:10 for who I am because they see me all every part of me.

35:13 They see my jealousy.

35:14 They see my pettiness.

35:15 They see my anger.

35:17 They see all of and they still love me cuz they also

35:19 see my kindness and they see my my heart and they see,

35:23 you know, they see all of the things that I

35:26 love and and how I like to give love.

35:29 Yeah.

35:29 So I that's Oh, it's such a an amazing feeling to feel that

35:36 Yeah.

35:36 It's exhausting to be perfect.

35:38 Oh, there's no such thing.

35:39 Which I love.

35:40 I'm sorry.

35:40 What is the getting naked?

35:43 The quiet work.

35:45 The quiet work of becoming perfectly imperfect,

35:49 which to me is my mom's way of also saying fully human.

35:53 Yeah.

35:54 And it is a quiet work.

35:55 it.

35:56 It's the the louder it is, the less authentic it is.

36:00 There are the right people to share this with and the wrong.

36:04 And I have done both.

36:07 And one is one is more of a tooting my uh horn of look at me,

36:13 I'm getting enlightened, right?

36:15 And the other

36:16 I'll never be enlightened.

36:17 I'm always searching.

36:19 And I think that's I think that's the key.

36:21 It's the people that say they've got it all.

36:23 that, you know, I'm a trutht teller or, you know,

36:26 there's no one more authentic than me or I'm like, really?

36:30 Because I I I I fib sometimes.

36:33 I lie sometimes.

36:34 I um

36:36 exaggerate.

36:37 My wife doesn't lie.

36:38 I do that.

36:38 She exaggerates.

36:40 Yeah, I can exaggerate.

36:41 Oh Yeah.

36:42 Yeah.

36:43 Um that's a better story.

36:44 Yeah.

36:44 And I don't know how authentic.

36:46 What What is authentic?

36:47 I'm the most me I've ever been, but could I be more me?

36:51 I don't know.

36:52 I hope so because what are you going to do for the rest of your life?

36:55 This is all I got.

36:57 Just post.

36:57 No.

36:58 Yeah.

36:58 No.

36:59 No.

36:59 But I'm always wary of somebody who's, you know,

37:02 always says, "I'm this.

37:03 I'm that." Like, are you do you How do you know?

37:07 Yeah.

37:07 How do you know you're a truth teller?

37:08 You never lie.

37:09 I hate certainty.

37:11 Yeah.

37:11 There is no certainty.

37:14 No.

37:14 That's the whole thing about being human.

37:16 The rigidity of my way or the highway.

37:20 Yeah.

37:19 I'm going I'm going to heaven.

37:21 You're not

37:23 I used to get so mad.

37:24 I knew somebody in my life and they said,

37:27 "If you don't declare Jesus as your born and you know your the savior,

37:33 your savior, you will not go to heaven." And I'm like,

37:37 "How?" I Yeah, I can continue to do good things, good acts,

37:40 continue to be a good person with, you know, some sinning here and there.

37:44 um and always ask for forgiveness, always have gratitude,

37:48 but if I don't just make that declaration, I'm not going to heaven.

37:51 Well, I don't know.

37:52 Do I want to?

37:53 Jesus was an amazing man.

37:54 From what I understand, from the history I've read about him,

37:57 he was a phenomenal human being that did beautiful things from the life we know.

38:03 I mean, I know when he was born and I know when he died.

38:04 I'm not sure what happened for those 33 years,

38:08 but he was a great man like Buddha was a great man.

38:10 like you know perah yogaandanda was a good man um but I have why

38:16 do I have to declare him there's millions of like I don't know how

38:18 many religions around there I exaggerating millions

38:21 of religions but maybe there are so

38:23 why nobody so only Christians get to go to heaven I don't understand that

38:27 doesn't feel very Christian to say

38:29 does it no and I'm not I was born a Catholic kind of Christian now I'm

38:34 just am I spiritual yes do I thank the universe all the time and God Yes.

38:41 Yes.

38:42 But I I get really stubborn and obstinate like,

38:45 well, no, I'm not going to say it then.

38:47 He's not my Lord and Savior cuz I'm then I won't go to heaven.

38:49 Fine.

38:50 you.

38:51 It's a pathless as so many wise people.

38:56 Yeah.

38:55 I don't know.

38:57 Is there I I think there's what we're on this earth plane and then

39:01 there's our energy and then there's someplace else that none of us remember.

39:06 But we get to come here and we get to be this.

39:08 And you'll find out.

39:09 I will find out at some point probably within the next 20 years.

39:12 Your book uh uh Getting Naked is addresses the early

39:16 trauma you had in your life when you were 11.

39:21 Mhm.

39:20 And how that informed the sexual abuse in informed

39:24 the rest of your life for such a long time and the work

39:28 especially the denial and the shame about it.

39:31 Yeah.

39:30 Yeah.

39:31 Which is not ours to carry and yet we do.

39:34 Yep.

39:34 Um, and then the shame morphs into being layered upon shame on shame on shame

39:43 by doing the things normal people do

39:45 to test their boundaries to um find their autonomy.

39:50 Um, like the 80s, me doing drugs and getting married and, you know,

39:54 going to crazy parties or just sitting alone playing Uno, doing coke.

39:59 It's like what a weird life, right?

40:01 But still things that I was embarrassed about and shameful about

40:04 and I didn't want anyone to know until I was like,

40:06 you know, you're only as sick as your secrets.

40:08 So when you start to p pile on shame

40:12 on shame on the original shame that was never yours,

40:14 it becomes so convoluted and confusing that you just think you are a bad person.

40:22 Yep.

40:21 And it took me a long time to realize, oh, I'm not a bad person.

40:25 I just some had some bad things happen to me that I dealt

40:30 with the best I could and the best of my ability as a young child

40:33 and then as a teenager and then as a you know young adult

40:36 and now as an old person or ger I don't know geriatric what am I

40:42 know that I feel like I'm a geriatric taking care of geriatrics at my house

40:46 because I have five wait your turn don't don't butt into my arena here come on

40:52 you take it first but then I think and then it comes comes to dealing

40:56 with that shame so that we don't the tools

40:58 in my toolbox to deal with shame were um

41:02 eating to numb my feelings or or drinking

41:04 or doing any sometimes shopping just to not have

41:08 to feel and now what I do is and I when I feel a feeling come up

41:13 which don't go away completely imprints don't go away they go on completely

41:17 no you're right you're absolutely right it's still there

41:20 but when I feel now I just get curious

41:23 it's like oh why am feeling that that in itself

41:26 is being attention paying attention to the feeling

41:29 and being curious about it is not numbing it.

41:33 The hard part then is doing doing the next few steps which is being in a place

41:38 where you can actually um feel the uncomfortable

41:41 feeling and hopefully give it a name.

41:44 And I have noticed this with anxiety that I am able to pinpoint it.

41:49 Where is it in my body?

41:51 And then when I can pinpoint it, all of a sudden,

41:53 just by recognizing it, it starts to dissipate.

41:57 Just recognizing a feeling that wants to be heard

42:00 is if you want to give it a visualization,

42:04 visualize your little person,

42:05 your little, you know, my young self just wanting to be heard,

42:10 just wanting to be, you know, just pay attention to me.

42:12 I'm in pain.

42:14 Then that pain starts to dissipate.

42:17 It's as challenging and as easy as that.

42:21 Did you have um mentors, guides?

42:25 Could you have done this all on your own?

42:28 I had some really good therapists.

42:30 I must say EMDR really put me over and tell me remind me what

42:35 it's a eye movement desensitization um reprocessing.

42:39 Yes.

42:40 So what happens is and there's multiple ways that you can do it

42:43 and this is for deep trauma that you've sat on for a long time.

42:46 it it pulls it out in a in a healthy um non-scary way.

42:52 Um, you can do either the light that goes back and forth and your eye

42:56 movement or I like to use the paddles that had um electrical stimulation and I

43:01 would put the um at the motion that I liked it and the strength that I

43:06 liked it and then as you're feeling that in your palms or looking at it,

43:10 you have a skilled therapist walk you through,

43:13 talk you through some tragic, traumic, traumatic uh moments in your life.

43:18 And I did that with um mine.

43:22 And what it does is it pulls the emotion

43:26 and lets the emo your emotions take a sidec car.

43:29 Like just take the shotgun seat and watch me go through

43:31 this for a little bit and talk my way through it.

43:34 So even though I was sobbing and crying, I didn't feel depleted by that.

43:40 I was more focused on watching what was

43:44 happening in my life when I felt powerless.

43:47 And when I was done, 45 minutes, an hour later,

43:52 I opened my eyes and just just gushing tears.

43:57 Um, but I felt freer as opposed to the first time

44:02 that I ever told someone that I was sexually abused where I thought,

44:05 "Okay, I've said it out loud now, so I'll get better, right?" No.

44:09 that you need to process it.

44:11 EMDR helped me process it in a way that let my emotions not take over

44:18 and just let my analytical mind walk through it so I could see that I'm safe,

44:23 that I'm I'm okay now,

44:25 and I'm a pretty fantastic human being for having lived through it.

44:29 And I'm so much stronger than I ever gave myself credit for.

44:33 Not because of the abuse, but because it was already in me,

44:36 that strength that I was able to then process it and get the help that I needed.

44:47 Mhm.

44:47 I think they use it with PTSD as well.

44:50 Troops.

44:52 Yes.

44:52 I think it would be incredibly helpful for

44:55 so many people that come through traumatic experiences.

44:58 And DBT is another help helping uh

45:02 helpful thing um dialectic behavioral therapy by started

45:06 by Marcia Lanahan who is a brilliant woman who was severely abused but she

45:13 holds you can hold two separate different

45:17 dialectically different feelings at the same time

45:20 doesn't make you a bad person doesn't make you a good person it just is.

45:23 Y and to learn that that it just is has made me definitely see that the bad

45:31 parts of me are just it's just another piece of the pie that makes me me

45:38 cuz I also have the good like

45:40 with every like with everything with being stubborn

45:44 means I'm also I can also hang in there and and have strength with being

45:51 I can also be jealous of somebody and also

45:54 appreciate what they're doing and be so impressed by them.

45:56 I can, you know, I can be petty and want to hurt

46:00 somebody but also know that that's not going to make me feel better.

46:05 Very freeing.

46:06 It's so freeing.

46:07 And the last thing that kind of hit me that was

46:09 very liberating was I had a bit of a health scare.

46:12 I'm totally fine, but it was like, oh, well, that's real.

46:17 And it was humbling and uh oh, mortality is uh it's the real deal, you know.

46:25 It's not just a rumor.

46:27 Ted Dansen doesn't get a free pass.

46:29 Love his work, but you know, and it was like and and I hadn't up in some way.

46:38 So, I couldn't go, "Oh, Ted, damn it.

46:40 If I had only Yeah, I thought ifies.

46:44 Oh, wow.

46:45 I amum." And it was very uh humbling and calming and I'm fine, you know.

46:52 Uh but it was it was I think the best thing that could

46:56 have happened to me and I'm doing some things differently, you know.

47:00 I am meditating now twice a day with Mary and it's like wow

47:04 that this I've always talked about it and lied about it but not really it's nice

47:11 and but what it's done for me the biggest gift of all you

47:14 can be curious about other people you can be you can listen and you

47:20 can be uh supportive caring you can witness them and I do believe

47:25 that that's the rest of my life is to be curious and Listen,

47:31 that's uh the best thing I can offer.

47:33 So magical.

47:35 Yeah.

47:35 But you can do that now.

47:36 You without feeling um embarrassed or like a hypocrite.

47:45 Yeah.

47:44 Cuz you did you you have you know it doesn't mean you have done all the work.

47:48 It just means but you have you have experienced

47:52 allowing so much pain to get to the joy and all that.

47:56 Yeah.

47:56 And sometimes it's the first word that comes

48:00 by is freeing to let yourself feel the pain.

48:04 Your son must be so proud of you.

48:07 I love him.

48:08 He He is such an amazing human being.

48:13 I wish that I could take credit for it.

48:15 He is beyond in spite of what Ed and I put that man through.

48:21 He is such a good human being.

48:23 He is Oh, wow.

48:26 I'm so lucky.

48:28 Yeah.

48:28 So lucky.

48:29 So is he.

48:30 He's got a good mom and he had a great dad, you know,

48:33 who had like And his dad and his mom had immense flaws.

48:37 But the one thing Wolfie always knew is how much we love him.

48:42 Yeah.

48:41 Like unconditionally.

48:42 That boy can do no wrong in my eyes.

48:45 That is such a gift, man.

48:46 So many people haven't been unconditionally loved.

48:50 They got born into tough.

48:52 Yep.

48:52 Yep.

48:53 And my parents did the best they could.

48:55 Mine, but they didn't know well any anything.

48:57 Mine were confusing, were they?

49:00 Yeah, they love but not about love.

49:02 Yeah, man.

49:02 They loved me.

49:05 Yeah, I felt the love as much as I could from two people grieving from a death.

49:09 You know, my mom was pregnant with me when um my brother died at age.

49:14 He was 17 months old.

49:16 Oh, that's he drank poison out of a Coke bottle on a farm.

49:20 So, yeah.

49:20 Devastating.

49:22 So, I was born into a family grieving a horrific death.

49:26 Some relationships don't like that's just too much.

49:30 I don't know how my parents survived.

49:33 I don't know.

49:37 Yeah.

49:35 But they did.

49:36 They had three more kids.

49:40 Wow.

49:39 That's what you did in the 50s and 60s, I guess.

49:42 Who do Who do you I mean, you've got such a moral center that you've

49:46 fought for over the years inside of yourself.

49:50 Do who who is your kind of moral do you have a moral compass person out there?

49:55 No, there's just way too many people.

49:57 I mean I can think of Jesus and Permahani

50:00 Yogananda and Buddh Buddha and all these people.

50:01 I didn't know them.

50:03 So I just read about them.

50:04 They don't answer my calls.

50:06 They don't I they don't and I'm a little

50:09 annoying trying to get information out of them, you know.

50:11 I mean Raphael, you know, an Michael the angel, archangel.

50:15 I don't know.

50:16 I don't know how to talk to these people.

50:18 Yeah, I wish I did.

50:20 I love people like James Van Pra and and you know that can talk.

50:24 Yeah.

50:25 The trouble having conversations like this on both

50:27 sides of the table is I always after, you know, talking about,

50:35 you know, growth or whatever,

50:36 I always walk out the door and step in the biggest pile of karmic poo

50:45 invariably, you know?

50:45 It's like, so what is it trying to teach us?

50:47 Right.

50:48 That's the first thing I always like, oh god,

50:51 what am I supposed to learn from this Yeah.

50:53 What am I?

50:55 Did you not teach me this lesson?

50:56 Did I not get it right?

50:58 Don't do this to me, please.

50:59 And it's like, okay, I guess I need it.

51:01 What would you call like a karmic piece

51:03 of that you get to step into and learn something from?

51:07 It's it's it's me talking about enlightenment and, you know,

51:11 and the next minute screaming at somebody while you're in the car,

51:14 God, you know, it's something.

51:16 Oh, oh, wait a minute.

51:17 Maybe I'm not so enlightened.

51:18 But yeah, we're all trying.

51:20 We're all doing our best.

51:22 Yeah.

51:23 I can't tell you how happy I am to have spent time talking to you.

51:27 Really, you are amazing.

51:29 Thank you.

51:29 So are you.

51:30 I'm just making sure you step in some karmic poo.

51:35 You have no idea WHAT I'VE BEEN through the last few years.

51:38 You do not want me to step in any more karmic poo.

51:41 Can I just have a break for a little bit?

51:42 Yes, you can.

51:43 Okay.

51:43 Just a little bit and then I'll I'll be ready to learn something again.

51:46 Just Yeah.

51:46 I need a pause.

51:48 I mean, I just Yeah.

51:50 And if you're listening to this, go back and tune in to Drew,

51:56 the show you did with her.

51:58 I love her.

51:58 It really was magnificent.

51:59 Thank you.

52:00 And we get to do it for two more years.

52:01 I'm so excited.

52:02 So, what does that mean?

52:03 You go on travel back and forth to New York,

52:06 which has been a dream of mine since I was little.

52:09 Since by coastal?

52:11 Yes.

52:11 Since Bonnie first brought me to New York when she when I was 15 or 16.

52:15 Thought I want to work in this city.

52:17 and I'm finally 50 years later doing it.

52:20 And what is that?

52:21 What will that look like?

52:23 Um, I'll get on an airplane, my miles are racking up,

52:26 and I will go to a specific hotel and stay there for 4 days,

52:30 and then I'll walk to work every morning and walk back to Drew.

52:33 To Drew.

52:34 And you will be part of every episode?

52:37 I'm part of I think I do about 60 or 70 episodes a year.

52:42 And your baby wick will be what?

52:44 um just doing the Drew's News and and talking about good news

52:49 in the world and maybe doing some side cooking on the show and doing,

52:55 you know, going to different places with Ross.

52:58 Um doing some cooking at like the food and wine festivals,

53:01 things like that, doing remotes.

53:03 It's a blast.

53:05 Fantastic.

53:05 I just love it.

53:06 And then I get to do my own cooking show on Valerie's Place and I

53:09 get to have a book group and I get to do my own podcast.

53:13 getting naked podcasting you.

53:16 Wow, that's great.

53:18 It's a lot of fun.

53:18 I like staying I like to rest really hard as well, but I like when I can be um

53:25 active.

53:26 Yeah, productive.

53:26 Yeah, I like being productive.

53:28 Thank you.

53:29 Thank you.